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But aren't those the same startups that think they need to run on AWS EKS instead of using a single cheap server? The cheapest used Hetzner server currently is

by tsak 7mo ago

But aren't those the same startups that think they need to run on AWS EKS instead of using a single cheap server? The cheapest used Hetzner server currently is €39.24 / month: - Intel Core i7-6700 - 32 GB - 2 x 480 GB Datacenter SSD - 1 GB/s - 20 TB traffic Their VPS are even cheaper. And you can run a lot on this.

iLoveOncall 7mo ago
Except 40€ a month is extremely poor value for this CPU that's more than a decade old.
- burnte 7mo ago
  No, that's actually a really good deal for dedicated hardware with those specs. For a project sized for hardware like that, the CPU is a lot less relevant than the RAM and storage and transfer.
- tmtvl 7mo ago
  8 threads at 3.4 GHz, 8MB cache. Seems fine, depending on your use case.
  - Aurornis 7mo ago
    Measuring CPUs by thread count and clock speed is not a good way to gauge performance. A current gen CPU would be several times faster than this old CPU. Depending on workload, this old CPU might be as slow as a 2 thread or even 1 thread current gen server.
    - yread 7mo ago
      It does 8000 CPU marks with 4 cores. Sure Xeon 674X does 83641 with 28 cores. But show me where can you find it for less than 10 times the price? And with 320GB RAM, 10TB of NVMe SSD storage and 10 GBit/s of "unlimited" bandwidth
      - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
        More than that, compare it to modern cloud CPUs. Epyc 9845 gets 153000 but that's with 160 cores / 320 threads. Per core it's under 1000 and 4 cores would be 3825 when the 11-year-old i7 is 8000. Because those big systems are optimized for power efficiency. That Epyc is ~2.4W/core compared to ~16W/core for the old i7. It has a lower base clock and is Zen5c. If we cut the 8-core Ryzen 9850X3D's score in half, 4 Ryzen cores from the same generation but with a higher base clock and six times the L3 cache per core would be 20942. But it's also back up to 15W/core. The Epyc still has better performance per watt. The newer cores are significantly more efficient. That doesn't mean they're unconditionally faster independent of all other variables.
      - Aurornis 7mo ago
        > And with 320GB RAM, 10TB of NVMe SSD storage and 10 GBit/s of "unlimited" bandwidth I think you’re talking about something else. The comment above was about a machine that didn’t have 10TB of storage, 320GB RAM, or unlimited bandwidth. If you find 320GB of RAM and unlimited bandwidth for 40 Euro monthly then send it over!
        yread 7mo ago
        The 39 eur machine has 32GB of RAM ~1TB of storage and 1gbit/s. So to make it a fair comparison the 10 times faster cpu should also have 10 times of those resources
    - mkesper 7mo ago
      Yes, e.g. for AWS it pays off to have a look at the 'CoreMark Score' column at https://instances.vantage.sh/ https://instances.vantage.sh/
- mkesper 7mo ago
  If you need more power check out the AX line of dedicated servers: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/
- locknitpicker 7mo ago
  > Except 40€ a month is extremely poor value for this CPU that's more than a decade old. This is a rather baffling opinion to have. All cloud providers charge far more for a virtualized instance running on God knows what hardware. You are faced with a deal where you can run your software on bare metal, and you complain about... About what exactly?
- c16 7mo ago
  For the 5 api requests a second most projects will get, it'll probably do.
- dijit 7mo ago
  Is it? It's 10x the price on GCP: https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator?dl=CjhDaVEyWWpJNU16ZGtPUzFtWldNekxUUTJORGN0T1dVM05DMW1aVFEwTldNd01HVTFaVFFRQVE9PRAIGiQ3NTcwOTYwNS0xQkQ3LTRBN0UtQjQ2RS1DOEM4QTBEODQ4QkI https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator?dl=CjhDaVEyWWpJ... The CPU is the same generation; https://docs.cloud.google.com/compute/docs/general-purpose-machines#n1_machines https://docs.cloud.google.com/compute/docs/general-purpose-m...
- ErroneousBosh 7mo ago
  Except you're getting a couple of disks, many GB of RAM, and some on-site 24/7 support, limitless network traffic, and your electricity bill. Not too bad considering.
Aurornis 7mo ago
If your only need is a lot of bandwidth with very low server CPU use that’s fine. That CPU is ancient, though. Over a decade old. That DRAM is 2-channel DDR3. This could be a good deal for someone, but entrusting your startup’s operations to a 10 year old slow computer in Germany instead of using EKS would be an extremely short sighted move. A startup should be developing software and shipping it quickly to validate the market, not pinching pennies to save the equivalent of a couple hours of developer salary.
- antonkochubey 7mo ago
  >That CPU is ancient, though. Over a decade old. Coincidentally so are the t3 / t3a instances on AWS that everyone loves to use especially for dev/staging environments
  - Aurornis 7mo ago
    10 years is where hardware failure rates start ramping quickly, in my experience. Not necessarily obvious failures, but subtle errors, memory problems (like this case without an ECC capable CPU) and little instabilities. With cloud instances I can migrate to a new instance with a couple clicks if I want. Trying to save a couple hundred euros per month on hosting costs needs to be balanced against the risks and extra developer time. For personal projects these old instances can be an excellent deal though.
    - antonkochubey 7mo ago
      Right, for exactly that reason Hetzner offers brand new AX42 / EX63 servers with ECC memory and modern (Zen 4 / Arrow Lake) CPUs for just a little bit more.
- raxxorraxor 7mo ago
  I would guess that 99.9% of startups wouldn't notice the age of the CPU if they aren't in the business for CPU compute power. Also, if you don't want to provision software systems, you probably shouldn't use Kubernetes at all. Both this and compute are niche businesses and neither would rent a budget server anyway.
Roark66 7mo ago
Similar to my favourite OVH servers, but I have unlimited traffic at 0.5Gb/s 64gb ram and dual mics. Similar price (with vat in Poland). If you wanted to run same workloads on Aws it would cost you few hundred euro a month. I see a silver lining to all this. At least maybe the silly "throw more horizontal scaling at it" will stop being a default response to all performance problems and people that are able to squeeze more processing out of the same hardware will be sought after again.

by tsak 7mo ago

iLoveOncall 7mo ago

Except 40€ a month is extremely poor value for this CPU that's more than a decade old.

burnte 7mo ago
No, that's actually a really good deal for dedicated hardware with those specs. For a project sized for hardware like that, the CPU is a lot less relevant than the RAM and storage and transfer.
tmtvl 7mo ago
8 threads at 3.4 GHz, 8MB cache. Seems fine, depending on your use case.
- Aurornis 7mo ago
  Measuring CPUs by thread count and clock speed is not a good way to gauge performance. A current gen CPU would be several times faster than this old CPU. Depending on workload, this old CPU might be as slow as a 2 thread or even 1 thread current gen server.
  - yread 7mo ago
    It does 8000 CPU marks with 4 cores. Sure Xeon 674X does 83641 with 28 cores. But show me where can you find it for less than 10 times the price? And with 320GB RAM, 10TB of NVMe SSD storage and 10 GBit/s of "unlimited" bandwidth
    - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
      More than that, compare it to modern cloud CPUs. Epyc 9845 gets 153000 but that's with 160 cores / 320 threads. Per core it's under 1000 and 4 cores would be 3825 when the 11-year-old i7 is 8000. Because those big systems are optimized for power efficiency. That Epyc is ~2.4W/core compared to ~16W/core for the old i7. It has a lower base clock and is Zen5c. If we cut the 8-core Ryzen 9850X3D's score in half, 4 Ryzen cores from the same generation but with a higher base clock and six times the L3 cache per core would be 20942. But it's also back up to 15W/core. The Epyc still has better performance per watt. The newer cores are significantly more efficient. That doesn't mean they're unconditionally faster independent of all other variables.
    - Aurornis 7mo ago
      > And with 320GB RAM, 10TB of NVMe SSD storage and 10 GBit/s of "unlimited" bandwidth I think you’re talking about something else. The comment above was about a machine that didn’t have 10TB of storage, 320GB RAM, or unlimited bandwidth. If you find 320GB of RAM and unlimited bandwidth for 40 Euro monthly then send it over!
      - yread 7mo ago
        The 39 eur machine has 32GB of RAM ~1TB of storage and 1gbit/s. So to make it a fair comparison the 10 times faster cpu should also have 10 times of those resources
  - mkesper 7mo ago
    Yes, e.g. for AWS it pays off to have a look at the 'CoreMark Score' column at https://instances.vantage.sh/ https://instances.vantage.sh/
mkesper 7mo ago
If you need more power check out the AX line of dedicated servers: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/
locknitpicker 7mo ago
> Except 40€ a month is extremely poor value for this CPU that's more than a decade old. This is a rather baffling opinion to have. All cloud providers charge far more for a virtualized instance running on God knows what hardware. You are faced with a deal where you can run your software on bare metal, and you complain about... About what exactly?
c16 7mo ago
For the 5 api requests a second most projects will get, it'll probably do.
dijit 7mo ago
Is it? It's 10x the price on GCP: https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator?dl=CjhDaVEyWWpJNU16ZGtPUzFtWldNekxUUTJORGN0T1dVM05DMW1aVFEwTldNd01HVTFaVFFRQVE9PRAIGiQ3NTcwOTYwNS0xQkQ3LTRBN0UtQjQ2RS1DOEM4QTBEODQ4QkI https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator?dl=CjhDaVEyWWpJ... The CPU is the same generation; https://docs.cloud.google.com/compute/docs/general-purpose-machines#n1_machines https://docs.cloud.google.com/compute/docs/general-purpose-m...
ErroneousBosh 7mo ago
Except you're getting a couple of disks, many GB of RAM, and some on-site 24/7 support, limitless network traffic, and your electricity bill. Not too bad considering.

Aurornis 7mo ago

If your only need is a lot of bandwidth with very low server CPU use that’s fine. That CPU is ancient, though. Over a decade old. That DRAM is 2-channel DDR3. This could be a good deal for someone, but entrusting your startup’s operations to a 10 year old slow computer in Germany instead of using EKS would be an extremely short sighted move. A startup should be developing software and shipping it quickly to validate the market, not pinching pennies to save the equivalent of a couple hours of developer salary.

antonkochubey 7mo ago
>That CPU is ancient, though. Over a decade old. Coincidentally so are the t3 / t3a instances on AWS that everyone loves to use especially for dev/staging environments
- Aurornis 7mo ago
  10 years is where hardware failure rates start ramping quickly, in my experience. Not necessarily obvious failures, but subtle errors, memory problems (like this case without an ECC capable CPU) and little instabilities. With cloud instances I can migrate to a new instance with a couple clicks if I want. Trying to save a couple hundred euros per month on hosting costs needs to be balanced against the risks and extra developer time. For personal projects these old instances can be an excellent deal though.
  - antonkochubey 7mo ago
    Right, for exactly that reason Hetzner offers brand new AX42 / EX63 servers with ECC memory and modern (Zen 4 / Arrow Lake) CPUs for just a little bit more.
raxxorraxor 7mo ago
I would guess that 99.9% of startups wouldn't notice the age of the CPU if they aren't in the business for CPU compute power. Also, if you don't want to provision software systems, you probably shouldn't use Kubernetes at all. Both this and compute are niche businesses and neither would rent a budget server anyway.

Roark66 7mo ago

Similar to my favourite OVH servers, but I have unlimited traffic at 0.5Gb/s 64gb ram and dual mics. Similar price (with vat in Poland). If you wanted to run same workloads on Aws it would cost you few hundred euro a month. I see a silver lining to all this. At least maybe the silly "throw more horizontal scaling at it" will stop being a default response to all performance problems and people that are able to squeeze more processing out of the same hardware will be sought after again.