5 ms·

Right, because we know that parents never pass down useful skills or life tips to their children, like skepticism of propaganda and advertising, and instead sen

by SR2Z 8mo ago

Right, because we know that parents never pass down useful skills or life tips to their children, like skepticism of propaganda and advertising, and instead send their children into the world like sheep into a lion's den. There might come a day when advertising is too flawless for a human mind to resist it, but we're not there yet.

somenameforme 8mo ago
Most of everybody thinks their behaviors and decisions are not meaningfully influenced by advertising. Companies spend literally trillions of dollars running ads. One side is right, one side is wrong. And advertising largely relies on this ignorance of its effects, or otherwise most of everybody would go to much greater lengths to limit their exposures to such, and governments would be more inclined to regulate the ad industry as a goal in and of itself.
- cm2012 8mo ago
  Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands. None of them rely on weird ad magic to persuade people secretly - just showing off different aspects of the product or service.
  - anonymars 8mo ago
    Um, off the top of my head: "You'll be happier if you purchase this thing" "You're not good enough as you are now, but you will be if you purchase this thing" "Other people you admire or respect have purchased this thing, and if you do too you'll be more like them" "Other people will like you more if you purchase this thing" "You'll be more attractive if you purchase this thing" "This thing will be worth more in the future so if you purchase this thing it will make you money" "This is your only chance to purchase this thing, so if you don't it now you'll miss out on this price" I don't think any of them has to do with how awesome "the thing" itself is. Obviously there's more to, say, an expensive watch, than its ability to tell time
    - cm2012 8mo ago
      The only products that sell this in advertising actually provide those brand features. Essentially people pay money to increase their perceived status. Like, if you sell a luxury handbag. When people buy it, they know 70% of the value comes from the advertising saying "this is a high value product" as a status signal. I think that's really dumb, but that's what people want. It also existed a long time before ads itself did.
      - Dylan16807 8mo ago
        So you've never seen like, a beer ad that promises status and attractiveness?
        cm2012 8mo ago
        Beer/liquor is in the same category of status good. People pay a lot to show the brand.
        Dylan16807 8mo ago
        Some liquor brands are like that. 95% or more of beer ads that imply status are just lying to you.
        anonymars 8mo ago
        Similarly, something must have been missing from the AXE body spray instructions
      - tremon 8mo ago
        > they know 70% of the value comes from the advertising So, you are aware that advertising is in large part responsible for shaping what is perceived as high-value status signals in society. You're also aware that for certain products the only distinction between those and their alternatives is that specific high-value association. How come you started out from the position that advertising is "just showing off different aspects of the product" then?
    - 8mo ago
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    > Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". This is such a naive view of advertising that if you're really this unaware of how manipulative ads are, you can't possibly have defenses against them. You should seriously spend some time looking into the secret magic of dark psychology they use to manipulate people because while knowing about their tactics won't make you immune to them, it really can help to be aware of how they work and to train yourself to recognize when they're being used against you.
    - bryan_w 8mo ago
      I don't know, I just went to find an ad in my feed and the first one was for a house plant that was easy to take care of. I'm not saying I'm the smartest cookie in the shed, but I didn't detect any manipulation. Seems like it was a person who just wanted me to know about their product. Let me know what I'm missing.
      - autoexec 8mo ago
        I haven't seen the plant ad, but it sounds like once you start learning about how the ad industry works your mind will be blown. Insane amounts of money have been poured into research by the industry (including some highly questionable research being done on children and infants) and some of the results are fascinating. The manipulation goes beyond even the content of the ads themselves. For example, one of the reasons companies are spending so much money collecting/buying/storing/securing every scrap of data they can get about you and your life is so that they can target ads at you at specific times when they know you'll be more vulnerable such as times when they know you'd normally be tired, or when they think your medication may be wearing off, or during periods where you're under high stress, or when you might be entering a manic phase, or when you're intoxicated, etc. Like I said, understanding the many many ways that you are vulnerable to their tricks can help but it won't stop them from working on you. It's kind of like how you can't not see certain optical illusions even though you know you're interpreting them incorrectly. The conclusion I've come to is that it's best to do everything you can to avoid exposure to advertising where possible and to keep an eye out for when those tricks are being used against you elsewhere.
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    I can't remember ever seeing an ad that was just showing off different aspects of the product or service, outside of things like Craigslist.
  - freejazz 8mo ago
    >Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands Oh, okay. Well if you say so.
- SR2Z 8mo ago
  No, this take is crazy. If ads were able to brainwash people Coca-Cola would still be the most popular drink in America. The problem with "meaningfully influenced" is that a 1% bump in sales is massive for a company, but normally only represents a very minor shift in customer behavior. US spending on advertising is, in total, about $1200/person-year. If you believe that advertisers are rapacious capitalists who will take as much as they possibly can, then they only believe that they can capture about that much extra per person by advertising to them. That's not nothing, but it's not very much either. Ads are extremely overblown as a threat to society; you only need to look as far as eye-tracking studies of web browsers and the prevalence of ad blockers to see pretty good proof that people do just ignore them most of the time.
  - vladvasiliu 8mo ago
    I'm firmly in the camp of "I'm not influenced by ads (or so I think)" / "not convinced that ads are actually a net positive". But even so, I don't fully agree with your take. I think that it's very possible to think we aren't influenced, yet still be. My reasoning is that basically no one admits to being influenced. Yet you can definitely see the effects of ads on people: whenever there's a strong campaign for something, little after you'll see everyone buying it. Maybe they just try to "follow trends" or whatever, but that's just a form of advertising, isn't it? I only very rarely watch TV and have ad blockers everywhere, yet I can still detect when all of a sudden everybody has the same bag or same jacket or whatever. My bags last years and years. I doubt it's simply a coincidence and they all needed new bags right at the same time. > Ads are extremely overblown as a threat to society; you only need to look as far as eye-tracking studies of web browsers and the prevalence of ad blockers to see pretty good proof that people do just ignore them most of the time. I think that many people don't know about ad-blockers and try to ignore the ads while reading a website or scrolling some app. But that doesn't imply they aren't influenced. In my case, I'm fairly convinced that I'm not influenced by my instagram's feed's ads, since they try to sell me pregnant women's garments, of which I have 0 use as a single, childless male. But there can be other factors of which I don't have conscience, like seeing people use the same brand camera or whatever. Call it advertising-by-proxy. However, take a look at people's screens when taking the metro or whatever. Many do watch the ads instead of just scrolling past. This is what I actually have a hard time understanding: people would spend a comparable amount of time on what looks like ads and what looks like their friends' stuff, as if it was the same thing. Which, granted, isn't a very long time. In my case, I only follow photographers and would spend a fair amount of time on people's pictures but scroll right through anything that looks like an ad (text or video of any kind).
coryrc 8mo ago
USA here: our schools brainwash children to remove that skepticism. It makes them easier to control and order is very important to the kind of person who becomes a teacher. Seattle area, they're brainwashing my children to celebrate the "seahawks" team. They came home yesterday being excited that team won the superbowl. I ask "why do you care? You don't like to watch football, none of your friends like to play it". Hard to influence when the kid is there 6.5 hours every day.
- irishcoffee 8mo ago
  My dad was a lot like you. He would shit on things I was excited about that he didn’t like. We haven’t talked in years.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - coryrc 8mo ago
    Ah, don't worry. He'd forgotten ten minutes later and I later took him rock climbing, which he actually loves and I support him doing despite me being terrified of heights.
    - irishcoffee 8mo ago
      I bullshitted my dad a lot too because I wanted to try and make him happy.
- linkregister 8mo ago
  My child's San Francisco Bay Area school has taught media literacy / skepticism every year since 3rd grade. Curricula are determined by the teacher, but N=1 is sufficient for a counterexample for a broad country-wide generalization. Celebrating a local sports win is about as apolitical and low-harm as possible when it comes to promoting a shared cultural bond for a community.
  - 8mo ago

by SR2Z 8mo ago

somenameforme 8mo ago

Most of everybody thinks their behaviors and decisions are not meaningfully influenced by advertising. Companies spend literally trillions of dollars running ads. One side is right, one side is wrong. And advertising largely relies on this ignorance of its effects, or otherwise most of everybody would go to much greater lengths to limit their exposures to such, and governments would be more inclined to regulate the ad industry as a goal in and of itself.

cm2012 8mo ago
Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands. None of them rely on weird ad magic to persuade people secretly - just showing off different aspects of the product or service.
- anonymars 8mo ago
  Um, off the top of my head: "You'll be happier if you purchase this thing" "You're not good enough as you are now, but you will be if you purchase this thing" "Other people you admire or respect have purchased this thing, and if you do too you'll be more like them" "Other people will like you more if you purchase this thing" "You'll be more attractive if you purchase this thing" "This thing will be worth more in the future so if you purchase this thing it will make you money" "This is your only chance to purchase this thing, so if you don't it now you'll miss out on this price" I don't think any of them has to do with how awesome "the thing" itself is. Obviously there's more to, say, an expensive watch, than its ability to tell time
  - cm2012 8mo ago
    The only products that sell this in advertising actually provide those brand features. Essentially people pay money to increase their perceived status. Like, if you sell a luxury handbag. When people buy it, they know 70% of the value comes from the advertising saying "this is a high value product" as a status signal. I think that's really dumb, but that's what people want. It also existed a long time before ads itself did.
    - Dylan16807 8mo ago
      So you've never seen like, a beer ad that promises status and attractiveness?
      - cm2012 8mo ago
        Beer/liquor is in the same category of status good. People pay a lot to show the brand.
        Dylan16807 8mo ago
        Some liquor brands are like that. 95% or more of beer ads that imply status are just lying to you.
      - anonymars 8mo ago
        Similarly, something must have been missing from the AXE body spray instructions
    - tremon 8mo ago
      > they know 70% of the value comes from the advertising So, you are aware that advertising is in large part responsible for shaping what is perceived as high-value status signals in society. You're also aware that for certain products the only distinction between those and their alternatives is that specific high-value association. How come you started out from the position that advertising is "just showing off different aspects of the product" then?
  - 8mo ago
- autoexec 8mo ago
  > Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". This is such a naive view of advertising that if you're really this unaware of how manipulative ads are, you can't possibly have defenses against them. You should seriously spend some time looking into the secret magic of dark psychology they use to manipulate people because while knowing about their tactics won't make you immune to them, it really can help to be aware of how they work and to train yourself to recognize when they're being used against you.
  - bryan_w 8mo ago
    I don't know, I just went to find an ad in my feed and the first one was for a house plant that was easy to take care of. I'm not saying I'm the smartest cookie in the shed, but I didn't detect any manipulation. Seems like it was a person who just wanted me to know about their product. Let me know what I'm missing.
    - autoexec 8mo ago
      I haven't seen the plant ad, but it sounds like once you start learning about how the ad industry works your mind will be blown. Insane amounts of money have been poured into research by the industry (including some highly questionable research being done on children and infants) and some of the results are fascinating. The manipulation goes beyond even the content of the ads themselves. For example, one of the reasons companies are spending so much money collecting/buying/storing/securing every scrap of data they can get about you and your life is so that they can target ads at you at specific times when they know you'll be more vulnerable such as times when they know you'd normally be tired, or when they think your medication may be wearing off, or during periods where you're under high stress, or when you might be entering a manic phase, or when you're intoxicated, etc. Like I said, understanding the many many ways that you are vulnerable to their tricks can help but it won't stop them from working on you. It's kind of like how you can't not see certain optical illusions even though you know you're interpreting them incorrectly. The conclusion I've come to is that it's best to do everything you can to avoid exposure to advertising where possible and to keep an eye out for when those tricks are being used against you elsewhere.
- wat10000 8mo ago
  I can't remember ever seeing an ad that was just showing off different aspects of the product or service, outside of things like Craigslist.
- freejazz 8mo ago
  >Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands Oh, okay. Well if you say so.
SR2Z 8mo ago
No, this take is crazy. If ads were able to brainwash people Coca-Cola would still be the most popular drink in America. The problem with "meaningfully influenced" is that a 1% bump in sales is massive for a company, but normally only represents a very minor shift in customer behavior. US spending on advertising is, in total, about $1200/person-year. If you believe that advertisers are rapacious capitalists who will take as much as they possibly can, then they only believe that they can capture about that much extra per person by advertising to them. That's not nothing, but it's not very much either. Ads are extremely overblown as a threat to society; you only need to look as far as eye-tracking studies of web browsers and the prevalence of ad blockers to see pretty good proof that people do just ignore them most of the time.
- vladvasiliu 8mo ago
  I'm firmly in the camp of "I'm not influenced by ads (or so I think)" / "not convinced that ads are actually a net positive". But even so, I don't fully agree with your take. I think that it's very possible to think we aren't influenced, yet still be. My reasoning is that basically no one admits to being influenced. Yet you can definitely see the effects of ads on people: whenever there's a strong campaign for something, little after you'll see everyone buying it. Maybe they just try to "follow trends" or whatever, but that's just a form of advertising, isn't it? I only very rarely watch TV and have ad blockers everywhere, yet I can still detect when all of a sudden everybody has the same bag or same jacket or whatever. My bags last years and years. I doubt it's simply a coincidence and they all needed new bags right at the same time. > Ads are extremely overblown as a threat to society; you only need to look as far as eye-tracking studies of web browsers and the prevalence of ad blockers to see pretty good proof that people do just ignore them most of the time. I think that many people don't know about ad-blockers and try to ignore the ads while reading a website or scrolling some app. But that doesn't imply they aren't influenced. In my case, I'm fairly convinced that I'm not influenced by my instagram's feed's ads, since they try to sell me pregnant women's garments, of which I have 0 use as a single, childless male. But there can be other factors of which I don't have conscience, like seeing people use the same brand camera or whatever. Call it advertising-by-proxy. However, take a look at people's screens when taking the metro or whatever. Many do watch the ads instead of just scrolling past. This is what I actually have a hard time understanding: people would spend a comparable amount of time on what looks like ads and what looks like their friends' stuff, as if it was the same thing. Which, granted, isn't a very long time. In my case, I only follow photographers and would spend a fair amount of time on people's pictures but scroll right through anything that looks like an ad (text or video of any kind).

coryrc 8mo ago

USA here: our schools brainwash children to remove that skepticism. It makes them easier to control and order is very important to the kind of person who becomes a teacher. Seattle area, they're brainwashing my children to celebrate the "seahawks" team. They came home yesterday being excited that team won the superbowl. I ask "why do you care? You don't like to watch football, none of your friends like to play it". Hard to influence when the kid is there 6.5 hours every day.

irishcoffee 8mo ago
My dad was a lot like you. He would shit on things I was excited about that he didn’t like. We haven’t talked in years.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- coryrc 8mo ago
  Ah, don't worry. He'd forgotten ten minutes later and I later took him rock climbing, which he actually loves and I support him doing despite me being terrified of heights.
  - irishcoffee 8mo ago
    I bullshitted my dad a lot too because I wanted to try and make him happy.
linkregister 8mo ago
My child's San Francisco Bay Area school has taught media literacy / skepticism every year since 3rd grade. Curricula are determined by the teacher, but N=1 is sufficient for a counterexample for a broad country-wide generalization. Celebrating a local sports win is about as apolitical and low-harm as possible when it comes to promoting a shared cultural bond for a community.
- 8mo ago