4 ms·

Google is stifling anti-ICE speech in the workplace

67 points by ledoge 8mo ago

bitpush 8mo ago
What tech company allows this at workplace these days? How's Apple these days?
- superkuh 8mo ago
  Pretty much all the big tech companies allow this. It's just that they are pro-ICE and pro-current administration in the workplace speech. Their CEOs have already bent the knee, made the tens of millions to half billions in donations to the Trump family, and expect everyone under them not to undermine their sycophancy. It's a real problem with the tech industry. Repeating IBM's WWII mistakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
  - Herring 8mo ago
    Most US companies are run like tiny little fascist dictatorships, which is a great training ground for the real thing. Contrast eg Norway, where businesses operate inside of a formal 3-way agreement (Trepartssamarbeidet) between the government, employers associations, and trade unions. It's going to take probably a few rounds of fascism and many millions dead before Americans widely decide to change the fundamental nature of business.
    - _DeadFred_ 8mo ago
      Capitalist companies are just the modern day evolution of feudal lords with the mandate of maximum value extraction with zero care for the impacts on your fiefdom/market, the tendency to drift to rent seeking, etc. Instead of Normans organizing a raiding party for lands, you have Normans renamed as Capitalists organizing a raiding party for a target market, just now in the modern world they also get to offload the burdens of population governance, risk, infrastructure, housing, healthcare, retirement security, training, and social stability. The Capitalists even named their raiding party using the military term 'Company' and organize its power structure in the same militaristic way, with the leader accountable to them and not the people under/the workers.
      - palmotea 8mo ago
        > Capitalist companies are just the modern day evolution of feudal lords with the mandate of maximum value extraction with zero care for the impacts on your fiefdom/market, the tendency to drift to rent seeking, etc. Actually, I'd argue capitalist companies are often worse, because at least feudal lord has more interest in ensuring the long-term viability of their fief. In capitalism its not uncommon for some investor to come in, wreck the place's long-term viability for short-term profit, then sell before the other shoe drops.
    - palmotea 8mo ago
      > Contrast eg Norway, where businesses operate inside of a formal 3-way agreement (Trepartssamarbeidet) between the government, employers associations, and trade unions. > It's going to take probably a few rounds of fascism and many millions dead before Americans widely decide to change the fundamental nature of business. I don't agree. I think what's needed is to break the delusion that every American is a capitalist-lord-in-waiting, so they delusionally think and vote in ways that harm their interests (see, software engineers excited about AI and advocating for its adoption). Also cut down the noise. The "culture wars" (from both sides) are very effective at distracting people from more fundamental issues. I really think one party needs to drop all that, and focus narrowly on representing the common people as workers.
scottscambaugh 8mo ago
[flagged]
tokai 8mo ago
Google are not unionized at all are they? Seems like they keep trying to pull stuff like this, but its really hard to do without proper organization and representatives.
spacewrangler 8mo ago
Good
snvzz 8mo ago
[flagged]
- gmerc 8mo ago
  You forgot the #hailcorporate.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
- CuriouslyC 8mo ago
  While I'm not huge on having political discussions in the workplace, I also think employers should be accountable to their employees, and I think workplace organization to collectively express displeasure in a way that employers actually feel and are forced to respond to is 100% legit.
- hsuduebc2 8mo ago
  But that doesn't mean you should be afraid to lose your job if you sign a petition lol.
user2722 8mo ago
Big Tech to grow required deceiving its workers into thinking they all worked together towards a new future. Thankfully, that veil has come down, showing it is business as usual.
- amelius 8mo ago
  It's pretty clear now that this new future will be more like Google's AGI repressing humans.
- hsuduebc2 8mo ago
  Exactly my thoughts! Now google is not the "making a world better place" prestige place but just ordinary well paid job. Just with less cubicles. "Don't be evil" my ass.
songodongo 8mo ago
“Sir, this is a Wendy’s.”
docdeek 8mo ago
> “Most folks are afraid to discuss anything remotely political at work.” There are plenty of other places to talk politics, religion, or share personal opinions. Work is best kept for work.
- xyproto 8mo ago
  Yes, but cencorship is also politics. What happens if someone just tries to stay apolitical and "work safe" and are still cencored? Any attempt at fighting this will be categorized as "political", "difficult" or worse.
  - dccoolgai 8mo ago
    Remember when they "censored" the guy who had the gall to write "men and women are a little different" at Google. There's an object lesson here, even if you disagreed with that guy.
- AlecSchueler 8mo ago
  Choosing not to discuss something and being afraid to discuss something are very different in very important ways.
  - decremental 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - docdeek 8mo ago
    I agree, though if all someone has to go on is that I stayed silent, it might be difficult to conclude whether I am uninterested, indifferent, or scared stiff.
- realusername 8mo ago
  Why did the Google CEO attend the Trump inauguration then? Isn't that politics?
  - 8mo ago
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
s1mplicissimus 8mo ago
I'm surprised this kind of speech was tolerated in the first place. Tbh even if it was, I'd do the devil and speak up in a way where I'm identifiable #futurecareerprospects I admire the courage of the people that do it anyway though.
josefresco 8mo ago
Google Defenders: "Keep politics at home!" Google: "Google CEO Sundar Picchai has been a fixture at the White House, attending parties and events. He oversaw Google’s $22 million donation to the White House ballroom and its $1 million donation to Trump’s inaugural fund. Brin, meanwhile, has become a Trump supporter."
zug_zug 8mo ago
It's funny -- about 8 years ago I remember this exact same issue came up, but the other way around. There was this guy, James Damore, basically a republican who said the diversity program was grievance politics or whatever, sent out a memo to hundreds of other employees, created a kerfuffle, ultimately was fired. He sued and retracted. Anyways back then I felt some sympathy for the guy, talking politics at work, because as far as I could tell he was a good-faith free-speech proponent. I even wrote a blog post about it and shared it on this site. However now seeing how much the tables have turned, and how little that cultural swing had to do with free speech, I feel embarrassed about my past self. It's incredibly clear to me that at most a small % of those "free speech" advocates are genuine, because I never see them speak up for the other side (like I did).
- jazz9k 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - SirFatty 8mo ago
    Confidently stating opinion as fact...
  - sheikhnbake 8mo ago
    > You've had the luxury and privilege for so long Ah yes, the United States. Famously pro-left wing since Nixon.
  - claudiulodro 8mo ago
    The largest cancelling brigade in the history of cancel culture was done by the right after the Charlie Kirk shooting, where more than 600 people were doxxed and lost their jobs for "social media posts that celebrated Kirk's assassination or were seen as disparaging of his legacy". [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisals_against_commentators_on_the_Charlie_Kirk_assassination#Employee_terminations_and_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisals_against_commentators...
    - snvzz 8mo ago
jasonfrost 8mo ago
Asking to leave a federal contract? Wouldn't that have downstream consequences with future potential federal contacts? If I were the customer I wouldn't give them my business of they pulled out of a federal contract because of politics
hsuduebc2 8mo ago
This getting flagged is kinda ironic
abc123abc123 8mo ago
Excellent! A company is a place to work, not do politics. I've left jobs due to overly woke colleagues who made every single meeting into a crusade against white men. In my current company, political discussion is forbidden, and I am very happy about that. People who love politics should go into politics, and leave their jobs. Plenty of public sector organizations who only talk politics for them, and peace of mind for me at a company.
- jameskilton 8mo ago
  And you'd be happily working at IBM building "resource management" software and hardware for the Nazis because "what they do with this software is not your responsibility". It ain't so black-and-white, and people with this kind of mentality are what enable the atrocities we've seen in the past and are seeing today.
  - GlacierFox 8mo ago
    "It ain't so black-and-white" - uses the word Nazi to describe the entirety of the Immigration & Customs Enforcement agency.
    - ledoge 8mo ago
      I think they were referring to the actual Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
      - GlacierFox 8mo ago
        wtf I had no idea IBM was that old.
- cosmicgadget 8mo ago
  > People who love politics should go into politics, and leave their jobs. "If you love talking about professional sports you should leave your job and play professional sports." See how genius that sounds? People can be interested in- or passionate about things and not do it as a day job. You can advocate for a politics-free workplace. Or a distractions-free workplace. But you have to realize that from its early days Google was supposed to be less a job and more a lifestyle. Partly because it attracted talent, mostly because it would keep people in the office slinging code. You can't push developers to spend 14 hours a day in the cube (or beanbag chair or whatever) and also expect them to remain hermetically sealed from the outside world.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
bigtex 8mo ago
Does google still have employees who spend all their days in the chat rooms advocating for their lifestyle choices while on the clock?
- cosmicgadget 8mo ago
  Yes every large software company has Rust coders.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
y0eswddl 8mo ago
what's most disturbing rn is the number of comments implying that there's nothing political about work :?
josefritzishere 8mo ago
Google is pro-gestapo now? They have fallen so far from "Don't be evil."
- jrepinc 8mo ago
  Not just them, all BigTech/GAFAM are

67 points by ledoge 8mo ago

bitpush 8mo ago

What tech company allows this at workplace these days? How's Apple these days?

superkuh 8mo ago
Pretty much all the big tech companies allow this. It's just that they are pro-ICE and pro-current administration in the workplace speech. Their CEOs have already bent the knee, made the tens of millions to half billions in donations to the Trump family, and expect everyone under them not to undermine their sycophancy. It's a real problem with the tech industry. Repeating IBM's WWII mistakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
- Herring 8mo ago
  Most US companies are run like tiny little fascist dictatorships, which is a great training ground for the real thing. Contrast eg Norway, where businesses operate inside of a formal 3-way agreement (Trepartssamarbeidet) between the government, employers associations, and trade unions. It's going to take probably a few rounds of fascism and many millions dead before Americans widely decide to change the fundamental nature of business.
  - _DeadFred_ 8mo ago
    Capitalist companies are just the modern day evolution of feudal lords with the mandate of maximum value extraction with zero care for the impacts on your fiefdom/market, the tendency to drift to rent seeking, etc. Instead of Normans organizing a raiding party for lands, you have Normans renamed as Capitalists organizing a raiding party for a target market, just now in the modern world they also get to offload the burdens of population governance, risk, infrastructure, housing, healthcare, retirement security, training, and social stability. The Capitalists even named their raiding party using the military term 'Company' and organize its power structure in the same militaristic way, with the leader accountable to them and not the people under/the workers.
    - palmotea 8mo ago
      > Capitalist companies are just the modern day evolution of feudal lords with the mandate of maximum value extraction with zero care for the impacts on your fiefdom/market, the tendency to drift to rent seeking, etc. Actually, I'd argue capitalist companies are often worse, because at least feudal lord has more interest in ensuring the long-term viability of their fief. In capitalism its not uncommon for some investor to come in, wreck the place's long-term viability for short-term profit, then sell before the other shoe drops.
  - palmotea 8mo ago
    > Contrast eg Norway, where businesses operate inside of a formal 3-way agreement (Trepartssamarbeidet) between the government, employers associations, and trade unions. > It's going to take probably a few rounds of fascism and many millions dead before Americans widely decide to change the fundamental nature of business. I don't agree. I think what's needed is to break the delusion that every American is a capitalist-lord-in-waiting, so they delusionally think and vote in ways that harm their interests (see, software engineers excited about AI and advocating for its adoption). Also cut down the noise. The "culture wars" (from both sides) are very effective at distracting people from more fundamental issues. I really think one party needs to drop all that, and focus narrowly on representing the common people as workers.

scottscambaugh 8mo ago

[flagged]

tokai 8mo ago

Google are not unionized at all are they? Seems like they keep trying to pull stuff like this, but its really hard to do without proper organization and representatives.

spacewrangler 8mo ago

Good

snvzz 8mo ago

[flagged]

gmerc 8mo ago
You forgot the #hailcorporate.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
CuriouslyC 8mo ago
While I'm not huge on having political discussions in the workplace, I also think employers should be accountable to their employees, and I think workplace organization to collectively express displeasure in a way that employers actually feel and are forced to respond to is 100% legit.
hsuduebc2 8mo ago
But that doesn't mean you should be afraid to lose your job if you sign a petition lol.

user2722 8mo ago

Big Tech to grow required deceiving its workers into thinking they all worked together towards a new future. Thankfully, that veil has come down, showing it is business as usual.

amelius 8mo ago
It's pretty clear now that this new future will be more like Google's AGI repressing humans.
hsuduebc2 8mo ago
Exactly my thoughts! Now google is not the "making a world better place" prestige place but just ordinary well paid job. Just with less cubicles. "Don't be evil" my ass.

songodongo 8mo ago

“Sir, this is a Wendy’s.”

docdeek 8mo ago

> “Most folks are afraid to discuss anything remotely political at work.” There are plenty of other places to talk politics, religion, or share personal opinions. Work is best kept for work.

xyproto 8mo ago
Yes, but cencorship is also politics. What happens if someone just tries to stay apolitical and "work safe" and are still cencored? Any attempt at fighting this will be categorized as "political", "difficult" or worse.
- dccoolgai 8mo ago
  Remember when they "censored" the guy who had the gall to write "men and women are a little different" at Google. There's an object lesson here, even if you disagreed with that guy.
AlecSchueler 8mo ago
Choosing not to discuss something and being afraid to discuss something are very different in very important ways.
- decremental 8mo ago
  [dead]
- docdeek 8mo ago
  I agree, though if all someone has to go on is that I stayed silent, it might be difficult to conclude whether I am uninterested, indifferent, or scared stiff.
realusername 8mo ago
Why did the Google CEO attend the Trump inauguration then? Isn't that politics?
- 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

s1mplicissimus 8mo ago

I'm surprised this kind of speech was tolerated in the first place. Tbh even if it was, I'd do the devil and speak up in a way where I'm identifiable #futurecareerprospects I admire the courage of the people that do it anyway though.

josefresco 8mo ago

Google Defenders: "Keep politics at home!" Google: "Google CEO Sundar Picchai has been a fixture at the White House, attending parties and events. He oversaw Google’s $22 million donation to the White House ballroom and its $1 million donation to Trump’s inaugural fund. Brin, meanwhile, has become a Trump supporter."

zug_zug 8mo ago

It's funny -- about 8 years ago I remember this exact same issue came up, but the other way around. There was this guy, James Damore, basically a republican who said the diversity program was grievance politics or whatever, sent out a memo to hundreds of other employees, created a kerfuffle, ultimately was fired. He sued and retracted. Anyways back then I felt some sympathy for the guy, talking politics at work, because as far as I could tell he was a good-faith free-speech proponent. I even wrote a blog post about it and shared it on this site. However now seeing how much the tables have turned, and how little that cultural swing had to do with free speech, I feel embarrassed about my past self. It's incredibly clear to me that at most a small % of those "free speech" advocates are genuine, because I never see them speak up for the other side (like I did).

jazz9k 8mo ago
[flagged]
- SirFatty 8mo ago
  Confidently stating opinion as fact...
- sheikhnbake 8mo ago
  > You've had the luxury and privilege for so long Ah yes, the United States. Famously pro-left wing since Nixon.
- claudiulodro 8mo ago
  The largest cancelling brigade in the history of cancel culture was done by the right after the Charlie Kirk shooting, where more than 600 people were doxxed and lost their jobs for "social media posts that celebrated Kirk's assassination or were seen as disparaging of his legacy". [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisals_against_commentators_on_the_Charlie_Kirk_assassination#Employee_terminations_and_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisals_against_commentators...
  - snvzz 8mo ago

jasonfrost 8mo ago

Asking to leave a federal contract? Wouldn't that have downstream consequences with future potential federal contacts? If I were the customer I wouldn't give them my business of they pulled out of a federal contract because of politics

hsuduebc2 8mo ago

This getting flagged is kinda ironic

abc123abc123 8mo ago

Excellent! A company is a place to work, not do politics. I've left jobs due to overly woke colleagues who made every single meeting into a crusade against white men. In my current company, political discussion is forbidden, and I am very happy about that. People who love politics should go into politics, and leave their jobs. Plenty of public sector organizations who only talk politics for them, and peace of mind for me at a company.

jameskilton 8mo ago
And you'd be happily working at IBM building "resource management" software and hardware for the Nazis because "what they do with this software is not your responsibility". It ain't so black-and-white, and people with this kind of mentality are what enable the atrocities we've seen in the past and are seeing today.
- GlacierFox 8mo ago
  "It ain't so black-and-white" - uses the word Nazi to describe the entirety of the Immigration & Customs Enforcement agency.
  - ledoge 8mo ago
    I think they were referring to the actual Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
    - GlacierFox 8mo ago
      wtf I had no idea IBM was that old.
cosmicgadget 8mo ago
> People who love politics should go into politics, and leave their jobs. "If you love talking about professional sports you should leave your job and play professional sports." See how genius that sounds? People can be interested in- or passionate about things and not do it as a day job. You can advocate for a politics-free workplace. Or a distractions-free workplace. But you have to realize that from its early days Google was supposed to be less a job and more a lifestyle. Partly because it attracted talent, mostly because it would keep people in the office slinging code. You can't push developers to spend 14 hours a day in the cube (or beanbag chair or whatever) and also expect them to remain hermetically sealed from the outside world.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

bigtex 8mo ago

Does google still have employees who spend all their days in the chat rooms advocating for their lifestyle choices while on the clock?

cosmicgadget 8mo ago
Yes every large software company has Rust coders.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

y0eswddl 8mo ago

what's most disturbing rn is the number of comments implying that there's nothing political about work :?

josefritzishere 8mo ago

Google is pro-gestapo now? They have fallen so far from "Don't be evil."

jrepinc 8mo ago
Not just them, all BigTech/GAFAM are