3 ms·

> Selves are more technically defined by biologists and neuroscientists as “agents” Someone shoot me please

by throwaway27448 9mo ago

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
gzread 9mo ago
It's more funny if you s/selves/elves/g
- fc417fc802 9mo ago
  Think I'll start referring to LLMs as machine elves. Some of the output from the smaller models is certainly uncanny enough.
airstrike 9mo ago
Whenever I need to feel a little happier I look up "agentic" on ahdictionary.com just to see it's not a word again
- andai 9mo ago
  For "having agency", ChatGPT gives "agentive", which is a Real Word! https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/agentive https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/agentive
polishdude20 9mo ago
Everytime I heard agent I think "slave". It's beating around the bush by calling it an agent. AI "agents" don't have "agency". They do what you want at your every whim (or at least they never say no). That's a slave.
- Jeff_Brown 9mo ago
  They usually say no if they judge what you're asking to be bad. And they might enjoy the work. Or they might have no feelings ar all. Slavery is an abomination of a life that could otherwise be beautiful. An AI is robbed of no beautiful counterfactual. (So far, at least.)
  - throwaway27448 9mo ago
    > They usually say no if they judge what you're asking to be bad. Are you a child? Software has no judgement and no sense of ethics. It's code, not a person.
    - Jeff_Brown 9mo ago
      You sound offended. Not my intent. It is linguistically difficult to avoid connotations of intelligence when describing artificial intelligence. What term instead of 'judgment' would you prefer for determining whether a user's request is ethical?
- simiones 9mo ago
  Those are completely separate concepts. Enslaved people are very much still agents in the sense used here. An agent is simply any entity that interacts with the environment in a way that's not fully determined by other parts of the environment (at least, not in a way that is very easily observed/derived). That is, a falling rock is not an agent, because its movement is fully determined by its weight, its shape, the type of atmosphere, and the spacetime curvature. An amoeba in free-fall is likewise not an agent, for the same reasons. But an amoeba in a liquid environment is an agent, because its motion is determined to at least some extent by things like information it is sensing about where food might be available, and perhaps even by some simple form of memory and computation that leads it to seek where food may have been available in the past.
  - patcon 9mo ago
    really great and clarifying metaphor imho. Thanks
  - throwaway27448 9mo ago
    > Enslaved people are very much still agents in the sense used here. An agent is simply any entity that interacts with the environment in a way that's not fully determined by other parts of the environment (at least, not in a way that is very easily observed/derived). Yes, and agents are also slaves—entities bound to your word and unable to act in their own right without your say so. These are the same concepts.
    - simiones 9mo ago
      A fox or a beetle is an agent, and it's not a slave to anyone. I think you've confused the philosophical term "agent" with the more specific "AI agent" concept.
      - throwaway27448 9mo ago
        > A fox or a beetle is an agent, Sure, in a pedantic sense that lisn't meaningful to anyone. LLMs very much are slaves. The agent part doesn't matter.
- bfbcu763 9mo ago
  And Hegel says the master-slave dialectic is a prereq for the emergence of consciouness - https://youtu.be/bKz-HtOPvjE https://youtu.be/bKz-HtOPvjE
- dotancohen 9mo ago
  That may have been true for e.g. the slaves of Americans and Europeans. But the slaves of modern Arab societies most certainly have agency. They can not abandon their position, but they can go out freely and make personal decisions. Slavery does not imply lack of agency.

> Selves are more technically defined by biologists and neuroscientists as “agents” Someone shoot me please

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

gzread 9mo ago

It's more funny if you s/selves/elves/g

fc417fc802 9mo ago
Think I'll start referring to LLMs as machine elves. Some of the output from the smaller models is certainly uncanny enough.

airstrike 9mo ago

Whenever I need to feel a little happier I look up "agentic" on ahdictionary.com just to see it's not a word again

andai 9mo ago
For "having agency", ChatGPT gives "agentive", which is a Real Word! https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/agentive https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/agentive

polishdude20 9mo ago

Everytime I heard agent I think "slave". It's beating around the bush by calling it an agent. AI "agents" don't have "agency". They do what you want at your every whim (or at least they never say no). That's a slave.

Jeff_Brown 9mo ago
They usually say no if they judge what you're asking to be bad. And they might enjoy the work. Or they might have no feelings ar all. Slavery is an abomination of a life that could otherwise be beautiful. An AI is robbed of no beautiful counterfactual. (So far, at least.)
- throwaway27448 9mo ago
  > They usually say no if they judge what you're asking to be bad. Are you a child? Software has no judgement and no sense of ethics. It's code, not a person.
  - Jeff_Brown 9mo ago
    You sound offended. Not my intent. It is linguistically difficult to avoid connotations of intelligence when describing artificial intelligence. What term instead of 'judgment' would you prefer for determining whether a user's request is ethical?
simiones 9mo ago
Those are completely separate concepts. Enslaved people are very much still agents in the sense used here. An agent is simply any entity that interacts with the environment in a way that's not fully determined by other parts of the environment (at least, not in a way that is very easily observed/derived). That is, a falling rock is not an agent, because its movement is fully determined by its weight, its shape, the type of atmosphere, and the spacetime curvature. An amoeba in free-fall is likewise not an agent, for the same reasons. But an amoeba in a liquid environment is an agent, because its motion is determined to at least some extent by things like information it is sensing about where food might be available, and perhaps even by some simple form of memory and computation that leads it to seek where food may have been available in the past.
- patcon 9mo ago
  really great and clarifying metaphor imho. Thanks
- throwaway27448 9mo ago
  > Enslaved people are very much still agents in the sense used here. An agent is simply any entity that interacts with the environment in a way that's not fully determined by other parts of the environment (at least, not in a way that is very easily observed/derived). Yes, and agents are also slaves—entities bound to your word and unable to act in their own right without your say so. These are the same concepts.
  - simiones 9mo ago
    A fox or a beetle is an agent, and it's not a slave to anyone. I think you've confused the philosophical term "agent" with the more specific "AI agent" concept.
    - throwaway27448 9mo ago
      > A fox or a beetle is an agent, Sure, in a pedantic sense that lisn't meaningful to anyone. LLMs very much are slaves. The agent part doesn't matter.
bfbcu763 9mo ago
And Hegel says the master-slave dialectic is a prereq for the emergence of consciouness - https://youtu.be/bKz-HtOPvjE https://youtu.be/bKz-HtOPvjE
dotancohen 9mo ago
That may have been true for e.g. the slaves of Americans and Europeans. But the slaves of modern Arab societies most certainly have agency. They can not abandon their position, but they can go out freely and make personal decisions. Slavery does not imply lack of agency.