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The distinction is those are cases where they are murdering Mexican citizens. If a cartel murdered a bus of people in America I suspect most any administration

by infecto 9mo ago

The distinction is those are cases where they are murdering Mexican citizens. If a cartel murdered a bus of people in America I suspect most any administration would retaliate in some form.

reactordev 9mo ago
[flagged]
- _heimdall 9mo ago
  I think the GP was referring to buses on US soil rather than Americans on buses in Mexico.
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    Cartels only strike their own on US soil…
    - infecto 9mo ago
      You’re missing the point. Absolutely cartel violence impacts all types of people in the US and Mexico but large scale brutal violence that is usually saved for Mexico since unfortunately the Mexican federal government does not have control in most of the regions. There is a huge difference between a one off gang killing in the US and someone taking a whole grey hound bus and burying the bodies in the desert.
      - reactordev 9mo ago
        Which is why I bring up their affinity for going after busses of people, because they have, in Mexico… The world does not stop at the Us border.
        _heimdall 9mo ago
        The world obviously doesn't stop st the US border. The point in this thread was that the attacks on buses full of people have, so far stopped at the US border and that it would be a huge, and dangerous, escalation should that change.
- infecto 9mo ago
  “Dude”, murdering a us citizen in Mexico is different than murdering an entire bus of people on US soil. You say it’s happening all the time but then say it’s .01%. Looked it up myself, maybe 40 to 300 people annually. Hard to discern how many of those are pure tourism vs visiting family. I suspect you have a greater risk visiting family, especially if it’s a border town. 13.5mm US citizens visit d Mexico in 2024 so .00002% got kidnapped. I bet that number is even lower when you separate pure tourism vs dual nationals or similar going back home to visit. The point is any action taken on US soil in a large capacity would be seen as an attack by any administration.
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    I never said “In the US” guy
    - infecto 9mo ago
      Why are you being so rude, dude? Your right anything can happen but any large attack on US grounds or equally blowing up a plane on either side of the border is going to bring the full weight of the US on the cartels. It makes little sense. Cartels have for decades ingrained that into their organizations no matter how violent that may be.
      - reactordev 9mo ago
        Dismissing their violence is rude. They are capable and willing to do whatever. As evidenced here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre It's a much bigger problem that you all realize. Right now they have authorized attacks on border patrol agents... I'm not saying that the US wouldn't retaliate, I'm saying our enemies are getting bolder under this administration's pressure. Turns out the closure was because of drones... But it's still a real issue in Mexico that Mexico would love the eradicate.
        infecto 9mo ago
        When did I dismiss the violence? You’re flapping with hyperbole. When the cartels make their first major attack we can circle back on this until then I don’t think there is much to mention. Cartels are powerful but still not as powerful as a first world military. Air assets work wonders against ground targets. Isolated violence or the memo (has not happened yet) that CJNG has authorized hits on border agents are only memos until it starts happening at frequency.
- jghn 9mo ago
  > Dude, Americans are getting kidnapped and murdered in Mexico all the time Dude, can you put some numbers with a citation behind that? Then we can extrapolate a risk ratio and see if it really merits the "all the time" claim.
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    https://cuid.mx/en/blogs/seguridad/la-realidad-de-los-secuestros-en-mexico-datos-y-prevencion-en-2024 https://cuid.mx/en/blogs/seguridad/la-realidad-de-los-secues... https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/criminal-violence-mexico https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/crimina... https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/8f3ac9f0-a827-455f-bf61-1c4142378221 https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/8f3ac9f0-a827-455f-bf61-...
    - jghn 9mo ago
      No one disagreed it happens. You claimed it happened "all the time". Unless I"m missing it, your links don't provide numbers of how many Americans are kidnapped & murdered per year. Further, it'd be useful to compare that to the overall number of American visitors to Mexico. I'm going to go out on a limb and claim it's a small fraction of a percent that find themselves kidnapped & murdered "all the time". But prove me wrong.
- matwood 9mo ago
  Of course things happen sometimes. But, the cartels typically do not want to mess with Americans, particularly in tourist areas, because that brings heat they don't want. It's literally bad for business.

by infecto 9mo ago

The distinction is those are cases where they are murdering Mexican citizens. If a cartel murdered a bus of people in America I suspect most any administration would retaliate in some form.

reactordev 9mo ago

[flagged]

_heimdall 9mo ago
I think the GP was referring to buses on US soil rather than Americans on buses in Mexico.
- reactordev 9mo ago
  Cartels only strike their own on US soil…
  - infecto 9mo ago
    You’re missing the point. Absolutely cartel violence impacts all types of people in the US and Mexico but large scale brutal violence that is usually saved for Mexico since unfortunately the Mexican federal government does not have control in most of the regions. There is a huge difference between a one off gang killing in the US and someone taking a whole grey hound bus and burying the bodies in the desert.
    - reactordev 9mo ago
      Which is why I bring up their affinity for going after busses of people, because they have, in Mexico… The world does not stop at the Us border.
      - _heimdall 9mo ago
        The world obviously doesn't stop st the US border. The point in this thread was that the attacks on buses full of people have, so far stopped at the US border and that it would be a huge, and dangerous, escalation should that change.
infecto 9mo ago
“Dude”, murdering a us citizen in Mexico is different than murdering an entire bus of people on US soil. You say it’s happening all the time but then say it’s .01%. Looked it up myself, maybe 40 to 300 people annually. Hard to discern how many of those are pure tourism vs visiting family. I suspect you have a greater risk visiting family, especially if it’s a border town. 13.5mm US citizens visit d Mexico in 2024 so .00002% got kidnapped. I bet that number is even lower when you separate pure tourism vs dual nationals or similar going back home to visit. The point is any action taken on US soil in a large capacity would be seen as an attack by any administration.
- reactordev 9mo ago
  I never said “In the US” guy
  - infecto 9mo ago
    Why are you being so rude, dude? Your right anything can happen but any large attack on US grounds or equally blowing up a plane on either side of the border is going to bring the full weight of the US on the cartels. It makes little sense. Cartels have for decades ingrained that into their organizations no matter how violent that may be.
    - reactordev 9mo ago
      Dismissing their violence is rude. They are capable and willing to do whatever. As evidenced here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre It's a much bigger problem that you all realize. Right now they have authorized attacks on border patrol agents... I'm not saying that the US wouldn't retaliate, I'm saying our enemies are getting bolder under this administration's pressure. Turns out the closure was because of drones... But it's still a real issue in Mexico that Mexico would love the eradicate.
      - infecto 9mo ago
        When did I dismiss the violence? You’re flapping with hyperbole. When the cartels make their first major attack we can circle back on this until then I don’t think there is much to mention. Cartels are powerful but still not as powerful as a first world military. Air assets work wonders against ground targets. Isolated violence or the memo (has not happened yet) that CJNG has authorized hits on border agents are only memos until it starts happening at frequency.
jghn 9mo ago
> Dude, Americans are getting kidnapped and murdered in Mexico all the time Dude, can you put some numbers with a citation behind that? Then we can extrapolate a risk ratio and see if it really merits the "all the time" claim.
- reactordev 9mo ago
  https://cuid.mx/en/blogs/seguridad/la-realidad-de-los-secuestros-en-mexico-datos-y-prevencion-en-2024 https://cuid.mx/en/blogs/seguridad/la-realidad-de-los-secues... https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/criminal-violence-mexico https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/crimina... https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/8f3ac9f0-a827-455f-bf61-1c4142378221 https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/8f3ac9f0-a827-455f-bf61-...
  - jghn 9mo ago
    No one disagreed it happens. You claimed it happened "all the time". Unless I"m missing it, your links don't provide numbers of how many Americans are kidnapped & murdered per year. Further, it'd be useful to compare that to the overall number of American visitors to Mexico. I'm going to go out on a limb and claim it's a small fraction of a percent that find themselves kidnapped & murdered "all the time". But prove me wrong.
matwood 9mo ago
Of course things happen sometimes. But, the cartels typically do not want to mess with Americans, particularly in tourist areas, because that brings heat they don't want. It's literally bad for business.