5 ms·

The 'fake open-source' debate is interesting, but OnlyOffice is still the best free alternative for anyone coming from MS Office. LibreOffice has a great missio

by Flavius 8mo ago

The 'fake open-source' debate is interesting, but OnlyOffice is still the best free alternative for anyone coming from MS Office. LibreOffice has a great mission, but their UI feels dated and the formatting issues with DOCX/XLSX files are still a deal-breaker for me.

xvilka 8mo ago
LibreOffice constantly works on improving the import of the DOC/DOCX/XLS/XLSX/etc formats, thus if something doesn't work for you, it's better to file a bug in their bugtracker[1]. [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/enter_bug.cgi?format=guided https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/enter_bug.cgi?format=gui...
- cyber_kinetist 8mo ago
  The site is making ordinary users (other than developers) shy away from submitting bug reports. Come on, you need to make a whole account in Bugzilla for you to report bugs? The best thing would be to have a "Report bug" window directly in the program that lets the user send complaints without hazzle!
  - user205738 8mo ago
    Creating an account on bugzilla is much easier than on the same github, and it is also used in many projects, so registration makes sense.
  - lmz 8mo ago
    The best thing for users maybe. A special kind of hell for the people investigating. And since there are numerous non paying users vs only so many people who have the skills to fix things...
    - nickserv 8mo ago
      It's incredibly useful to know what problems your users are facing. It doesn't necessarily mean fixing any one particular bug, rather should help prioritize future work.
    - mikkupikku 8mo ago
      Of course the developers only want to interact with other developers, never those stinky users who don't even know the proper technical jargon for the bugs they're finding. But that doesn't mean we should pander to developer wishes.
      - lmz 8mo ago
        I'm sure if the "stinky users" have a support contract then someone will be happy to look at any kind of report and try to triage or reproduce. Otherwise the least they can do is figure out Bugzilla signup.
        mikkupikku 8mo ago
        > I'm sure if the "stinky users" have a support contract then someone will be happy to look at any kind of report I'm sure you know that's not true. I'm sure you know that developers hate taking bug reports from users even when those users have support contracts.
        lmz 8mo ago
        The case being discussed here is LibreOffice. Yes in general that is also true, but non paying users don't contribute anything. If they paid at least there's an expectation of fixes. Or at least the money can be used to hire a separate support team.
        isicjsjcu 8mo ago
        [dead]
  - braiamp 8mo ago
    Interesting that this is a take, because MS Office (and all MS products) don't include such button.
    - jodrellblank 8mo ago
      a) Yes they do: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/how-do-i-give-feedback-on-microsoft-365-2b102d44-b43f-4dd2-9ff4-23cf144cfb11 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/how-do-i-give-fee... https://veroniiiica.com/how-to-use-the-feedback-tool-in-microsoft-office/ https://veroniiiica.com/how-to-use-the-feedback-tool-in-micr... b) they have automated crash report and usage telemetry to tell them what isn’t working
stop50 8mo ago
Openoffice had afaik not an big change in years and Libreoffice had quite a lot of changes that improved Msoffice support.
- ZiiS 8mo ago
  I also missread Only as Open
2b3a51 8mo ago
"...their UI feels dated" How do you define dated in this context? Personally, I quite like being able to use the CUA keyboard shortcuts to access menu items. I like consistency over decades but I appreciate that there are other ways of looking at this.
- Flavius 8mo ago
  Take a look at these screenshots: https://libreoffice.en.uptodown.com/mac https://libreoffice.en.uptodown.com/mac It looks ancient, worse than office apps from 20 years ago.
  - barnabee 8mo ago
    Office apps from 20 years ago looked better than office apps now.
    - blackhaz 8mo ago
      And from 32 years ago as well - MS Office 4.0 as an example.
  - slyfox125 8mo ago
    It looks great using Plasma. If the comparison and "problem" is the lack of a "ribbon" menu, etc., then you are missing the whole point of Office alternatives: they are free, open source, but most importantly, they are usable. That is, they do not eschew usability and function for the sake of change, pure aesthetics, or a company's latest foray into some new gimmick. Ultimately, the "classic" approach taken is because many users feel that the classic style is more usable and makes them more productive irrespective of their learned habits of the past 20-30 years.
    - mft_ 8mo ago
      It looks awful and undiscoverable on a standard Mint/Cinnamon install. Anyway, the point is surely that if LibreOffice really wants to attract users from Microsoft Office, then it should do everything possible to optimise that transition? Offering the option of a UI mimicking the familiar MS Office layout is not a difficult engineering problem. And if it makes users significantly more likely to switch, it should be a high priority to implement. Honestly, at this stage, thinking of Gimp, FreeCAD, LibreOffice, and Blender, it’s as though there’s a weird group psychology deliberately against offering even decent (let along best-in-class) UIs in the open source world. These are all apps with excellent fundamental underlying engines/tech which are handicapped hugely by their UI/UX. (Yes I know some of these have improved in recent years, but only after far longer without improvements.)
Mikhail_K 8mo ago
> their UI feels dated A big selling point for me. Needless reworking of familiar interfaces plagues MS Windows ecosystem and I'm glad LibreOffice is displaying healthy conservatism by not fixing what isn't broken.
throwaway270925 8mo ago
Also free and great at MSOffice file compatibility is FreeOffice from SoftMaker: https://www.freeoffice.com/ https://www.freeoffice.com/
petepete 8mo ago
Does Microsoft Office exist now? Looked like they've entirely rebranded it to Microsoft 365 Copilot App (according to office.com)

by Flavius 8mo ago

xvilka 8mo ago

LibreOffice constantly works on improving the import of the DOC/DOCX/XLS/XLSX/etc formats, thus if something doesn't work for you, it's better to file a bug in their bugtracker[1]. [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/enter_bug.cgi?format=guided https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/enter_bug.cgi?format=gui...

cyber_kinetist 8mo ago
The site is making ordinary users (other than developers) shy away from submitting bug reports. Come on, you need to make a whole account in Bugzilla for you to report bugs? The best thing would be to have a "Report bug" window directly in the program that lets the user send complaints without hazzle!
- user205738 8mo ago
  Creating an account on bugzilla is much easier than on the same github, and it is also used in many projects, so registration makes sense.
- lmz 8mo ago
  The best thing for users maybe. A special kind of hell for the people investigating. And since there are numerous non paying users vs only so many people who have the skills to fix things...
  - nickserv 8mo ago
    It's incredibly useful to know what problems your users are facing. It doesn't necessarily mean fixing any one particular bug, rather should help prioritize future work.
  - mikkupikku 8mo ago
    Of course the developers only want to interact with other developers, never those stinky users who don't even know the proper technical jargon for the bugs they're finding. But that doesn't mean we should pander to developer wishes.
    - lmz 8mo ago
      I'm sure if the "stinky users" have a support contract then someone will be happy to look at any kind of report and try to triage or reproduce. Otherwise the least they can do is figure out Bugzilla signup.
      - mikkupikku 8mo ago
        > I'm sure if the "stinky users" have a support contract then someone will be happy to look at any kind of report I'm sure you know that's not true. I'm sure you know that developers hate taking bug reports from users even when those users have support contracts.
        lmz 8mo ago
        The case being discussed here is LibreOffice. Yes in general that is also true, but non paying users don't contribute anything. If they paid at least there's an expectation of fixes. Or at least the money can be used to hire a separate support team.
        isicjsjcu 8mo ago
        [dead]
- braiamp 8mo ago
  Interesting that this is a take, because MS Office (and all MS products) don't include such button.
  - jodrellblank 8mo ago
    a) Yes they do: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/how-do-i-give-feedback-on-microsoft-365-2b102d44-b43f-4dd2-9ff4-23cf144cfb11 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/how-do-i-give-fee... https://veroniiiica.com/how-to-use-the-feedback-tool-in-microsoft-office/ https://veroniiiica.com/how-to-use-the-feedback-tool-in-micr... b) they have automated crash report and usage telemetry to tell them what isn’t working

stop50 8mo ago

Openoffice had afaik not an big change in years and Libreoffice had quite a lot of changes that improved Msoffice support.

ZiiS 8mo ago
I also missread Only as Open

2b3a51 8mo ago

"...their UI feels dated" How do you define dated in this context? Personally, I quite like being able to use the CUA keyboard shortcuts to access menu items. I like consistency over decades but I appreciate that there are other ways of looking at this.

Flavius 8mo ago
Take a look at these screenshots: https://libreoffice.en.uptodown.com/mac https://libreoffice.en.uptodown.com/mac It looks ancient, worse than office apps from 20 years ago.
- barnabee 8mo ago
  Office apps from 20 years ago looked better than office apps now.
  - blackhaz 8mo ago
    And from 32 years ago as well - MS Office 4.0 as an example.
- slyfox125 8mo ago
  It looks great using Plasma. If the comparison and "problem" is the lack of a "ribbon" menu, etc., then you are missing the whole point of Office alternatives: they are free, open source, but most importantly, they are usable. That is, they do not eschew usability and function for the sake of change, pure aesthetics, or a company's latest foray into some new gimmick. Ultimately, the "classic" approach taken is because many users feel that the classic style is more usable and makes them more productive irrespective of their learned habits of the past 20-30 years.
  - mft_ 8mo ago
    It looks awful and undiscoverable on a standard Mint/Cinnamon install. Anyway, the point is surely that if LibreOffice really wants to attract users from Microsoft Office, then it should do everything possible to optimise that transition? Offering the option of a UI mimicking the familiar MS Office layout is not a difficult engineering problem. And if it makes users significantly more likely to switch, it should be a high priority to implement. Honestly, at this stage, thinking of Gimp, FreeCAD, LibreOffice, and Blender, it’s as though there’s a weird group psychology deliberately against offering even decent (let along best-in-class) UIs in the open source world. These are all apps with excellent fundamental underlying engines/tech which are handicapped hugely by their UI/UX. (Yes I know some of these have improved in recent years, but only after far longer without improvements.)

Mikhail_K 8mo ago

> their UI feels dated A big selling point for me. Needless reworking of familiar interfaces plagues MS Windows ecosystem and I'm glad LibreOffice is displaying healthy conservatism by not fixing what isn't broken.

throwaway270925 8mo ago

Also free and great at MSOffice file compatibility is FreeOffice from SoftMaker: https://www.freeoffice.com/ https://www.freeoffice.com/

petepete 8mo ago

Does Microsoft Office exist now? Looked like they've entirely rebranded it to Microsoft 365 Copilot App (according to office.com)