13 ms·

Windows 8 Arrives

255 points by dragonquest 14y ago

jerednel 14y ago
I happen to think that Windows 8 is a welcome refresh. At first, I was confused by the dashboard but I am finding it easier and easier to navigate around. For instance, going to the traditional desktop is as easy as clicking the "Desktop" tile. And opening a new tab in the metro-IE was a bit confusing but after figuring out that double finger pressing the touchpad brings up the tab list and url bar it has become easier. I also like the new native mail client and calendar apps. For the record, I am running Windows 8 on a 2011 macbook air via bootcamp and it runs perfect. Guild Wars 2 also gets about 10 fps more than it does on the mac client for what its worth and makes it actually playable on an Air :) Following this tangent a bit more, I feel like if the drivers were updated enough to support 3 finger left and right gestures to wipe between the different screens I wouldn't revisit OSX for a while. Windows 8 is a fun operating system.
- deleted 14y ago
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- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Perhaps it will wear off, but Windows 8 feels quite refreshing compared to other interfaces.
mikeratcliffe 14y ago
Meh, the interface makes no sense without a touchscreen.
- clone1018 14y ago
  Have you tried it?
  - el_cuadrado 14y ago
    I have. The interface is freaking unusable. It is like Microsoft decided to exit the desktop market with a bang. "We are failing, and we are taking Windows with us".
    - shortlived 14y ago
      There is no way out of the "metro" interface? Clarification: I assumed el_cuadrado was refering to metro being "unusable". Is that true?
      - sukuriant 14y ago
        To run desktop apps, you can go to the desktop. I've been using it as my primary OS for several months now Disclosure: MSFT Employee
        douglasisshiny 14y ago
        I recently bought a laptop and it's the first time I've had windows on my home machine since 2004. Since it's only $15 to upgrade: Is it possible/easy to upgrade and go back to Windows 7 if I find it detestable?
        dangrossman 14y ago
        Going back means using the restore disks or partitions that came with your computer, or installing fresh from a retail DVD of a previous OS. There's no "downgrade" process.
      - clone1018 14y ago
        Of course, 1% of your time is spent in Metro if you use it on a desktop, and that's generally when you're searching for something.
    - clone1018 14y ago
      To each his own I guess, the only time I ever use the Metro UI is when I'm searching for something, which usually consists of hitting the start button, searching "Chrome" (for google chrome) and then hitting enter. Any other time that I've used the interface it was just for development or testing. How often do you see yourself using it?
- Iaks 14y ago
  Exacerbating this is the fact that Windows 7 is arguably at full stride right now and has almost no points that I really want changed. Why then do I give myself (actually, pay for) a headache with this new release?
  - aik 14y ago
    >> Exacerbating this is the fact that Windows 7 is arguably at full stride right now and has almost no points that I really want changed. Sounds like another anti-innovation/change comment on hn. If this is not, please tell me how?
    - dendory 14y ago
      How is changing the desktop we currently have, which works for most people and everyone is used to, for a completely new system that is clearly meant for a device other than the PC, innovation? Change != always good.
      - untog 14y ago
        I think he was just pointing out that Hacker News can be somewhat schizophrenic on this topic. "WTF why won't Craigslist improve, it is anti-innovation" vs. "Why did MS change their UI?!?" And yes, before someone makes the statement, HN is made up of individuals with their own opinions etc. etc.
        viscanti 14y ago
        I think the difference is between things that work don't need to be changed, just for the sake of change. Things that are broken, or suffer from poor usability should change. Not everything needs to change, but I think it's fair to want broken things to change without advocating that everything change just because.
        HelloMcFly 14y ago
        But that's so short-sighted! You know what worked? The Motorola RAZR. But then the iPhone came out and it was a radical change and, even though many said at the time "I just need to make calls and text", it set the standard. If your mentality is always "if it ain't broke don't fix it" then you're probably going to get disrupted. Windows 7 wasn't broke, but the future of the desktop environment looks like it might be, so Microsoft is trying to merge desktop and mobile. It may not work, but you must at least somewhat sympathize with their need to try.
deleted 14y ago
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engtech 14y ago
Windows 8 Pro upgrade for $39 dollars ($15 for newer PCs). [1] That's... reasonable. I might consider buying a copy of Windows 8 Pro at that price and then waiting until it hits SP1 to install it. I might even spin up a VM to try it out. I like that the $39 upgrade applies to anyone with Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7. I think they're realizing that a lot of people don't upgrade OS because they don't want to upgrade their hardware. (like my old Win XP laptop that I use as a VNC terminal to other machines). The only reason why I wouldn't want to jump in with two feet is that I have a general dislike for the Xbox dashboard and I suspect that Metro would be very similar to it. [1] You can use this tool to check that you have a genuine version of Windows http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 [2] Windows OEM licenses are transferable if it included the hardware http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_faq.aspx#fbid=9yMpxLPoxsV?faq2 http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/... [3] Windows retail licenses are transferable http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualPrope... Here's a direct link to a PDF for Windows 7 Home Basic in English http://download.microsoft.com/Documents/UseTerms/Windows%207_Home%20Basic_English_266c7e01-34d6-4b9a-8d43-6cc2d1d39056.pdf http://download.microsoft.com/Documents/UseTerms/Windows%207... [4] Windows Anytime Upgrades are pretty much considered to be OEM 17. TRANSFER TO ANOTHER COMPUTER. (retail) a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded from allows you to do so. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers. 18. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. (retail) a. Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software and this agreement, by transferring the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to a third party. The first user must remove the software before transferring it separately from the computer. The first user may not retain any copies of the software. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software directly to a third party only with the licensed computer. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier edition. c. Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other
jiggy2011 14y ago
Well looks like this is judgement day for MS then. The price is much lower than for previous versions of Windows, this makes me suspect that we should start expecting new releases of Windows much more frequently, similar to how Apple does it. With the radical changes going on in Windows 8 it wouldn't surprise me to see a tweaked and improved Windows 9 in less than 2 years.
- MBCook 14y ago
  I hope so. They clearly learned that the delay between XP and Vista was way too long. I think they learned that the shorter delay between Vista and Windows 7 was beneficial too. Having the shorter releases seems to work very well, at least it has in the OS X world. The ability to release new features and get them in the hands of users faster than once every 3 or 5 years is a big improvement. It's also nice to see them drop the price. At the old $99 or $129 level, an OS upgrade really needs to justify it's existence. Many people would just hold out and buy a new computer (especially if you only paid $400 or $500 for it). At $40 it's much easier to get people to update without waiting for a hardware refresh.
- james4k 14y ago
  It may also have to do with the fact that there is an App Store, which will be a new, probably significant, source of revenue. And, it makes it a little easier for someone who's not sure about the radically new UI.
- zanny 14y ago
  > The price is much lower than for previous versions of Windows, this makes me suspect that we should start expecting new releases of Windows much more frequently, similar to how Apple does it. I absolutely don't think so at all. I think the lower price is because they want people using the metro app store, because they want an app ecosystem to make them money the way Google / Amazon / Apple do right now. They dind't backport Metro so Metro apps are Windows 8 only, so it is in their best interests to get as many people on the platform as fast as possible to maximize app development and maximize profits from app sales.
w1ntermute 14y ago
The Verge gave it a pretty solid score (8.8/10): http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3537710/windows-8-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3537710/windows-8-review The Surface, not so much (7.0): http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface...
- clauretano 14y ago
  i.e. Windows 8 got a good score, Windows RT not so much.
  - MBCook 14y ago
    I'd also imagine that the Surface's 7.0 is because of the hardware. Every review I've read has said that the hardware is pretty fantastic and the keyboard covers work surprisingly well. It's only Windows RT that people seem to be complaining about.
  - daliusd 14y ago
    Overall they have not broken Windows for PC users - that's OK. Nothing to see here. The most interesting thing will be in cheap tablets area.
luma 14y ago
I've been running Windows 8 since they release the RTM version to TechNet subscribers on my primary laptop (about a month now). Short version - outside of Metro it's basically Win7SP3 and it works great. Metro is every bit the usability disaster that people have claimed when not running on a touch screen. The good news is that you really don't have to interface much with Metro at all. It replaces the start menu, but it does so in a manner that works with how I'm used to dealing with the start menu already. That is, I already just hit the Win key and then start typing until the thing I want pops up, and that behavior has carried over. So, yeah Metro is awful for all the reasons everybody has already laid out. Despite that, Win 8 has been a solid performer and I won't be loading Win7 back on this system. My primary home system will continue to run Win7 until I am comfortable that my production applications will all run successfully (and by that, I mean "games").
- k-mcgrady 14y ago
  >> "Short version - outside of Metro it's basically Win7SP3 and it works great. Metro is every bit the usability disaster that people have claimed when not running on a touch screen." I've been using it on a MacBook Pro and with the multi-touch trackpad metro actually works reasonably well. Obviously it would be better with a touchscreen but I am able to tap to click, use two fingers to scroll left/right/up/down and moving the mouse the the screen corners activates charms/open apps/last opened app. Maybe PC mouse makers (including MS) will come up with similar mice to make the experience better for non-touchscreen devices.
  - Symmetry 14y ago
    Trackpoints in scroll mode are also omni-directional. But though it Just Works on Linux there are all sorts of hoops you have to jump through to get that working properly on Windows.
  - shardling 14y ago
    MS does have the wedge mouse -- perhaps they'll update it to support the correct gestures? http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3265121/microsoft-wedge-touch-mouse-and-mobile-keyboard-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3265121/microsoft-wedge-to...
deleted 14y ago
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- sukuriant 14y ago
  All the text on the page suggests that's an upgrade. Where did you see it was a full version?
- chollida1 14y ago
  Or without the referral link code: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H3SW4I/ http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H3SW4I/
  - binarycrusader 14y ago
    Even better is the System Builder 64-bit edition: http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Professional-System-Builder-64-Bit/dp/B0094NXBZ0/ http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Professional-System-Builder-64... They're offering it for $139.99 with an additional $30 discount if you buy by October 25th with the promotional code "WIN8SYST". The System Builder edition is important for hobbyists (like myself) that build or upgrade their own PCs as it includes transfer rights if it's your own personal PC that you install it on: http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-pricing-for-system-builders-said-to-be-roughly-the-same-as-windows-7-7000004361/ http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-pricing-for-system-builders-s...
    - bduerst 14y ago
      So is the Win 8 system builder a single license that needs to be transferred between machines... ...or can I use the license to run Win 8 on my PC, laptop, and HTPC all at once?
      - binarycrusader 14y ago
        The license is for a single computer only, physical or virtual: http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you_p2-7000003028/ http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-aff... The article I linked above summarises almost everything you'd want to know.
mbesto 14y ago
I'm trying to download it from GB and looks like it only allows from the US. So I hopped on my US-VPN and still redirects me to the GB site. Anyone have any idea how I get around this? (Note - I have a valid US credit card and am prepared to pay in USD)
- bvdbijl 14y ago
  Clear your cookies maybe?
- subsystem 14y ago
  Change your language setting to en-US?
  - mbesto 14y ago
    Yup, that'll do it. Thanks.
whalesalad 14y ago
Microsoft has a problem with not specifying fallback fonts for non-Windows machines: http://wsld.me/KPlc http://wsld.me/KPlc Looks like they're setting the font explicitly to 'Segoe UI' and nothing else in many spots. Telerik, a .NET CMS provider does a similar thing.
- Timmy_C 14y ago
  I suspect they believe only visitors with Windows machines will ever visit their site.
mtgx 14y ago
I don't think regular users will like this much, and forcing them to go into Metro will only make more people hate it, rather than like it. Fan bases grow when the growth is natural, not when it's forced. http://www.foolproof.co.uk/is-planet-earth-ready-for-windows-8/ http://www.foolproof.co.uk/is-planet-earth-ready-for-windows...
- MBCook 14y ago
  It really wouldn't surprise me at all if it turned out that tons of regular users loved Metro. The problem I keep reading about is the fact you can't stay in Metro all the time. There are some settings that you have to go into desktop mode to mess with, and if you're only used to Metro that's going to be really confusing.
  - contextfree 14y ago
    The design is that there really isn't a "desktop mode". the desktop is a feature/surface of the system, it's not something you switch your whole computer into.
    - Zr40 14y ago
      While perhaps technically true, as a user you really don't notice any of that. When you log in to Windows 8, it automatically shows the Start screen. While this is Metro, all you have to do is start any desktop application, and the desktop appears. This is no different in Windows 7. After logging in, surely you would start any application, either by opening the Start menu, or by clicking a application pinned to the task bar, or by double-clicking a shortcut on the desktop. You can put anything onto the Windows 8 Start screen (just right click a file or directory and select Pin to Start), so it's functionally identical -- just with bigger buttons. And if you really don't like it, you can always move the Desktop tile to the top left, so you can enter the desktop by pressing Enter.
itry 14y ago
Will this thing behave nicely when I put it on a machine which already has grub and several linux partitions? Or will it insist on killing grub or even do worse stuff to my machine?
- mulletbum 14y ago
  I would assume it kills Grub. I haven't tried, but Microsoft will most likely demand you use the Windows boot loader as they usually do in previous versions. Then you can probably re install Grub and set all of them back up together.
- gvnonor 14y ago
  I was hoping that it wouldn't kill grub but unfortunately it's just like before. My kubuntu partition lies idly as I haven't bothered re-installing grub yet.
rossjudson 14y ago
I've gotten to look Metro more than I did at first. I still don't stay in it; I mostly just head to the desktop and use the newer, flatter Windows 7 I find there. The elephant in the room for me is the horizontal scrolling. I'm sitting there spinning the mouse wheel vertically, and what's on the screen is moving horizontally. That's a total disconnect. Why this emphasis on horizontal scrolling? I don't see how the horizontally scrolling items are in any way easier to use than a vertically scrolling set of items. Seems like different, for difference's sake.
- mulletbum 14y ago
  This was my biggest issue as well. It seems Metro could have been easily set vertically, but instead there was this odd choice for horizontal that just feels incorrect.
  - justindocanto 14y ago
    I might be wrong, but I think they're mimicking the xbox dashboard which goes horizontal since you're moving it with the right & left trigger buttons. Feels natural on xbox but i think they probably wanted a sense of familiarity and thats why its horizontal on windows? Idk. Just my assumption.
- nlawalker 14y ago
  Horizontal scrolling is easier and more natural if you're using touch. The wide screen gives you lots of room to sweep your finger back and forth and "throw" the content if you want to. Horizontal touch scrolling also evokes the feeling of paging through a book. Of course, if you're not using touch, then yes, I agree it feels a bit weird at first. It doesn't take that long to get used to though.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    Besides, it kind of makes sense now that everything is widescreen.
jaybill 14y ago
And it STILL doesn't play DVDs without additional software! sigh
- potatolicious 14y ago
  This seems far less egregious now than it was a few years ago...
  - pkmays 14y ago
    Oddly, Windows 7 Pro does have DVD support out of the box.
- MrMember 14y ago
  This makes sense from Microsoft's point of view. Why would they pay a royalty fee on every copy of Windows when such a small percentage of users play DVDs? Especially when the fix is as easy as just downloading VLC.
- RexRollman 14y ago
  Windows 7 does play DVDs out of the box. IIRC, so did Vista. I am surprised they went backward on this.
  - ygra 14y ago
    Licensing fees. Most copies of Windows never play a single DVD, so why let everyone pay?
- freehunter 14y ago
  I have to imagine Microsoft picturing the majority of Windows 8 machines (between tablets and laptops) not including a DVD drive.
foohbarbaz 14y ago
The only way I am going to see Windows 8 is with a new PC (which is a few years away, next purchase is probably an Apple product), or at work. At work the IT dept will hopefully skip this version all together, or take a few years before "approving" it.
Permit 14y ago
Anyone whose University participates in Microsoft DreamSpark will be happy to know it's available for free there already.
- sturmeh 14y ago
  Free on DreamSpark or MSDNAA? I can't seem to find it on Dreamspark...
  - Galactor963 14y ago
    MSDNAA (which has been replaced by "DreamSpark Premium")
at-fates-hands 14y ago
I see this as a pretty big leap. Remember, this OS isn't about forgetting about Windows or forcing change on anybody. It's about creating an ecosystem similar to what Apple has. They want you to use their apps (Office, Bing Search, X-box Games) across all of their products (Desktop, Surface, Windows 8 phone) and make it so you can access the same info anywhere you are. I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on this rather bold move.
- tsotha 14y ago
  It's not that people haven't picked up on this "bold move". It's that they want an operating system, not an ecosystem.
propercoil 14y ago
Someone once said Windows 8 looks like a 5 dollar app. That sums it up for me
learc83 14y ago
Metro reminds me of the Acer Computer Explorer (I think that was the name, I was 11 at the time) that was installed on my very first computer (windows 95). The computer booted up to a home screen with icons for all of your programs, and you had to click exit to desktop to get into windows.
- MBCook 14y ago
  Come to think of it, the start screen isn't too far off from At Ease either. I remember all the Macs in school ran locked down copies to keep the students from messing with the computers and make it easier to find programs for the little kids. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Ease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Ease
- quattrofan 14y ago
  Metro reminds me of a Fisher Price toy.
zwischenzug 14y ago
...and screws up my evening by apparently breaking flash. We only warned our clients 4 months ago.
- Zr40 14y ago
  How does it apparently break Flash? It's working fine for me in Chrome and Internet Explorer.
  - zwischenzug 14y ago
    Yeah I should have clarified: for IE10, if you're not on the compat list, and you're in ModernUI. We did warn them... but did they listen?
fady 14y ago
i like how the kids look super into the new surface (pic 4).. i bet those peeps were either "paid" to be there, or set up so that they would all look so interested in that device.. srsly, why would someone buy a surface?
- freehunter 14y ago
  Wow, a big surprise that actors are employed in marketing material. Next thing you're going to tell me is that Justin Long and John Hodgman got paid for the Mac vs PC commercials or that the guys in the Samsung Galaxy ads weren't actually real people happening to stumble upon a crowd at an Apple store. Unless by putting "paid" in scare quotes, you were implying something slightly less scrupulous...
  - fady 14y ago
    yeah i was.. i was just saying that those kids look waaay to interested in what that guy is doing, and his facial expression also seems a little off.. i may have miss-communicated my intention, for that, i apologize
tarellel 14y ago
After midnight, will Windows 8 already have patches available to download as well? After all there are necessary evils they must protect us from.
roryokane 14y ago
Ars Technica’s five-page review of Windows 8: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/windows-reimagined-a-review-of-windows-8/2/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/window...
niggler 14y ago
Windows 8 has been available for months for free on Microsoft BizSpark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/ http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/)
lucb1e 14y ago
Quick question: Which build is released as consumer version now? There's already been a release preview, I wonder if they are the same.
- Zr40 14y ago
  The RTM version is, which is 6.2.9200.16384.
tonyedgecombe 14y ago
I've been using it since the RTM and it seems fine. However I can't say I am any more productive than I was with Windows 2000.
Syssiphus 14y ago
Run for the hills!
Tooluka 14y ago
So how can I buy it? (full, not upgrade). I thought that they'll sell digital Win 8 Pro for 79$ but can't find any option for this at MS store.

255 points by dragonquest 14y ago

I happen to think that Windows 8 is a welcome refresh. At first, I was confused by the dashboard but I am finding it easier and easier to navigate around. For instance, going to the traditional desktop is as easy as clicking the "Desktop" tile. And opening a new tab in the metro-IE was a bit confusing but after figuring out that double finger pressing the touchpad brings up the tab list and url bar it has become easier. I also like the new native mail client and calendar apps. For the record, I am running Windows 8 on a 2011 macbook air via bootcamp and it runs perfect. Guild Wars 2 also gets about 10 fps more than it does on the mac client for what its worth and makes it actually playable on an Air :) Following this tangent a bit more, I feel like if the drivers were updated enough to support 3 finger left and right gestures to wipe between the different screens I wouldn't revisit OSX for a while. Windows 8 is a fun operating system.

deleted 14y ago
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TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Perhaps it will wear off, but Windows 8 feels quite refreshing compared to other interfaces.

mikeratcliffe 14y ago

Meh, the interface makes no sense without a touchscreen.

clone1018 14y ago
Have you tried it?
- el_cuadrado 14y ago
  I have. The interface is freaking unusable. It is like Microsoft decided to exit the desktop market with a bang. "We are failing, and we are taking Windows with us".
  - shortlived 14y ago
    There is no way out of the "metro" interface? Clarification: I assumed el_cuadrado was refering to metro being "unusable". Is that true?
    - sukuriant 14y ago
      To run desktop apps, you can go to the desktop. I've been using it as my primary OS for several months now Disclosure: MSFT Employee
      - douglasisshiny 14y ago
        I recently bought a laptop and it's the first time I've had windows on my home machine since 2004. Since it's only $15 to upgrade: Is it possible/easy to upgrade and go back to Windows 7 if I find it detestable?
        dangrossman 14y ago
        Going back means using the restore disks or partitions that came with your computer, or installing fresh from a retail DVD of a previous OS. There's no "downgrade" process.
    - clone1018 14y ago
      Of course, 1% of your time is spent in Metro if you use it on a desktop, and that's generally when you're searching for something.
  - clone1018 14y ago
    To each his own I guess, the only time I ever use the Metro UI is when I'm searching for something, which usually consists of hitting the start button, searching "Chrome" (for google chrome) and then hitting enter. Any other time that I've used the interface it was just for development or testing. How often do you see yourself using it?
Iaks 14y ago
Exacerbating this is the fact that Windows 7 is arguably at full stride right now and has almost no points that I really want changed. Why then do I give myself (actually, pay for) a headache with this new release?
- aik 14y ago
  >> Exacerbating this is the fact that Windows 7 is arguably at full stride right now and has almost no points that I really want changed. Sounds like another anti-innovation/change comment on hn. If this is not, please tell me how?
  - dendory 14y ago
    How is changing the desktop we currently have, which works for most people and everyone is used to, for a completely new system that is clearly meant for a device other than the PC, innovation? Change != always good.
    - untog 14y ago
      I think he was just pointing out that Hacker News can be somewhat schizophrenic on this topic. "WTF why won't Craigslist improve, it is anti-innovation" vs. "Why did MS change their UI?!?" And yes, before someone makes the statement, HN is made up of individuals with their own opinions etc. etc.
      - viscanti 14y ago
        I think the difference is between things that work don't need to be changed, just for the sake of change. Things that are broken, or suffer from poor usability should change. Not everything needs to change, but I think it's fair to want broken things to change without advocating that everything change just because.
        HelloMcFly 14y ago
        But that's so short-sighted! You know what worked? The Motorola RAZR. But then the iPhone came out and it was a radical change and, even though many said at the time "I just need to make calls and text", it set the standard. If your mentality is always "if it ain't broke don't fix it" then you're probably going to get disrupted. Windows 7 wasn't broke, but the future of the desktop environment looks like it might be, so Microsoft is trying to merge desktop and mobile. It may not work, but you must at least somewhat sympathize with their need to try.

deleted 14y ago

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engtech 14y ago

Windows 8 Pro upgrade for $39 dollars ($15 for newer PCs). [1] That's... reasonable. I might consider buying a copy of Windows 8 Pro at that price and then waiting until it hits SP1 to install it. I might even spin up a VM to try it out. I like that the $39 upgrade applies to anyone with Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7. I think they're realizing that a lot of people don't upgrade OS because they don't want to upgrade their hardware. (like my old Win XP laptop that I use as a VNC terminal to other machines). The only reason why I wouldn't want to jump in with two feet is that I have a general dislike for the Xbox dashboard and I suspect that Metro would be very similar to it. [1] You can use this tool to check that you have a genuine version of Windows http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 [2] Windows OEM licenses are transferable if it included the hardware http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_faq.aspx#fbid=9yMpxLPoxsV?faq2 http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/... [3] Windows retail licenses are transferable http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualPrope... Here's a direct link to a PDF for Windows 7 Home Basic in English http://download.microsoft.com/Documents/UseTerms/Windows%207_Home%20Basic_English_266c7e01-34d6-4b9a-8d43-6cc2d1d39056.pdf http://download.microsoft.com/Documents/UseTerms/Windows%207... [4] Windows Anytime Upgrades are pretty much considered to be OEM 17. TRANSFER TO ANOTHER COMPUTER. (retail) a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer for your use. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software and install it on another computer, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded from allows you to do so. That computer becomes the licensed computer. You may not do so to share this license between computers. 18. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. (retail) a. Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software and this agreement, by transferring the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to a third party. The first user must remove the software before transferring it separately from the computer. The first user may not retain any copies of the software. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software directly to a third party only with the licensed computer. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier edition. c. Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other

jiggy2011 14y ago

Well looks like this is judgement day for MS then. The price is much lower than for previous versions of Windows, this makes me suspect that we should start expecting new releases of Windows much more frequently, similar to how Apple does it. With the radical changes going on in Windows 8 it wouldn't surprise me to see a tweaked and improved Windows 9 in less than 2 years.

MBCook 14y ago
I hope so. They clearly learned that the delay between XP and Vista was way too long. I think they learned that the shorter delay between Vista and Windows 7 was beneficial too. Having the shorter releases seems to work very well, at least it has in the OS X world. The ability to release new features and get them in the hands of users faster than once every 3 or 5 years is a big improvement. It's also nice to see them drop the price. At the old $99 or $129 level, an OS upgrade really needs to justify it's existence. Many people would just hold out and buy a new computer (especially if you only paid $400 or $500 for it). At $40 it's much easier to get people to update without waiting for a hardware refresh.
james4k 14y ago
It may also have to do with the fact that there is an App Store, which will be a new, probably significant, source of revenue. And, it makes it a little easier for someone who's not sure about the radically new UI.
zanny 14y ago
> The price is much lower than for previous versions of Windows, this makes me suspect that we should start expecting new releases of Windows much more frequently, similar to how Apple does it. I absolutely don't think so at all. I think the lower price is because they want people using the metro app store, because they want an app ecosystem to make them money the way Google / Amazon / Apple do right now. They dind't backport Metro so Metro apps are Windows 8 only, so it is in their best interests to get as many people on the platform as fast as possible to maximize app development and maximize profits from app sales.

w1ntermute 14y ago

The Verge gave it a pretty solid score (8.8/10): http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3537710/windows-8-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3537710/windows-8-review The Surface, not so much (7.0): http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface...

clauretano 14y ago
i.e. Windows 8 got a good score, Windows RT not so much.
- MBCook 14y ago
  I'd also imagine that the Surface's 7.0 is because of the hardware. Every review I've read has said that the hardware is pretty fantastic and the keyboard covers work surprisingly well. It's only Windows RT that people seem to be complaining about.
- daliusd 14y ago
  Overall they have not broken Windows for PC users - that's OK. Nothing to see here. The most interesting thing will be in cheap tablets area.

luma 14y ago

I've been running Windows 8 since they release the RTM version to TechNet subscribers on my primary laptop (about a month now). Short version - outside of Metro it's basically Win7SP3 and it works great. Metro is every bit the usability disaster that people have claimed when not running on a touch screen. The good news is that you really don't have to interface much with Metro at all. It replaces the start menu, but it does so in a manner that works with how I'm used to dealing with the start menu already. That is, I already just hit the Win key and then start typing until the thing I want pops up, and that behavior has carried over. So, yeah Metro is awful for all the reasons everybody has already laid out. Despite that, Win 8 has been a solid performer and I won't be loading Win7 back on this system. My primary home system will continue to run Win7 until I am comfortable that my production applications will all run successfully (and by that, I mean "games").

k-mcgrady 14y ago
>> "Short version - outside of Metro it's basically Win7SP3 and it works great. Metro is every bit the usability disaster that people have claimed when not running on a touch screen." I've been using it on a MacBook Pro and with the multi-touch trackpad metro actually works reasonably well. Obviously it would be better with a touchscreen but I am able to tap to click, use two fingers to scroll left/right/up/down and moving the mouse the the screen corners activates charms/open apps/last opened app. Maybe PC mouse makers (including MS) will come up with similar mice to make the experience better for non-touchscreen devices.
- Symmetry 14y ago
  Trackpoints in scroll mode are also omni-directional. But though it Just Works on Linux there are all sorts of hoops you have to jump through to get that working properly on Windows.
- shardling 14y ago
  MS does have the wedge mouse -- perhaps they'll update it to support the correct gestures? http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3265121/microsoft-wedge-touch-mouse-and-mobile-keyboard-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3265121/microsoft-wedge-to...

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

sukuriant 14y ago
All the text on the page suggests that's an upgrade. Where did you see it was a full version?
chollida1 14y ago
Or without the referral link code: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H3SW4I/ http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H3SW4I/
- binarycrusader 14y ago
  Even better is the System Builder 64-bit edition: http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Professional-System-Builder-64-Bit/dp/B0094NXBZ0/ http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Professional-System-Builder-64... They're offering it for $139.99 with an additional $30 discount if you buy by October 25th with the promotional code "WIN8SYST". The System Builder edition is important for hobbyists (like myself) that build or upgrade their own PCs as it includes transfer rights if it's your own personal PC that you install it on: http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-pricing-for-system-builders-said-to-be-roughly-the-same-as-windows-7-7000004361/ http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-pricing-for-system-builders-s...
  - bduerst 14y ago
    So is the Win 8 system builder a single license that needs to be transferred between machines... ...or can I use the license to run Win 8 on my PC, laptop, and HTPC all at once?
    - binarycrusader 14y ago
      The license is for a single computer only, physical or virtual: http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-affect-you_p2-7000003028/ http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-windows-8-license-terms-aff... The article I linked above summarises almost everything you'd want to know.

mbesto 14y ago

I'm trying to download it from GB and looks like it only allows from the US. So I hopped on my US-VPN and still redirects me to the GB site. Anyone have any idea how I get around this? (Note - I have a valid US credit card and am prepared to pay in USD)

bvdbijl 14y ago
Clear your cookies maybe?
subsystem 14y ago
Change your language setting to en-US?
- mbesto 14y ago
  Yup, that'll do it. Thanks.

whalesalad 14y ago

Microsoft has a problem with not specifying fallback fonts for non-Windows machines: http://wsld.me/KPlc http://wsld.me/KPlc Looks like they're setting the font explicitly to 'Segoe UI' and nothing else in many spots. Telerik, a .NET CMS provider does a similar thing.

Timmy_C 14y ago
I suspect they believe only visitors with Windows machines will ever visit their site.

mtgx 14y ago

I don't think regular users will like this much, and forcing them to go into Metro will only make more people hate it, rather than like it. Fan bases grow when the growth is natural, not when it's forced. http://www.foolproof.co.uk/is-planet-earth-ready-for-windows-8/ http://www.foolproof.co.uk/is-planet-earth-ready-for-windows...

MBCook 14y ago
It really wouldn't surprise me at all if it turned out that tons of regular users loved Metro. The problem I keep reading about is the fact you can't stay in Metro all the time. There are some settings that you have to go into desktop mode to mess with, and if you're only used to Metro that's going to be really confusing.
- contextfree 14y ago
  The design is that there really isn't a "desktop mode". the desktop is a feature/surface of the system, it's not something you switch your whole computer into.
  - Zr40 14y ago
    While perhaps technically true, as a user you really don't notice any of that. When you log in to Windows 8, it automatically shows the Start screen. While this is Metro, all you have to do is start any desktop application, and the desktop appears. This is no different in Windows 7. After logging in, surely you would start any application, either by opening the Start menu, or by clicking a application pinned to the task bar, or by double-clicking a shortcut on the desktop. You can put anything onto the Windows 8 Start screen (just right click a file or directory and select Pin to Start), so it's functionally identical -- just with bigger buttons. And if you really don't like it, you can always move the Desktop tile to the top left, so you can enter the desktop by pressing Enter.

itry 14y ago

Will this thing behave nicely when I put it on a machine which already has grub and several linux partitions? Or will it insist on killing grub or even do worse stuff to my machine?

mulletbum 14y ago
I would assume it kills Grub. I haven't tried, but Microsoft will most likely demand you use the Windows boot loader as they usually do in previous versions. Then you can probably re install Grub and set all of them back up together.
gvnonor 14y ago
I was hoping that it wouldn't kill grub but unfortunately it's just like before. My kubuntu partition lies idly as I haven't bothered re-installing grub yet.

rossjudson 14y ago

I've gotten to look Metro more than I did at first. I still don't stay in it; I mostly just head to the desktop and use the newer, flatter Windows 7 I find there. The elephant in the room for me is the horizontal scrolling. I'm sitting there spinning the mouse wheel vertically, and what's on the screen is moving horizontally. That's a total disconnect. Why this emphasis on horizontal scrolling? I don't see how the horizontally scrolling items are in any way easier to use than a vertically scrolling set of items. Seems like different, for difference's sake.

mulletbum 14y ago
This was my biggest issue as well. It seems Metro could have been easily set vertically, but instead there was this odd choice for horizontal that just feels incorrect.
- justindocanto 14y ago
  I might be wrong, but I think they're mimicking the xbox dashboard which goes horizontal since you're moving it with the right & left trigger buttons. Feels natural on xbox but i think they probably wanted a sense of familiarity and thats why its horizontal on windows? Idk. Just my assumption.
nlawalker 14y ago
Horizontal scrolling is easier and more natural if you're using touch. The wide screen gives you lots of room to sweep your finger back and forth and "throw" the content if you want to. Horizontal touch scrolling also evokes the feeling of paging through a book. Of course, if you're not using touch, then yes, I agree it feels a bit weird at first. It doesn't take that long to get used to though.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Besides, it kind of makes sense now that everything is widescreen.

jaybill 14y ago

And it STILL doesn't play DVDs without additional software! sigh

potatolicious 14y ago
This seems far less egregious now than it was a few years ago...
- pkmays 14y ago
  Oddly, Windows 7 Pro does have DVD support out of the box.
MrMember 14y ago
This makes sense from Microsoft's point of view. Why would they pay a royalty fee on every copy of Windows when such a small percentage of users play DVDs? Especially when the fix is as easy as just downloading VLC.
RexRollman 14y ago
Windows 7 does play DVDs out of the box. IIRC, so did Vista. I am surprised they went backward on this.
- ygra 14y ago
  Licensing fees. Most copies of Windows never play a single DVD, so why let everyone pay?
freehunter 14y ago
I have to imagine Microsoft picturing the majority of Windows 8 machines (between tablets and laptops) not including a DVD drive.

foohbarbaz 14y ago

The only way I am going to see Windows 8 is with a new PC (which is a few years away, next purchase is probably an Apple product), or at work. At work the IT dept will hopefully skip this version all together, or take a few years before "approving" it.

Permit 14y ago

Anyone whose University participates in Microsoft DreamSpark will be happy to know it's available for free there already.

sturmeh 14y ago
Free on DreamSpark or MSDNAA? I can't seem to find it on Dreamspark...
- Galactor963 14y ago
  MSDNAA (which has been replaced by "DreamSpark Premium")

at-fates-hands 14y ago

I see this as a pretty big leap. Remember, this OS isn't about forgetting about Windows or forcing change on anybody. It's about creating an ecosystem similar to what Apple has. They want you to use their apps (Office, Bing Search, X-box Games) across all of their products (Desktop, Surface, Windows 8 phone) and make it so you can access the same info anywhere you are. I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on this rather bold move.

tsotha 14y ago
It's not that people haven't picked up on this "bold move". It's that they want an operating system, not an ecosystem.

propercoil 14y ago

Someone once said Windows 8 looks like a 5 dollar app. That sums it up for me

learc83 14y ago

Metro reminds me of the Acer Computer Explorer (I think that was the name, I was 11 at the time) that was installed on my very first computer (windows 95). The computer booted up to a home screen with icons for all of your programs, and you had to click exit to desktop to get into windows.

MBCook 14y ago
Come to think of it, the start screen isn't too far off from At Ease either. I remember all the Macs in school ran locked down copies to keep the students from messing with the computers and make it easier to find programs for the little kids. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Ease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Ease
quattrofan 14y ago
Metro reminds me of a Fisher Price toy.

zwischenzug 14y ago

...and screws up my evening by apparently breaking flash. We only warned our clients 4 months ago.

Zr40 14y ago
How does it apparently break Flash? It's working fine for me in Chrome and Internet Explorer.
- zwischenzug 14y ago
  Yeah I should have clarified: for IE10, if you're not on the compat list, and you're in ModernUI. We did warn them... but did they listen?

fady 14y ago

i like how the kids look super into the new surface (pic 4).. i bet those peeps were either "paid" to be there, or set up so that they would all look so interested in that device.. srsly, why would someone buy a surface?

freehunter 14y ago
Wow, a big surprise that actors are employed in marketing material. Next thing you're going to tell me is that Justin Long and John Hodgman got paid for the Mac vs PC commercials or that the guys in the Samsung Galaxy ads weren't actually real people happening to stumble upon a crowd at an Apple store. Unless by putting "paid" in scare quotes, you were implying something slightly less scrupulous...
- fady 14y ago
  yeah i was.. i was just saying that those kids look waaay to interested in what that guy is doing, and his facial expression also seems a little off.. i may have miss-communicated my intention, for that, i apologize

tarellel 14y ago

After midnight, will Windows 8 already have patches available to download as well? After all there are necessary evils they must protect us from.

roryokane 14y ago

Ars Technica’s five-page review of Windows 8: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/windows-reimagined-a-review-of-windows-8/2/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/window...

niggler 14y ago

Windows 8 has been available for months for free on Microsoft BizSpark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/ http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/)

lucb1e 14y ago

Quick question: Which build is released as consumer version now? There's already been a release preview, I wonder if they are the same.

Zr40 14y ago
The RTM version is, which is 6.2.9200.16384.

tonyedgecombe 14y ago

I've been using it since the RTM and it seems fine. However I can't say I am any more productive than I was with Windows 2000.

Syssiphus 14y ago

Run for the hills!

Tooluka 14y ago

So how can I buy it? (full, not upgrade). I thought that they'll sell digital Win 8 Pro for 79$ but can't find any option for this at MS store.