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They already support ID checks as an alternative to face scanning, if the latter proves to be untenable then it's literally a case of flipping a switch to manda
by jsheard 8mo ago
They already support ID checks as an alternative to face scanning, if the latter proves to be untenable then it's literally a case of flipping a switch to mandate ID instead.
- Forgeties79 8mo agoMost people under the driving age don’t have ID’s, at least in the US.
- airstrike 8mo agoAnd lose every user in the process
- dark-star 8mo agoI think you massively overestimate how many people actually care. My guess is that 95% or more of all Discord users do not care and simply upload their selfie or ID card and be done with it. I know I will (although they did say that they expect 80%+ to not require verification since they can somehow infer their age from other parameters)
- bee_rider 8mo agoThose 5% are the unusual sorts that separate Discord from Facebook.
- esseph 8mo ago> I know I will Are you a minority, LGBTQ+, etc or of a "different" political persuasion that might have any reason to be distrustful of the US government? If so, you probably wouldn't just "be done with it".
- dark-star 8mo agoNo, I'm not, and I also don't live under an opressive government that tracks those people down. I simply don't care if the us government or some random US company knows about what I play, eat, talk about or who I sleep with. And my guess is that outside the US LGBTQ+ and "different political view" bubble, most people also don't care. And that bubble makes up maybe 5% of Discord's user base
- int_19h 8mo agoThe real question is, how much of the "terminally online" population who is more likely to use paid Discord features?
- airstrike 8mo agoRemember digg? I've already cancelled my Nitro account. I'm quite active on a ~5k member programming server and we're giving Zulip another try. I think it's unlikely we'll stay on Discord. Obviously anecdotal, but eventually this adds up.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- lossyalgo 8mo agoAlso cancelled my Nitro after 5 years. This whole thing being "for the safety of kids" is obviously a farce just to get more user data because Nitro users supposedly will have to do the ID check as well, but if you're paying with a CC/Paypal, you are obviously of sufficient age to not require an ID check.
- jasonfarnon 8mo agoIs there any data on what kind of hits to enrollment were taken by facebook, gmail etc when they added requirements like a phone #? Maybe it's buried in their sec filings.
- jasonfarnon 8mo agoIs there any data on what kind of hits to enrollment were taken by facebook, gmail etc when they added requirements like a phone #? Maybe it's buried in their sec filings. Anyway, this "cat and mouse" game is probably irrelevant. They're not looking for and don't need a perfect system. Bc 99% of the public couldn't care less about handing over their information.
- drnick1 8mo agoGoogle does not require a phone number. They may ask for one and tell you it's for your own good, but you can skip the request.
- arcologies1985 8mo agoThey can't feasibly do this in the US since many people don't have drivers licenses or passports.
- carcabob 8mo agoThose without driver's licenses or passports can get a state ID card instead, if I'm not mistaken. A pain, but an option.
- efreak 8mo agoIt's actually not a pain. It's the same process as getting a driver's license, minus the test. You go into the DMV and wait in the same lines (at least in California; I have a CA state ID, not a license)
- jsheard 8mo agoDon't you have to be over 18 to get a credit card in the US? How many wouldn't be able to present a CC or ID?
- Denatonium 8mo agoOnly to have your own card. You can be an authorized user on a credit card even if you're under 18.
- jsheard 8mo agoAh right. That's no use for verification then, unless there's a way for payment gateways to distinguish the primary user from their authorized users.
- Gigachad 8mo agoAt least in Australia you absolutely can have a debit card under 18 and it’s extremely common for adults to not have a credit card.
- alright2565 8mo agoID is much easier to forge, it's just a flat 2-d shape. None of the physical security features come through in images.
- junon 8mo agoWhen I had to prove my passport for my bank over a video call they told me to rotate it around in the sunlight to show that it had the holo-whatever ink. So I wouldn't put it past them.
- digiown 8mo agoA call requires a human, which is inherently not scalable. And even humans have trouble distinguishing AI content these days.
- ziml77 8mo agoAnd it's not like Discord actually cares. They just care about appearing like they care. Something to keep the heat off of them from regulators and angry parents.
- uncletscollie 8mo agoDiscord built its own TSA?
- krisoft 8mo agoA “video call” perhaps requires a human, but the type of test described need not be a video call. One can imagine a network trained to distinguish a fake id card from real one from a video recorded where the user is asked to move the card such that the holograph is glinting in the sunlight.
- TheDong 8mo agoIn functioning states, the ID contains a chip with a private key that can be used to sign a message, and ID verification would not be an image of the ID card, but rather holding your phone's NFC reader to the card and signing a message from the site. In Japan, there are already multiple apps which use something like this to verify user's age via the "my number card" + the smartphone's NFC reader. It's more or less impossible to forge without stealing the government's private keys, or infiltrating the government and issuing a fraudulent card. Of course, the US isn't a functioning state, the people don't trust it with their identity and security and would rather simply give all their information to private companies instead.
- beambot 8mo agoPersonal Identity Verification (PIV) and Common Access Card (CAC) credentials used by US government & military via NFC already work on web browsers. States should just move to digital IDs stored on smartphones, with chain of trust up through the secure element...
- esseph 8mo ago> Personal Identity Verification (PIV) and Common Access Card (CAC) credentials used by US government & military via NFC already work on web browsers. States should just move to digital IDs stored on smartphones, with chain of trust up through the secure element... I think you're... missing the point of the pushback. People DO NOT WANT to be identified online, for fear for different types of persecution.
- drnick1 8mo agoThis is extremely dangerous, and would only work with hardware/software that is nonfree (i.e., not under the user's control, or any attestation could be spoofed).
- beambot 8mo agoThis is effectively PKI for personhood. The State DMV acts as the Certificate Authority (CA), signing a "leaf certificate" that is bound to the device's hardware Secure Element. It’s less like a TLS handshake and more like OpenID for Verifiable Presentations (OID4VP). The "non-free" hardware requirement serves as Remote Attestation—it allows a verifier to cryptographically prove that the identity hasn't been cloned or spoofed by a script. The verification happens offline or via a standard web flow using the DMV’s public key to validate the data signature, ensuring the credential is authentic without requiring a phone-home to the issuer.
- esseph 8mo agoSo centralizing control over personhood. Got it.
- Gigachad 8mo agoThe long term solution would have to be some kind of integration with a government platform where the platform doesn’t see your ID and the government doesn’t see what you are signing up for. I don’t this will happen in the US but I can see it in more privacy responding countries. Apple and Google may also add some kind of “child flag” parents can enable which tells websites and apps this user is a child and all age checks should immediately fail.
- Barrin92 8mo agothis is already how the EU infrastructure for digital ID works, basically. Using public/private keys on your national id, the government functions as a root authority that you (and other trusted verifiers downstream) can identify you with and commercial platforms only get a yes/no when you want to identify yourself but have no access to any data. South Korea also has had various versions of this even going back to ~2004 I think.
- Semaphor 8mo agoDo all EU countries have that? I know our (German) ID works that way, using the FOSS AusweisApp, but I hadn’t heard of it being EU-wide (it should be, though).
- fcatalan 8mo agoSpanish ID cards have had an X. 509 cert inside them for more than 10 years, I use it all the time to sign documents and access government sites. There is already legislation and a push for an EU-wide digital identity wallet that should be up and running this year, look up eidas 2.0 and the EUDI wallet. That looks like it should make things like privacy compatible age verification "trivial".
- Semaphor 8mo agoThanks, that looks very cool, and apparently close to coming into effect.
- sieabahlpark 8mo ago[dead]