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Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M
- bookofjoe 9mo agohttps://archive.ph/KRH4W https://archive.ph/KRH4W
- almosthere 9mo ago[flagged]
- crimsoneer 9mo agowhere is this documented?
- __float 9mo agoIt's not, because it's a conspiracy theory. They'll make tenuous connections between unrelated things and extrapolate some grand scheme to match their fiction.
- almosthere 9mo agohttps://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/01/migration-model-sustainable-development/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/01/migration-model-sust...
- krthat1 9mo ago"Anti foreigner sentiment"? Dear NYT, try to find an apartment in the EU or Switzerland. At best, you will get a furnished (to circumvent rent caps), overpriced 30 square meter dump that takes up 40% of your net salary. Once that problem is solved, we can talk about "sentiments".
- outside1234 9mo agoSo what you are saying is that these places have not built enough housing. That sounds like the actual problem, not the population size.
- api 9mo ago“We will do literally anything to make housing more affordable except build more of it.” Forget where I first saw that but it’s absolutely true. The left will try rent control, subsidies, taxes and prohibitions against speculation, banning AirBnB, etc. The right will try mass deportations and population caps. Nobody will build more housing because that would work, and home owners are incentivized not to do anything that would work, and homeowners vote in much larger numbers. The problem won’t be solved until renters out vote homeowners and until everyone who wants more affordable housing stops advocating the solutions that will not work.
- kelseyfrog 9mo agoHow? I can't seem to affect any control the factors that constraint housing. I want to build more, but short of becoming a developer myself, I'm powerless. Even if I were a developer, I'd likely be subject to the same structural forces.
- api 9mo agoThe main impediments are density limits, zoning, onerous permitting requirements, lawsuits from NIMBY groups to block everything, and so on. The entire developed world is basically a big housing cartel where existing home owners work to limit supply to keep the price high.
- kelseyfrog 9mo agoIt feels like the most effective strategy is to Simple Sabotage[1] Field Manual the NIMBY groups. Am I picking up what you're putting down? 1. https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...
- alephnerd 9mo agoWalk around Google Geneva (edit: doh, Zurich - my coffee hasn't kicked in), Novartis Basel, or CERN and count how many "Swiss" nationals there are. A large portion are white collar immigrants from CEE or Asia, or French commuters. Switzerland's comparative advantage as an innovation hub was due to it's permissive capital structures and historic openness to white collar immigration. All that a rule like this does is incentivize moving jobs out of Switzerland. Heck, look at UBS axing 3,000 jobs across all functions in CH and shifting them to India [0] last Wednesday. If UBS, Novartis, Google Geneva (edit: doh, Zurich - my coffee hasn't kicked in), etc cannot continue to attract employees they will leave, and given the extremely friendly FTAs and BITs Switzerland [1] has signed either unilaterally or part of the EFTA, it's extremely easy. Heck, look at how Syngenta went from being a Swiss major that employed thousands in Switzerland to a Chinese major that is about to IPO in Hong Kong [2] in just a decade. Already 1 out of every 3 Swiss businesses is planning to shift out of Switzerland (primarily to the EU and US, but Asia comes up as well) [3]. Switzerland doesn't have the same comparative advantage in finance 40 years ago (why Basel when I can go to London, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam) nor manufacturing (why CH and not DE or CN) and this kind of ruling puts it's entire life sciences industry - the last industry within which CH remains a global leader - in jeopardy. Additionally, Switzerland is not in the EU and is dependent on the EU-Switzerland FTA. If this were to pass, it would violate that FTA with Switzerland's largest trading partner. The EU can severely push back against CH, and France+Germany+Italy would very much support such retaliation as it would help incentivize Swiss businesses to shift out of Switzerland. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/ubs-plans-hire-3000-new-roles-india-it-axes-jobs-switzerland-2026-02-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/ubs-plans-hire-3000... [1] - https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Aussenwirtschaftspolitik_Wirtschaftliche_Zusammenarbeit/Wirtschaftsbeziehungen/Freihandelsabkommen/partner_fha.html https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Aussenwirtschaftspoli... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/syngenta-targets-up-10-billion-hong-kong-listing-2026-sources-say-2026-02-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/syngenta-targets-up-10-b... [3] - https://www.thelocal.ch/20251023/swiss-companies-set-to-relocate-thousands-of-jobs-abroad-bosses-fear https://www.thelocal.ch/20251023/swiss-companies-set-to-relo...
- KellyCriterion 9mo agoSwiss comp advantage started in WWII when they were used to exchange Nazis gold into other currencies - this gave them a topstart for the economic period after the war since they were perfectly connected globally and they understood to scale & keep this advantage for long time. Maybe its fading a little bit nowadays
- KellyCriterion 9mo agoWhy shouldnt they be allowed to make a cap at 10M?
- shafyy 9mo agoBecause it's very likely against the Swiss constitution
- KellyCriterion 9mo agoPlease elaborate and send me the link to the relevant www.parlament.ch docs :)
- outside1234 9mo agoLet’s pretend it’s within the constitution. How are they going to enforce this? For baby 10M+1 are they going to tell a Swiss woman that she can’t have a baby? In any case, this is definitely not conformant to the treaty that the Swiss have with the EU around rights of free movement.
- retired 9mo agoYou need impeccable timing if you want a baby. Make sure grandma falls down the stairs first otherwise the baby will be exiled to Liechtenstein.
- Johnny555 9mo ago>For baby 10M+1 are they going to tell a Swiss woman that she can’t have a baby? This wouldn't happen because it's not actually a population control measure, it's an immigration control measure - when the population gets above 9.5M, Switzerland would start shutting down immigration/asylum. There's nothing in the initiative that would set controls on births by Swiss citizens. (and it would be unlikely to be needed since Switzerland is facing the same low birth rate of other western countries)
- 9x39 9mo ago
- eastbound 9mo ago[flagged]
- well_ackshually 9mo ago> who were also protected by the minister of justice’s approach to justice I've repeatedly called you a dumbass on this website and it's not about to change with this comment: the minister of justice is not in charge of: * Police * Arresting people * Building prisons * Fixing the prison overpopulation that makes it impossible to send someone to jail. * Changing laws. > before you say it: the Crans Montana owner was French, with the name of Macron’s first minister of justice Macron's ministers of justice were Bayrou, then Belloubet, before Dupont-Moretti. Who hasn't been minister since 2024. That's without considering the fact that it's the most absolute dog shit "link" you could make. Last names can be shared, woohoo. Zero relationship between Jacques Moretti and Eric Dupont-Moretti. Dumbass.
- eastbound 9mo ago[flagged]
- well_ackshually 9mo agoOk gros faf.
- Herring 9mo agoWestern societies are aging. If you don't take in immigrants (which is basically the government becoming the far right), you're on a timer. Your economy will slow, insecurity will rise, and the far right will surge anyway. It's happening to Japan. As far as I can tell, the problem is inequality leading to widespread insecurity because the rich buy up housing. The right wing has no solutions. What you probably need is Vienna-style public housing and very high taxes to reduce inequality and fund social services. But then the rich always threaten capital flight to tank your economy.
- Mountain_Skies 9mo ago"Line must go up" is such a death wish and I don't see how people who consider themselves "green" can also preach the line must go up mantra. Yes, there are consequences from a shrinking population. There are also consequences from a growing one, especially one that is cultivated with no regard to anything other than maximizing the absolute number. But I guess if you're one of the people who can benefit from the line going up while alive, it doesn't matter what happens to the world once you're gone. Just make sure that line is doing the right thing while you're breathing and that's all that matters.
- Gagarin1917 9mo agoThe system they’ve crafted relies on having enough of a working population to pay for the older benefit-receiving population. Their benefits are so large and unwieldy, they know the whole thing will fall apart if they don’t find a way to fund it. They see this as a threat to their entire way of life.
- Herring 9mo agoYou won't get anywhere if your solution to climate change is widespread poverty and insecurity. In fact from what I can tell the more secure societies are more likely to push green policies (comparing Europe vs US/China). Intuitively I have more capacity to entertain vegetarianism if I'm not working 80hrs per week. Anyway the rich are emitting way more carbon than everyone else so taxing them should be the first priority, not austerity.
- 9mo ago
- ranguna 9mo agoGood for them, I hope the vote will reflect everyone's wishes.
- _diyar 9mo agoContext as a Swiss person: One of the strongest political parties in Switzerland today is the SVP (german acronym) which is right-wing. It has won a strong plurality in national elections for easily a decade. This vote, however, does not stem from the federal (or even state-level) government, but instead is an initiative launched by a group of conservative politicians which happen to be part of the SVP party. The Swiss Federal Council (executive body) has come out against this initiative. Switzerland has a form of direct democracy, where any group of individuals can propose a change in laws and if they collect 100k signatures (within 18 months) this proposed text will be voted on by the whole country. Here is a list of all referendums, a subset of which are these initiatives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Swiss_federal_referendums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Swiss_federal_referend... These initiatives are a frequent feature in Swiss politics, and not necessarily indicative of broadly popular legislation. In fact, whether or not an initiative is accepted is heavily correlated with the support it receives form the federal government. Give that they oppose it, I would bet against this passing.
- jeffbee 9mo agoSVP "which is right-wing" may not convey the degree and nature of that alignment. Just search for "SVP propaganda posters" or read https://www.dw.com/en/far-right-party-violated-anti-racism-laws-with-cut-up-the-swiss-poster-says-court/a-38421564 https://www.dw.com/en/far-right-party-violated-anti-racism-l.... When I lived in Switzerland I was pretty shocked by how "out" the hard right was. It was as if having been neutral in WW2 not enough of their homegrown fascists got shot, and they still had plain old Nazis kicking around, holding offices and passing laws.
- fooker 9mo ago> plain old Nazis kicking around, holding offices and passing laws This happened everywhere, to an extent that is genuinely surprising to me. Pretty much every German company and government position post WW2 is in this category. And funnily enough, a good number of American organizations. Chile's president is the son of a Nazi. Japan went on operating business as usual except for the invading China part.
- subpixel 9mo agoTwo possibilities could be true at the same time. There might be a population limit that a country wants to set, based on effects of population visible in employment, housing , transportation, and social services. There might be a motivation to curb immigration from certain parts of the world, based on cultural factors and aligning more with one side of the political spectrum than the other.
- techie128 9mo agoSo how does this work in practice? Once the population reaches 10M, people can't have kids?
- lotsofpulp 9mo agoBased on Switzerland’s total fertility rate of 1.3, the population increases only due to immigration, so controlling the flow of immigration is all that would need to happen.
- maxerickson 9mo agoMaybe they have to take a bounty first.
- foobarian 9mo agoI'm going to guess that having too many kids would be a happy problem for them (and most gentrified Western societies)
- retired 9mo agoWill they use FIFO or LIFO to enforce the 10M? And will those people be exiled or taken out to the back?
- bee_rider 9mo agoBased on the general behavior of humanity: probably a priority queue/heap.
- hmokiguess 9mo agoI support that. If you tried doing the inverse, for example, migrate to an Islamic country and bring over Christianity there, you would not be welcomed at all. I’m an expat and one thing I’ve learned is to integrate myself with the culture of the country that adopted me, I believe this shows respect and that I am aligned with its values and principles.
- dieortin 9mo agoA huge majority of foreign residents in Switzerland come from Christian countries, so I don’t know what your point is.
- Gud 9mo agoWhy is this down voted? I live in Switzerland(not from here, migrated) and this vote is not specifically against muslims.
- KellyCriterion 9mo ago...because you are on HN.... ;-)
- poly2it 9mo agoDo you truly believe Switzerland is at risk of an Islamic invasion? How do people on a platform such as HN fall for such obviously falsifiable statements? The initiative is obviously part of the global right-wing populist trend. Countries in the EU are dependent on immigration for maintaining their economies and public infrastructure as the population ages. I'm not Swiss, but the current government in Sweden has been going through with similar anti-criminal/anti-bad-immigrant (racist) politics and rethoric for four years now. As a result, there are now elderly care centers in parts of the country where 25% of all personnel have been expelled, children and even babies are taken back to their "home countries" without their parents and major domestic industry organisations are turning on the politicians they have fostered as the detrimental economic policies are killing low-wage industries in Sweden.
- rimbo789 9mo agoTypical right wing popularism to divide people and ignore the fact they have no actual solutions. Racism is bad people. This will hurt people living in Switzerland today and those who end up there in the future.
- Mountain_Skies 9mo ago[flagged]
- rimbo789 9mo agoI said nothing about cheap labour. People should get to move and live where they want. If Switzerland has a lack of infrastructure it should build more, not xenophobically cap its population. You can’t freeze a society in amber.
- 9x39 9mo agoThis view reduces countries to nothing more than oversized hotels or economic zones, as if they don’t have communities that go back many generations and who would fight or die to defend the borders. Think this through: If the world likes your real estate, they can just come in and take it over overnight? Borders suddenly don’t matter? Pop caps can easily be understood as visa or naturalization buffers. Hysteria doesn’t help.
- rimbo789 9mo agoNationalism and borders have done very little for humanity. The world would be a better place if we defined our communities by how we welcomed people and not by who we excluded
- 9x39 9mo agoIf that was the case, there would be no need to worry about migrating to the area formerly-known-as-Switzerland to be among its people, would there? The people who clamor for moving there now could simply remake what they imagine liking about it in another area - careful not to erect borders or engender any kind of pride or loyalty to what they build, naturally.
- derleyici 9mo agoThis just makes no sense, because before all why 10 million? There is no scientific or proven reason for this number by the proposing party. The SVP position paper is 38 pages of cherry-picked stats but nowhere do they demonstrate why 10 million is the breaking point rather than 9.5 or 11. It is a round number chosen for a slogan. The Federal Council's official message to Parliament dismantles the whole thing. Real GDP per capita grew 0.82 percent annually between 2002 and 2022, comparable to Norway, Austria, and Denmark. EU and EFTA nationals are net contributors to Swiss social insurance, paying significantly more into AVS, AI, and APG than they receive back. The SVP frames asylum seekers as the most urgent part of the problem, but recognized refugees make up about 1 percent of total residents. Meanwhile 64 percent of net migration in 2024 came from EU and EFTA countries, overwhelmingly people filling jobs. This is not an asylum crisis, it is labor migration the Swiss economy actively demands. The initiative would likely require denouncing the ECHR, the Geneva Refugee Convention, and other human rights treaties to hit an arbitrary number. The guillotine clause means killing free movement also kills Schengen and Dublin. And the Federal Council already negotiated a safeguard clause with the EU that allows limiting immigration in justified cases without blowing up the entire bilateral relationship. That is a scalpel. This initiative is a sledgehammer aimed at a number someone picked because it fits on a poster. Sorry, not sorry, but facts don't care about feelings.
- jalapenoj 9mo ago[dead]
- OGEnthusiast 9mo agoGood for them.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]