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Why would anyone care about this at all? MiniMax, DeepSeek, and Moonshot are all releasing models for the public to use for free. Anthropic, OpenAI, Google ec
by impulser_ 8mo ago
Why would anyone care about this at all?
MiniMax, DeepSeek, and Moonshot are all releasing models for the public to use for free.
Anthropic, OpenAI, Google ect have been scraping information to train their models that they had no right in scraping yet when these company pay them to scrap data we are suppose to be worried?
Labs like Anthropic always preach we are trying to build AI for everyone while releasing expensive models that are closed source.
The only reason AI is affordable at all is because of these Chinese AI labs.
- NitpickLawyer 8mo ago> Why would anyone care about this at all? Anthropic have been the loudest in pushing for regulatory capture, often citing "muh security" as FUD. People should care what they write on this topic, because they're not writing for us, they're writing for "the regulators". Member when the usgov placed a dude in solitary confinement because they thought he could launch nukes with a whistle? Yeah... Let's hope they don't do some cray cray stuff with open LLMs. Anthropic make amazing coding models, kudos for that. But they should be mocked for any communication like the one linked. Boo-hoo. Deal with it, or don't, I don't care. No one will feel for you. What goes around, comes around. Etc.
- bigyabai 8mo agoAdministratively, Anthropic seems to misunderstand politics. You don't get to wear the "people's champion" and "government sweetheart" hats at the same time, when push comes to shove you'll be forced to pick a lane. We saw it with Microsoft, we saw it with Apple and Google, and now we're seeing it with OpenAI too. You can't drive down both paths at the same time. As a member of the target audience for Claude, their messaging just leaves me confused. Are you a renegade success, or do you need the government's help? Are you a populist juggernaut, or do you hide from competition? OpenAI, for all their myriad issues, understood this from the start and stuck to the blithely profitable federal ass-kisser route.
- lumost 8mo agoAlso - how can this be prevented? the AI labs can't seriously expect that each lab will filter LLM generated content from their training sets based on the source model. Leakage of AI behavior into public datasets is inevitable.
- LZ_Khan 8mo agoIf you care about improvement of models, you would support the US labs here. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars to train a frontier model. It's not just "scraping the web." Distillation allows labs to replicate these results at 1/100th of the cost. This creates a prisoner's dilenmma which incentivizes labs to withhold their models from the public.
- YetAnotherNick 8mo ago> incentivizes labs to withhold their models from the public. This is the only way they make money.
- wpm 8mo ago> If you care about improvement of models, you would support the US labs here. I guess I don't care then.
- LZ_Khan 8mo agothat's fair!
- ElevenLathe 8mo agoHow much did it cost to produce all the data on the internet and every book ever published? Surely even the most conservative calculations put it at multiple years of planetary GDP. The same argument can be made to say that letting the big labs get away with pirating it will disincentivize people to publish anything.
- ceroxylon 8mo agoI personally have stopped publishing publicly, since my research is still on the fuzzy boundary of AI's current knowledge, my website gets scraped daily, and I don't want to contribute to paid models for zero acknowledgement or compensation.
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
- PlatoIsADisease 8mo agoGo free stuff! But... no one is running 400B models on their computers. You are just giving them data instead. Its not like China is known to protect IP. Your data is going to be used against you, and we cant use western laws to keep it safe.
- impulser_ 8mo agoYeah they do. https://openrouter.ai/minimax/minimax-m2.5/providers https://openrouter.ai/minimax/minimax-m2.5/providers https://openrouter.ai/z-ai/glm-5/providers https://openrouter.ai/z-ai/glm-5/providers https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k2.5/providers https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k2.5/providers
- PlatoIsADisease 8mo agoThis is not 'running it on our own computers'. But I like the option to give my data to a rando rather than one of the big 5 US companies that can get sued. At least the rando probably has no idea what to do with 10M of my customer's IP. Actually... thank you for the links. Unironically.
- SlavikCA 8mo agoSo, only Americans can use data against others? By the way, I'm running 400B model on my computer with 72GB VRAM: Qwen3.5-397B-A17B-GGUF/UD-Q4_K_XL getting 13 t/s. Subjectively, I feel it's runs at the level of Anthropic Claude, just slower.
- PlatoIsADisease 8mo agoQuestion for you, that 13t/s, is that pretty solid even with high context/tokens? I know Apple marketing says 'look at our 20t/s' but they sent less than 40 tokens.
- Aerroon 8mo ago256 GB of RAM?
- 8mo ago
- reactordev 8mo agoTurn the lens the other way around. By publicly posting that these models violate IP and anyone can run them, they are painting a specific political picture here…
- nashadelic 8mo agoWhy? Imagine the frontier labs lobbying for a ban on using "chinese ai" for commercial use in america