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A Nationwide Book Ban Bill Has Been Introduced in the House of Representatives
- Tyrubias 8mo agoIt’s honestly terrifying that efforts to ban books and restrict what teachers can teach have made such a big comeback in the US. When I was in school, we always discussed banned books from the perspective of “we used to ban things that made people uncomfortable in the bad old days, but that could never happen in the 21st century”. Obviously that glossed over a lot of nuance, but it still shocks me as an adult seeing repression we discussed only from a historical perspective make its way back into the legislature. Part of the purpose of education is exposing students to strange, uncomfortable, and even frightening ideas and giving them the tools to critically think about and even empathize with such ideas. They don’t have to even be “useful” ideas, since it’s important that students are given the tools to grow and become anything they want. It seems like a lot of groups around the country just want students to grow up to become drones working to prop up the economy. Anything that might make people question the nature of society or their role in it must be suppressed according to them.
- no-dr-onboard 8mo agoA lot of your argument presupposes a distinct lack of parental authority in the education of a child. The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime. They called their legislators to make the changes and, in a rare event, the legislators listened and are acting upon it. The system, for once, seems to be working. Both sides should see the objective value in at least that.
- rl3 8mo ago>The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught ... Can you elaborate? >The system, for once, seems to be working. Interesting worldview.
- WarOnPrivacy 8mo ago> The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime. This variation of the origin story gets a lot of play. However it doesn't address the outside book-ban groups who provide titles to parents - or who just appear at school board meetings themselves. Eleven "super requesters" — those who raised concerns about or challenged 15 or more titles at a time — accounted for 73% of the targeted books. They often referred to lists of books originating in other districts or from online forums. Some had no children in the district. In nearly 60 cases, the school district didn’t own the book the requester sought to remove. ref: https://wisconsinwatch.org/2024/07/wisconsin-book-ban-school-district-challenge-lgbtq-gender-queer-racial-conservative/ https://wisconsinwatch.org/2024/07/wisconsin-book-ban-school...
- drewwwwww 8mo agoit’s a manufactured and coordinated from the top down moral panic that you have fallen for, or are content to cynically exploit.
- mcphage 8mo ago> The way that it appears to be playing out is that parents were repulsed by perverted and strange worldviews being taught to their children on their dime. That’s definitely not how this is playing out.
- ramoz 8mo agoI struggle with the federal government's power over all this. Let the states and local jurisdictions decide. Put in guardrails so that those local jurisdictions don't become corrupted, but at the same time we should empower people to place their children in education systems that don't ultimately falter to who's empowered in the fed. You may be okay with your children reading some books. That's great, and you should be able to find the right school districts for them, and I should be able to do the same to ensure my children don't read through explicit material without any form of parental oversight.
- unmole 8mo ago> I struggle with the federal government's power over all this. From the TFA, the proposed bill "would modify the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 by prohibiting use of funds under the act". This is hardly a case of the federal government running roughshod over sates and local jurisdictions. This is a wild exaggeration to call this a national book ban.
- ramoz 8mo agoI mean, it's an act of power to restrict funding (which is why I didn't call it a ban)
- unmole 8mo ago> act of power to restrict funding Federal funding. States and districts are free to fund whatever they want.
- AnthonyMouse 8mo ago"Federal funding" is a misnomer. All of the funding comes from the taxpayers, and they're the same taxpayers. So when the federal government takes your money and then says "you can only have it back if you do X" they are not actually funding something, they are imposing a fine for not doing it.
- PearlRiver 8mo agoIn the real world each and every one of us has to function at a workplace with people from every race and religion.
- palmotea 8mo ago[flagged]
- jraby3 8mo agoTeaching something at school is not the same as banning a book.
- palmotea 8mo agoHe also talked about "efforts to...restrict what teachers can teach."
- mlrtime 8mo agoFirst, the article is sensationalist, the bill says nothing about banning books. It says the federal government will not fund any programs that promote "sexually oriented material". You are moving goal posts.
- WD-42 8mo agoWho said anything about local communities here? This would be a nation-wide law.
- add-sub-mul-div 8mo agoWhy would there be an expectation that a public school would teach biblical nonsense? That's not censorship, it falls under a different high level principle of separating that from the state. It's also not censorship that schools don't teach pickpocketing. Stretching the word censorship doesn't make your case, it's transparently specious.
- palmotea 8mo ago[flagged]
- Xylakant 8mo agoEquating both of these things is dangerous and wrong. It’s not as if these are the same things. Creationism is factually provably wrong by all standards of modern science. Pretending that the position of “we ban teaching things that are known to be wrong” and the position that “we ban teaching things that are by modern standards correct, but uncomfortable to our world view” is a large part of the problem.
- BrenBarn 8mo agoMy recollection is discussing banned books from the perspective of "people have done and still do this elsewhere in the US, but we don't do it here".
- lynx97 8mo ago[flagged]
- margalabargala 8mo agoNo. Not that you're making a good faith suggestion with your false dichotomy. Just because someone doesn't want to keep their kid away from water doesn't mean they are okay with throwing them off a boat. There is a middle way, where you teach them to swim.
- StopDisinfo910 8mo agoI deeply oppose MAGA but the idea of winning through the take over of the cultural institution - school, universities, the media - has been theorized by Gramsci followers like Marcuse and Horkheimer. In a lot of way, what we are witnessing in a counter movement swinging opposite to the heavy push for critical theory in the public sphere. Critical theory is not neutral. It is teleological in nature. Schools have been a battle ground for decades I fear.
- johnnyanmac 8mo ago> prohibiting use of funds under the act “to develop, implement, facilitate, host, or promote any program or activity for, or to provide or promote literature or other materials to, children under the age of 18 that includes sexually oriented material, and for other purposes. "For other purposes" is going to be doing a Herculean effort of carrying for the next few years if this passes. for example: >This bill includes “lewd” and “lascivious” dancing as prohibited topics or themes. I guess we learned nothing from Footloose. ---- And yes, for a TLDR on the article and the general situation of this the last decease or so: such book bans tends to be a roundabout way to associate "sexually oriented" topics with the trans community. Sometimes the entire LGBT umbrella is hit. Pre-epstien, I'd be surprised that such people care much more about what goes on with a person's state of being than the person themselves. But it really seems like every accusation is a confession.
- viraptor 8mo ago> such book bans tends to be a roundabout way to associate "sexually oriented" topics with the trans community Yup. When books get banned for containing actual sexual content, that gets reverted https://www.newsweek.com/bible-banned-texas-schools-over-sexually-explicit-material-2004170 https://www.newsweek.com/bible-banned-texas-schools-over-sex...
- yaky 8mo agoThis is creepily similar to Russia circa 10+ years ago with its "gay propaganda" and "child protection" laws, and strong government support for the church. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/11/russia-law-banning-gay-propaganda https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/11/russia-law-ban...
- vkou 8mo agoMAGA is just United Russia with a different supreme leader. The end-game is the same - a vaguely lipservice-Christian[1] autocracy. When they tell you of all the insane shit they want, believe them. They are an existential threat to the republic, because they don't place any value any of the immutable principles of the republic, and will sell all of them up the river to see their guy win. --- [1] Their actual behavior is incredibly un-Christ-like.
- whynotmaybe 8mo agoThey're fast tracking. I hope they don't start a youth movement like the scouts and name it after their leader.
- Tade0 8mo agoDoesn't have the same ring to it in English.
- whattheheckheck 8mo agoWhere is a safe place to go for this
- Gud 8mo agoSafety is an illusion. Build up yourself
- phs318u 8mo agoThe Trumpets?
- 8mo ago
- Spivak 8mo agoAnd we're finally here on the national stage. 1. Ban exposing minors to "sexual material." Who would be against that? Surely only weirdos would push to expose kids to sex and pornography. Make sure this gets challenged in court and that it's found constitutional under 1A. 2. Define things we don't like as sexual material. Obviously being gay is entirely about sex, just like being trans is about genitals. You don't even have to speculate that this is the motive—it's defined explicitly in the bill. 3. Boom, you found a legal way to ban what would otherwise be a pretty obvious 1A violation. This is the public institutions half, it's harder to swing a bill like this for private institutions which is why that's handled with age verification bills. That way it's not technically a ban.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago[flagged]
- WarOnPrivacy 8mo ago> And it is pornographic, check page 168. Just far enough into the book so that any adult checking it first might not notice and permit it. Is your position that a proportionate response is a national book ban - to violate the 1A with a law that permanently, negatively impacts millions of Americans ?
- palmotea 8mo ago> Is your position that a proportionate response is a national book ban - to violate the 1A with a law that permanently, negatively impacts millions of Americans ? I didn't know it was a First Amendment violation for the government to not give me money to buy porn. Not giving me money is ban on what I'd have spent it on! When will this injustice be righted! When will I get my money!? This issue just goes to show that liberals aren't immune to propaganda and misinformation, and they have their own problems with it.
- jeffbee 8mo ago> It is apparently intended for minors. You made that part up, and it is the operative part of your argument.
- JohnTHaller 8mo agoRepublicans keep telling everyone who they are. But a good chunk of folks keep denying it.
- xdennis 8mo ago[dead]
- adamors 8mo agoNo, a good chunk of folks like this and knowingly support this.
- XorNot 8mo agoYou're both right.
- chneu 8mo agoIt's good to remind Americans that like 20-30% of us blindly support trump and not much will change that(sunk cost). Another 10-20% support him cuz he might hurt the correct people and that's worth it. Another few percent support him cuz he's a rich guy and to a lot of Americans $$$=good person.
- gdulli 8mo agoSorry, the toothpaste doesn't go back into the tube with social issues. Interracial marriage isn't going away either lol.
- esafak 8mo agoThis is a naive take. The clock can be rewound far back.
- viraptor 8mo agoHave your seen the 60s/70s photos from Iran? https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-photos/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/iran-before-revolution-phot... It just depends how much the government wants to go fundamental and how much people allow it.
- otherme123 8mo agoOr Kabul in the 60's vs today, even more extreme change, with no hope to going back in the near future.
- remarkEon 8mo agoTrying to parse this comparison. Are you comparing the withholding of federal funds for certain classes of books to a revolution that installed an Islamic theocracy in Iran? Can you elaborate on how you think these two things are comparable? The former is "tax dollars can't be spent on books that depict certain content". The latter is "a revolution lead by Islamic theocrats installs a brutally repressive islamist regime that transformed an otherwise western country into a hellscape". You think these things are the same?
- viraptor 8mo agoI was addressing: > Interracial marriage isn't going away either But more generally, all those little book bans in various forms, explicit anti-diversity and xenophobic rules, undermining the right to vote for the specific groups of citizens, etc. add up and point in a specific direction. There are quite a few popular people who would be up for a theocracy, and a lot of openly fascist people down with the brutally repressive part. Consider how the sexual content in the Bible doesn't normally get included in those laws - like it's not the sexual content that's actually the target here... Nothing happens out of nowhere. We're at "concentration camps are accepted by many people" level at the moment. The direction of government is obvious, the speed and possible success are still up for debate.
- ecshafer 8mo ago[flagged]
- hypersoar 8mo agoThat's not what this is about. The bill explicitly defines "sexually oriented material" to include anything that "involves gender dysphoria or transgenderism".
- Tyrubias 8mo agoBanning sexual materials is such a vague idea, and the wording of this bill is so vague, that it can be used to justify withholding funds to force schools to ban anything. A book where two characters of the same assigned gender kiss? Banned. A book where the main character expresses thoughts of gender dysphoria? Banned. A book where a male character dresses up in heels and applies makeup and dances? Banned. Meanwhile the same content but presented in a heteronormative way? Totally fine!
- WarOnPrivacy 8mo ago> Ive been told that schools weren't showing sexual material to children, > so this shouldn't have any affect on anything. What specific language in this law leads you to believe this is a reasonable conclusion?
- Erem 8mo agoWhoever told you that did you a disservice. The best schools educate children coming of age on the changes happening to their bodies and how to protect themselves as they enter the age of sexual maturity. Under this bill that kind of education would be banned.
- ThrowawayTestr 8mo agoMan, anything to distract people from the files.
- mindslight 8mo agoWhat files?
- Larrikin 8mo agoThe pedo ones
- mindslight 8mo agohuh? Could you link me to some news stories, and perhaps some recent analyses of these files? Maybe list any prominent Americans who are involved?
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- ufocia 8mo agoDoesn't look like a ban, a mere withholding of federal funds.
- SilverElfin 8mo agoAge verification (porn bans), VPN bans, restrictions on 3D printing - all of these are other policies, both proposed and already in law, that make additional violations of individual rights easier to pass, because these things have been normalized. It’s why the slippery slope isn’t always a logical fallacy.
- WalterBright 8mo agoThere are always going to be fights about what gets taught in schools, and what isn't. It's an inevitable consequence of government run schools. I don't agree that it is a free speech issue. Children do not have the full set of adult rights.
- eesmith 8mo agoNo need to emphasize "government" -- It's an inevitable consequence of schools. Private secular schools have fights about what gets taught. Private religious schools have fights about what gets taught. Children have more rights in public schools than they have in private schools. Tinker v. Des Moines: "It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."
- WalterBright 8mo ago> No need to emphasize "government" There are truancy laws. Private schools can have speech rules, but parents are free to choose such schools, and so free speech rights are not an issue.
- eesmith 8mo agoI still don't see how qualifying it as "government" schools is at all relevant to the topic. This bill would also apply to private schools receiving money under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.
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- snthpy 8mo ago[flagged]
- decremental 8mo ago[dead]
- lostmsu 8mo agoAre you saying that's impossible? Can you give relative estimates?
- snthpy 8mo agoI'm not saying it's impossible. I said "which have seen zero prosecutions in the US", i.e. to date. My estimated timeline at this point is 3 years.
- Dig1t 8mo agoIf you can buy the book on Amazon or find it at your local library is the book really "banned"?
- Eddy_Viscosity2 8mo agoIf it can't really be banned, then why waste all the time and energy passing this law?
- ProllyInfamous 8mo agoControl. Virtue signalling. Because they can... [0] [0] Why does a dog lick his balls?
- zoklet-enjoyer 8mo agoThe rep who introduced the bill quoted Hitler in a speech 2 days into her term. And then she spent the next 5 years advocating for horrible, repressive legislation. Disgusting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Miller_(politician)#:~:text=Mary%20Elizabeth%20Miller%20(n%C3%A9e%20Meyer,15th%20congressional%20district%20since%202021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Miller_(politician)#:~:te...
- koonsolo 8mo agoAnd in other news, the Trump appointed ambassador in Belgium, Bill White, is fine with adult men sucking the blood from a baby penis. And if you think I'm kidding, no I'm not. Some of those boys end up with herpes, but it's all fine in MAGA land. Source, straight from the horses mouth: https://youtu.be/KolvU5m0CZI?si=KMnq_y8KfGuhXkDY&t=410 https://youtu.be/KolvU5m0CZI?si=KMnq_y8KfGuhXkDY&t=410
- chneu 8mo agoDidn't a bunch of kids in NYC get STIs cuz of this like a decade or two ago? A bunch of rabbis were biting baby dicks, oh sorry I mean performing a religious ceremony, and giving kids STIs.
- koonsolo 8mo agoThat is likely indeed, because in the interview, she explicitly mentions that New York is also questioning that practice.
- givemeethekeys 8mo agoWhy is there a federal department of education, anyway? Shouldn't the states be fully responsible for educating their population?
- WalterBright 8mo ago[flagged]
- tenuousemphasis 8mo agoYes well there probably weren't indoor toilets or the internet either, but progress continues.
- WalterBright 8mo agoIt would be nice if they would make some progress in teaching reading, writing and arithmetic.
- trueismywork 8mo agoLGBT books are not sex books. They are books with LGBT,characters doing normal things in their lives. Making it normal for people to think about LGBT people and their dynamics.
- ArchieScrivener 8mo agoWe should make Mein Kampf available, too? Anarchist Cookbook?
- asacrowflies 8mo ago[flagged]
- Perenti 8mo agoCould you claim any book with boys being different to girls breaches the sex talk rules? I'm just wondering how you could use this law to show how ridiculous it is.
- aristofun 8mo agoFinally, some politicians had some sense. Unfortunately, some of them is going to abuse that. But that what politics is - only trade-offs, no perfect decisions. Only brain ded radicals of all sides think there are simple solutions.
- TrnsltLife 8mo agoGood. Hopefully we can get a government contract with Boston Dynamics robot dogs wielding flamethrowers to enforce it too.
- silexia 8mo agoNot a book ban, but not using public funds to push a hotly contested culture war point.