4 ms·

It's weird I was having a conversation with a contractor the other day, and he mentioned how in 1970, contractors earned ~9k/year and a truck cost ~2k. He was m

It's weird I was having a conversation with a contractor the other day, and he mentioned how in 1970, contractors earned ~9k/year and a truck cost ~2k. He was making the comparison about how he made 50K this year and the truck he financed was also around 50K.. I don't think it's a coincidence a lot of problems are happening at the same time in the US.

alephnerd 9mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- retrac 9mo ago
  The wage gap between black and white Americans is nearly the same today as in 1970.
- dottjt 9mo ago
  Not to justify this, but is this possibly the reason why those opportunities existed?
- majormajor 9mo ago
  The 80s-and-on story of America is not a story of women and minorities getting on more solid economic footing at the cost of some additional costs for white male Americans. Almost everybody is worse off - higher debt, less property ownership among the youth, etc. I wouldn't agree with a position of "white people aren't going to stop being racist, just separate everyone and let them be" (we could call this the Clarence Thomas position, as Corey Robin has written about[0]). But it's wildly misleading to say that the slippage of the American economy is because of less overt discrimination. It's universal. The economy itself is broken compared to how it used to be. (Personally, I'd point at the oligarch-fighting "soak the rich" taxes passed in the early 20th century as a key point here.) [0] https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627793834/theenigmaofclarencethomas/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627793834/theenigmaofclar...
- Affric 9mo ago
  So your thesis is that the segregationists were right and there’s a causal link between the decline in conditions for white American workers and the success of the civil rights movement? Why must anyone be content to be poor and equal to only the poor?
  - lunar-whitey 9mo ago
    The civil rights movement broke the New Deal coalition and ended popular support for many of the policies that had maintained the socioeconomic status of working and lower middle class whites. Today, neither party seriously entertains extending social programs for anyone.
- eli_gottlieb 9mo ago
  > Yet we do not pay poll taxes today. We are not getting lynched in the streets. We are not being directly racially discriminated from employment. No thanks to the present government, who post about deporting slightly less than 1/3 the US population.
- GibbonBreath 9mo ago
  If you're going to reply to people can you actually reply to then instead of editing your comment? You probably shouldn't reply to people who tell you to kill yourself anyway but the fact that comment is (presumably) deleted illustrates the kind of confusion this causes.
WillPostForFood 9mo ago
Part of the economic distortion, and difficulty in making these comparisons, is that a 1970 Ford F-100 and 2025 Ford F-150 are pretty radically different. Both by design, government mandate, and customer demands. 2 door single row -> 4 door two rows drum brakes -> anti-lock disc brakes lap belts only -> shoulder belts with airbags, normally aspirated V-8, no catalytic converter -> twin turbo v6 and dual catalytic converter manual transmission -> 10 speed automatic If you wanted to make a Ford F-100 today, without the modern safety, emissions, fuel efficiency, and comforts, you could probably do it for less than $17,000, which is what $2,000 adjusted for inflation is.
- majormajor 9mo ago
  And a computer in 1970 would've been way more expensive and far crappier than a hundred dollar Android tablet today. It's not exactly in dispute that there has been technological development between 1970 and 2025. But it's also not the central issue. In America the personal vehicle is a necessity in the vast majority of the country, and it's relatively more expensive today. As are many other necessities. (If you want we can quibble further and say a 17k used Rav 4 or Tacoma would be more reliable than a 1970 F-100 anyway blah blah blah blah the increased lifespan and availability of used cars causes new cars to have to go more upmarket blah blah blah... but the hedonic treadmill is also real and if you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute in the 70s, but today have a 10 year old car and an apartment with a 70min commute, you're not gonna feel good.)
  - WillPostForFood 9mo ago
    Yes I agree they are MUCH more expensive relatively. But they are more expensive entirely by choice, not because of inflation or stagnant wages. People want better cars, and that costs more. The government demands lower emissions, that costs more. Safety costs more. There is no world where you get all that for the same percentage of income. you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute And you be killed or paralyzed after a fender bender. Death rate per 100,000,000 miles dropped from 5 in 1970 to 1.4 in 2023.

alephnerd 9mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
retrac 9mo ago
The wage gap between black and white Americans is nearly the same today as in 1970.
dottjt 9mo ago
Not to justify this, but is this possibly the reason why those opportunities existed?
majormajor 9mo ago
The 80s-and-on story of America is not a story of women and minorities getting on more solid economic footing at the cost of some additional costs for white male Americans. Almost everybody is worse off - higher debt, less property ownership among the youth, etc. I wouldn't agree with a position of "white people aren't going to stop being racist, just separate everyone and let them be" (we could call this the Clarence Thomas position, as Corey Robin has written about[0]). But it's wildly misleading to say that the slippage of the American economy is because of less overt discrimination. It's universal. The economy itself is broken compared to how it used to be. (Personally, I'd point at the oligarch-fighting "soak the rich" taxes passed in the early 20th century as a key point here.) [0] https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627793834/theenigmaofclarencethomas/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627793834/theenigmaofclar...
Affric 9mo ago
So your thesis is that the segregationists were right and there’s a causal link between the decline in conditions for white American workers and the success of the civil rights movement? Why must anyone be content to be poor and equal to only the poor?
- lunar-whitey 9mo ago
  The civil rights movement broke the New Deal coalition and ended popular support for many of the policies that had maintained the socioeconomic status of working and lower middle class whites. Today, neither party seriously entertains extending social programs for anyone.
eli_gottlieb 9mo ago
> Yet we do not pay poll taxes today. We are not getting lynched in the streets. We are not being directly racially discriminated from employment. No thanks to the present government, who post about deporting slightly less than 1/3 the US population.
GibbonBreath 9mo ago
If you're going to reply to people can you actually reply to then instead of editing your comment? You probably shouldn't reply to people who tell you to kill yourself anyway but the fact that comment is (presumably) deleted illustrates the kind of confusion this causes.

WillPostForFood 9mo ago

Part of the economic distortion, and difficulty in making these comparisons, is that a 1970 Ford F-100 and 2025 Ford F-150 are pretty radically different. Both by design, government mandate, and customer demands. 2 door single row -> 4 door two rows drum brakes -> anti-lock disc brakes lap belts only -> shoulder belts with airbags, normally aspirated V-8, no catalytic converter -> twin turbo v6 and dual catalytic converter manual transmission -> 10 speed automatic If you wanted to make a Ford F-100 today, without the modern safety, emissions, fuel efficiency, and comforts, you could probably do it for less than $17,000, which is what $2,000 adjusted for inflation is.

majormajor 9mo ago
And a computer in 1970 would've been way more expensive and far crappier than a hundred dollar Android tablet today. It's not exactly in dispute that there has been technological development between 1970 and 2025. But it's also not the central issue. In America the personal vehicle is a necessity in the vast majority of the country, and it's relatively more expensive today. As are many other necessities. (If you want we can quibble further and say a 17k used Rav 4 or Tacoma would be more reliable than a 1970 F-100 anyway blah blah blah blah the increased lifespan and availability of used cars causes new cars to have to go more upmarket blah blah blah... but the hedonic treadmill is also real and if you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute in the 70s, but today have a 10 year old car and an apartment with a 70min commute, you're not gonna feel good.)
- WillPostForFood 9mo ago
  Yes I agree they are MUCH more expensive relatively. But they are more expensive entirely by choice, not because of inflation or stagnant wages. People want better cars, and that costs more. The government demands lower emissions, that costs more. Safety costs more. There is no world where you get all that for the same percentage of income. you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute And you be killed or paralyzed after a fender bender. Death rate per 100,000,000 miles dropped from 5 in 1970 to 1.4 in 2023.