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Even ignoring Musk's shenanigans, anyone buying a new EV may need to reconsider whether Tesla is in it (supporting consumer-owned EVs) for the long haul. Recen

Even ignoring Musk's shenanigans, anyone buying a new EV may need to reconsider whether Tesla is in it (supporting consumer-owned EVs) for the long haul. Recent moves, and even quotes from Elon, suggest they might not be.

joering2 8mo ago
Honestly I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible). But he knows he cannot collect billions of tax payers subsidies for EVs and then flip a switch and have factory producing Optimus bots. That 100% fraud, and only Trump will ignore it.
- deburo 8mo ago
  Why would that be fraud? Is the subsidy something other than giving the people purchasing EVs a "rebate"?
  - CodingJeebus 8mo ago
    A good lawyer could argue that Tesla must be aware that exiting the auto market would immediately crash the value of all existing Teslas because it would essentially create a sunset date for those vehicles, given how much software they're running. Good luck to anyone trying to sell a used Tesla once that announcement is made, because who would buy a car that is going to be bricked at some point?
    - wat10000 8mo ago
      How is that good lawyer going to make the case that Tesla should somehow be liable for this? Tesla doesn't owe any duty to keep resale values up.
- bagels 8mo ago
  How is it fraud for a company to change focus and start producing other kinds of products? It's not fraud in the same way that promising that the car would be able to drive itself from Los Angeles to New York in 2017 and selling people "Full Self Driving Hardware" is.
- ralph84 8mo ago
  Tesla single-handedly created the market for EVs. There are over 9 million Teslas on the road worldwide. That's a much bigger return on their subsidies than most government programs.
  - triceratops 8mo ago
    Maybe that's true but maybe it also isn't? Tesla or no Tesla, China would've thrown incentives at domestic EV makers to reduce their dependence on oil imports. Without Tesla maybe there would be fewer EVs in North America and Europe today. But I don't see history playing out very differently elsewhere. The economics are just too strong.
  - tzs 8mo ago
    Have you forgotten about the Nissan Leaf? Tesla created the market for expensive sports car EVs, but Nissan made the market for EVs for the mainstream. The Tesla Roadster came out first, by a couple years, but only sold about 2500 over its lifetime. By the time Tesla got its second model out, a couple years after Leaf went on sale, Leaf had 50k sales. It took until 2020 for Tesla cumulative sales to catch up with Leaf cumulative sales.
    - ralph84 8mo ago
      The first generation Leaf belongs more to the early curiosity phase of EVs than the mainstream. Funny looking, less than 100 miles range, and slow charging via a port that never caught on outside of Japan. Tesla didn't just build a car that addressed the biggest EV objections (range, charging speed, looks), they also built a DCFC network that has more ports than all of the other ones combined. Without the charging network there is no EV market.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible) If that were to happen, we will not be caring at all about Tesla's choices, so I'm not sure how you can make such a statement and then claim there is no argument to be had.
- wat10000 8mo ago
  The subsidies are things like emissions credits and tax credits for purchases. They applied to units already manufactured and sold. There's no conceivable case for fraud if they decide to stop making EVs.
Betelbuddy 8mo ago
quote from Tesla latest earnings call, at 04 min.. "Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."
- illwrks 8mo ago
  So no parts when they are eventually needed!
  - iknowstuff 8mo ago
    Do manufacturers tend to pump out parts for old models after they are superseded by newer ones?
    - Qwertious 8mo ago
      Their subcontractors do.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - rootusrootus 8mo ago
      IIRC, by law manufacturers are required to maintain parts and service for vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Whether superseded, discontinued, whatever.
      - afavour 8mo ago
        But what happens when Musk decides the law doesn't apply to him...
leesec 8mo ago
LMAO. do you say the same for Rivian or any of the other EV's actually failing?
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  I look at Rivian with their forthcoming R2 and they seem to be making a lot of effort. While Tesla has been milking the same basic design for coming up on 10 years now, and even removing features. I can see an argument that Tesla isn't really trying to win, they seem to be coasting.
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    Tesla owner here, I agree. One of my cars is over a decade old and I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. They're still nice, but aside from "Self Driving" the improvements in that time are fairly minor and incremental. They need an actual truck, not the monstrosity they're trying to sell. The new Roadster is six years late. Once the S and X are dropped they're only going to have three models on offer, and no matter how good they are that's going to leave out a lot of customers whose needs/wants aren't met by those three. They got distracted by self driving and let that take up all of their attention. Now they're pivoting to robots before they've even got their first distraction working. They needed somebody who could tell Elon "no" about eight years ago.
- bdcravens 8mo ago
  False dichotomy. The market for BEVs isn't limited to BEV-only companies. Most considering one not made by Tesla are probably looking at an incumbent manufacturer instead.
amelius 8mo ago
EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine. The only way to win this game is by making fabrication cheaper, and we all know that China can't be defeated here.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine This has been similarly true of ICEVs for the better part of the last 100 years.
  - amelius 8mo ago
    No, over 100 years there have been vast improvements in efficiency in ICEVs. In EVs, the curve is mostly flat. The hope is for better batteries, but developments are excruciatingly slow.
    - DangitBobby 8mo ago
      Crucially the flat EV curve puts them mostly ahead of where ICEVs have been for their entire history.
      - Spivak 8mo ago
        It's not really an ICE vs EV thing, more that "EVs as hip new technology improving leaps and bounds annually" isn't really a thing and they're the car version of air fryers. This is, to me, actually a good because there's no longer any early adopters remorse anymore so no reason not to buy one now because it won't be outdated in six months.
        DangitBobby 8mo ago
        I believe you have a mistaken impression. First, the bottom has fallen out of the used market creating significant buyers remorse for early adopters. Buyers remorse also for the switch from the previous US charging standard to Tesla's. And people are generally waiting with bated breath for advancements in battery technology for charging speeds, longevity, and capacity. Accurate or not, people are waiting for the technology to mature so they don't have an EV that isn't worth what they paid for it.
delusional 8mo ago
It's not just a question of the long haul. About 25% of new model 3's failed their first inspection in 2024 in denmark. That means they aren't road legal without repairs. That's compared to 9% of other electric cars. And yeah, they run a 4 year warrenty, so when the first inspection is due after 4 years, it also conviniently out of warrenty. It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.
- Rnonymous 8mo ago
  I was under the impression EV's are relatively maintenance free, especially compared to ICE. What are the typical failures of those teslas?
  - speedgoose 8mo ago
    The EV is usually not the problem. The suspensions don’t age well. The headlights also often need adjusting.
  - simonask 8mo ago
    They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. Denmark is significantly more moist than California, and EVs regenerative braking doesn’t wear the braking discs, so they rust, thus failing inspection. The solution is trivial (periodically disable regenerative braking), but many people didn’t know.
    - delusional 8mo ago
      > They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. That is certainly one of the issues, but 22% of the model Y's had loose suspension arms. So the brakes (which I agree is a more minor yet still inexcusable issue) aren't the only issue.
davidw 8mo ago
> shenanigans It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.
- ezfe 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
    Yet we're still downplaying it all with words like "shenanigans." The comment above didn't even get onto the subjects of election interference, MEGA or MechaHitler/white genocide.
    - mitthrowaway2 8mo ago
      When a comment starts with "Even ignoring Y, there's also Z" or "Setting aside Y, there's also Z", it shouldn't be read as downplaying Y. It's a way of introducing a secondary issue Z without first needing to write a 1000 word essay that gives due weight to issue Y and any other issues that are more important than Z. This is useful to do when issue Y is widely known and well-explored elsewhere, but issue Z hasn't received as much attention. It my no means is an attempt to downplay the importance of Y, merely to create a space for conversation about a more niche issue Z. It's disappointing to see so much attention put into replies attacking the OP for not giving adequate weight to Y, when the very premise of their comment was to create a space to discuss Z.
      - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
        No, you've abstracted it too far. I understand the grammatical construction, I'm not sure what suggested that I don't. The issue is referring to the spread of fascism in the world as if it's a little mistake anyone could make. It's disappointing to see this defended.
the_real_cher 8mo ago
They refuse to use lidar They cut the lifetime subscription to fsd They canceled two Tesla models They're converting Tesla factories to make Optimus robot I was going to buy a Tesla but now have concerns.
- jodrellblank 8mo ago
  You weren't concerned by Tesla recalling 5.1 million cars in 2024, more than Ford, and recalling the Cybertruck 5 times in 18 months[1]? You weren't concerned by Consumer Reports ranking Tesla in last place out of 26 manufacturers for reliability[2]? Or their quality control so poor that customers are buying their own delivery inspection checklists[2]? You weren't concerned by Tesla Owners reporting Tesla authorized repair centers keeping their cars for months unable to source parts to repair them, or consumers unable to buy replacement parts[3]? You weren't concerned by the worker awarded $130M for hostile work environment filled with racial abuse at a Tesla factory, after paying another worker $1M for racist abuse at their factory, and facing a class action about racist discrimination[4][5][6]? You weren't concerned about Tesla's telemetry tracking all details about every drive and sending it back to HQ to train their FSD? You weren't concerned by any of Musk's behaviour, such as his misleading statements about FSD delivery dates and abilities for years, about the sportscar that would jump with compressed air, about the Cybertruck and Semi truck abilities, about the Hyperloop, about getting Tesla to buy his cousin's failing SolarCity, about trying to get a trillion dollar paycheck out of Tesla, etc? [1] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-customers-are-taking-d-1851369990/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-cu... [3] https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-repair-parts.23739/ https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-... [4] https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-former-tesla-employee-awarded-137-million-in-suit-over-hostile-racist-workplace/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-form... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-lawsuit-elon-musk-california-b2804549.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-laws... [6] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-worker-harassment-settlement-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-work...
pupppet 8mo ago
Is any other US company making a play for putting these shiny new AI's in bots like Musk is trying to do with Optimus or has society just resigned itself to shovelling money on to his doorstep?
small_model 8mo ago
Agreed, Tesla will sell autonomous miles not cars going forward, Model Y is still the best selling car on planet earth for many years in a row though so they'll keep selling that as they make large profit margins on it (unlike every other EV maker who are making a loss)
- malfist 8mo ago
  Model Y is #8, not #1. Note this is specific to the US. If you include the entire world, it would be lower. https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-tr...
  - tzs 8mo ago
    Worldwide, the top models are Tesla Model Y, Toyota RAV4, and Toyota Corolla, all pretty close together (in 2024 it was 1.09 million Y, 1.08 million Corolla, 1.02 million RAV4 [1]). Sources for 2025 have the same 3 at the top in a close spread, with some disagreement over the exact order. When you look at brands rather than models then it is no contest. For 2025 the top 15 was Toyota with 11.3 million sold, VW with 9.0, Hyundai Kia at 7.3, GM at 6.2, Stellantis at 5.6, Ford at 4.6, BYD at 4.6, Honda at 3.5, Suzuki at 3.3, Nissan at 3.2, Geely at 3.0, Changan at 2.9, BMW at 2.5, Renault at 2.4, and Mercedes at 2.2. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-mod...
    - malfist 8mo ago
      https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-y-is-best-selling-car-world-serious-doubts/ https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-...
duxup 8mo ago
Yeah at first this was all "man Elon turned a lot of people off" and now it seems like "uh ... is Tesla quitting?". If they do end up quitting this will be the weirdest ever business story.

joering2 8mo ago

Honestly I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible). But he knows he cannot collect billions of tax payers subsidies for EVs and then flip a switch and have factory producing Optimus bots. That 100% fraud, and only Trump will ignore it.

deburo 8mo ago
Why would that be fraud? Is the subsidy something other than giving the people purchasing EVs a "rebate"?
- CodingJeebus 8mo ago
  A good lawyer could argue that Tesla must be aware that exiting the auto market would immediately crash the value of all existing Teslas because it would essentially create a sunset date for those vehicles, given how much software they're running. Good luck to anyone trying to sell a used Tesla once that announcement is made, because who would buy a car that is going to be bricked at some point?
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    How is that good lawyer going to make the case that Tesla should somehow be liable for this? Tesla doesn't owe any duty to keep resale values up.
bagels 8mo ago
How is it fraud for a company to change focus and start producing other kinds of products? It's not fraud in the same way that promising that the car would be able to drive itself from Los Angeles to New York in 2017 and selling people "Full Self Driving Hardware" is.
ralph84 8mo ago
Tesla single-handedly created the market for EVs. There are over 9 million Teslas on the road worldwide. That's a much bigger return on their subsidies than most government programs.
- triceratops 8mo ago
  Maybe that's true but maybe it also isn't? Tesla or no Tesla, China would've thrown incentives at domestic EV makers to reduce their dependence on oil imports. Without Tesla maybe there would be fewer EVs in North America and Europe today. But I don't see history playing out very differently elsewhere. The economics are just too strong.
- tzs 8mo ago
  Have you forgotten about the Nissan Leaf? Tesla created the market for expensive sports car EVs, but Nissan made the market for EVs for the mainstream. The Tesla Roadster came out first, by a couple years, but only sold about 2500 over its lifetime. By the time Tesla got its second model out, a couple years after Leaf went on sale, Leaf had 50k sales. It took until 2020 for Tesla cumulative sales to catch up with Leaf cumulative sales.
  - ralph84 8mo ago
    The first generation Leaf belongs more to the early curiosity phase of EVs than the mainstream. Funny looking, less than 100 miles range, and slow charging via a port that never caught on outside of Japan. Tesla didn't just build a car that addressed the biggest EV objections (range, charging speed, looks), they also built a DCFC network that has more ports than all of the other ones combined. Without the charging network there is no EV market.
rootusrootus 8mo ago
> I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible) If that were to happen, we will not be caring at all about Tesla's choices, so I'm not sure how you can make such a statement and then claim there is no argument to be had.
wat10000 8mo ago
The subsidies are things like emissions credits and tax credits for purchases. They applied to units already manufactured and sold. There's no conceivable case for fraud if they decide to stop making EVs.

Betelbuddy 8mo ago

quote from Tesla latest earnings call, at 04 min.. "Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."

illwrks 8mo ago
So no parts when they are eventually needed!
- iknowstuff 8mo ago
  Do manufacturers tend to pump out parts for old models after they are superseded by newer ones?
  - Qwertious 8mo ago
    Their subcontractors do.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    IIRC, by law manufacturers are required to maintain parts and service for vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Whether superseded, discontinued, whatever.
    - afavour 8mo ago
      But what happens when Musk decides the law doesn't apply to him...

leesec 8mo ago

LMAO. do you say the same for Rivian or any of the other EV's actually failing?

rootusrootus 8mo ago
I look at Rivian with their forthcoming R2 and they seem to be making a lot of effort. While Tesla has been milking the same basic design for coming up on 10 years now, and even removing features. I can see an argument that Tesla isn't really trying to win, they seem to be coasting.
- wat10000 8mo ago
  Tesla owner here, I agree. One of my cars is over a decade old and I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. They're still nice, but aside from "Self Driving" the improvements in that time are fairly minor and incremental. They need an actual truck, not the monstrosity they're trying to sell. The new Roadster is six years late. Once the S and X are dropped they're only going to have three models on offer, and no matter how good they are that's going to leave out a lot of customers whose needs/wants aren't met by those three. They got distracted by self driving and let that take up all of their attention. Now they're pivoting to robots before they've even got their first distraction working. They needed somebody who could tell Elon "no" about eight years ago.
bdcravens 8mo ago
False dichotomy. The market for BEVs isn't limited to BEV-only companies. Most considering one not made by Tesla are probably looking at an incumbent manufacturer instead.

amelius 8mo ago

EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine. The only way to win this game is by making fabrication cheaper, and we all know that China can't be defeated here.

rootusrootus 8mo ago
> EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine This has been similarly true of ICEVs for the better part of the last 100 years.
- amelius 8mo ago
  No, over 100 years there have been vast improvements in efficiency in ICEVs. In EVs, the curve is mostly flat. The hope is for better batteries, but developments are excruciatingly slow.
  - DangitBobby 8mo ago
    Crucially the flat EV curve puts them mostly ahead of where ICEVs have been for their entire history.
    - Spivak 8mo ago
      It's not really an ICE vs EV thing, more that "EVs as hip new technology improving leaps and bounds annually" isn't really a thing and they're the car version of air fryers. This is, to me, actually a good because there's no longer any early adopters remorse anymore so no reason not to buy one now because it won't be outdated in six months.
      - DangitBobby 8mo ago
        I believe you have a mistaken impression. First, the bottom has fallen out of the used market creating significant buyers remorse for early adopters. Buyers remorse also for the switch from the previous US charging standard to Tesla's. And people are generally waiting with bated breath for advancements in battery technology for charging speeds, longevity, and capacity. Accurate or not, people are waiting for the technology to mature so they don't have an EV that isn't worth what they paid for it.

delusional 8mo ago

It's not just a question of the long haul. About 25% of new model 3's failed their first inspection in 2024 in denmark. That means they aren't road legal without repairs. That's compared to 9% of other electric cars. And yeah, they run a 4 year warrenty, so when the first inspection is due after 4 years, it also conviniently out of warrenty. It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.

Rnonymous 8mo ago
I was under the impression EV's are relatively maintenance free, especially compared to ICE. What are the typical failures of those teslas?
- speedgoose 8mo ago
  The EV is usually not the problem. The suspensions don’t age well. The headlights also often need adjusting.
- simonask 8mo ago
  They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. Denmark is significantly more moist than California, and EVs regenerative braking doesn’t wear the braking discs, so they rust, thus failing inspection. The solution is trivial (periodically disable regenerative braking), but many people didn’t know.
  - delusional 8mo ago
    > They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. That is certainly one of the issues, but 22% of the model Y's had loose suspension arms. So the brakes (which I agree is a more minor yet still inexcusable issue) aren't the only issue.

davidw 8mo ago

> shenanigans It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.

ezfe 8mo ago
[flagged]
- AlecSchueler 8mo ago
  Yet we're still downplaying it all with words like "shenanigans." The comment above didn't even get onto the subjects of election interference, MEGA or MechaHitler/white genocide.
  - mitthrowaway2 8mo ago
    When a comment starts with "Even ignoring Y, there's also Z" or "Setting aside Y, there's also Z", it shouldn't be read as downplaying Y. It's a way of introducing a secondary issue Z without first needing to write a 1000 word essay that gives due weight to issue Y and any other issues that are more important than Z. This is useful to do when issue Y is widely known and well-explored elsewhere, but issue Z hasn't received as much attention. It my no means is an attempt to downplay the importance of Y, merely to create a space for conversation about a more niche issue Z. It's disappointing to see so much attention put into replies attacking the OP for not giving adequate weight to Y, when the very premise of their comment was to create a space to discuss Z.
    - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
      No, you've abstracted it too far. I understand the grammatical construction, I'm not sure what suggested that I don't. The issue is referring to the spread of fascism in the world as if it's a little mistake anyone could make. It's disappointing to see this defended.

the_real_cher 8mo ago

They refuse to use lidar They cut the lifetime subscription to fsd They canceled two Tesla models They're converting Tesla factories to make Optimus robot I was going to buy a Tesla but now have concerns.

jodrellblank 8mo ago
You weren't concerned by Tesla recalling 5.1 million cars in 2024, more than Ford, and recalling the Cybertruck 5 times in 18 months[1]? You weren't concerned by Consumer Reports ranking Tesla in last place out of 26 manufacturers for reliability[2]? Or their quality control so poor that customers are buying their own delivery inspection checklists[2]? You weren't concerned by Tesla Owners reporting Tesla authorized repair centers keeping their cars for months unable to source parts to repair them, or consumers unable to buy replacement parts[3]? You weren't concerned by the worker awarded $130M for hostile work environment filled with racial abuse at a Tesla factory, after paying another worker $1M for racist abuse at their factory, and facing a class action about racist discrimination[4][5][6]? You weren't concerned about Tesla's telemetry tracking all details about every drive and sending it back to HQ to train their FSD? You weren't concerned by any of Musk's behaviour, such as his misleading statements about FSD delivery dates and abilities for years, about the sportscar that would jump with compressed air, about the Cybertruck and Semi truck abilities, about the Hyperloop, about getting Tesla to buy his cousin's failing SolarCity, about trying to get a trillion dollar paycheck out of Tesla, etc? [1] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-customers-are-taking-d-1851369990/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-cu... [3] https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-repair-parts.23739/ https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-... [4] https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-former-tesla-employee-awarded-137-million-in-suit-over-hostile-racist-workplace/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-form... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-lawsuit-elon-musk-california-b2804549.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-laws... [6] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-worker-harassment-settlement-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-work...

pupppet 8mo ago

Is any other US company making a play for putting these shiny new AI's in bots like Musk is trying to do with Optimus or has society just resigned itself to shovelling money on to his doorstep?

small_model 8mo ago

Agreed, Tesla will sell autonomous miles not cars going forward, Model Y is still the best selling car on planet earth for many years in a row though so they'll keep selling that as they make large profit margins on it (unlike every other EV maker who are making a loss)

malfist 8mo ago
Model Y is #8, not #1. Note this is specific to the US. If you include the entire world, it would be lower. https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-tr...
- tzs 8mo ago
  Worldwide, the top models are Tesla Model Y, Toyota RAV4, and Toyota Corolla, all pretty close together (in 2024 it was 1.09 million Y, 1.08 million Corolla, 1.02 million RAV4 [1]). Sources for 2025 have the same 3 at the top in a close spread, with some disagreement over the exact order. When you look at brands rather than models then it is no contest. For 2025 the top 15 was Toyota with 11.3 million sold, VW with 9.0, Hyundai Kia at 7.3, GM at 6.2, Stellantis at 5.6, Ford at 4.6, BYD at 4.6, Honda at 3.5, Suzuki at 3.3, Nissan at 3.2, Geely at 3.0, Changan at 2.9, BMW at 2.5, Renault at 2.4, and Mercedes at 2.2. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-mod...
  - malfist 8mo ago
    https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-y-is-best-selling-car-world-serious-doubts/ https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-...

duxup 8mo ago

Yeah at first this was all "man Elon turned a lot of people off" and now it seems like "uh ... is Tesla quitting?". If they do end up quitting this will be the weirdest ever business story.