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It's frustrating because someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster. And it results in you having to travel slower and slower to

It's frustrating because someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster. And it results in you having to travel slower and slower to maintain the gap that is constantly consumed, tragedy of the commons style, by opportunists.

a_e_k 9mo ago
Not to mention if that if somebody needs to come over, the proper thing to do is signal first. Then I'm happy to politely ease off a bit and open more space for them to come over safely. It's the people who aggressively slide right over just a few feet in front of me (cutting off nearly all of my safety buffer) without so much as a signal that really drive me nuts.
- maerF0x0 9mo ago
  It's the people who hit the gas when they see your signal, that really irk me. In Austin I stopped signaling because it was a punished behavior.
  - genocidicbunny 9mo ago
    My experience driving in MA and NY was similar, but so often it was because a rusted out shitbox was trying to merge in that would slow down traffic significantly, and not only put me at risk of rear ending them, but being rear ended myself. When flows merge, there's turbulence. There's less turbulence if the flows are more closely matched, including speed.
  - StillBored 9mo ago
    In Austin too, and probably just caused a driver to think the same thing. They were in the left lane on a frontage road which was suddenly turning left even though there was an entire lane opposite the intersection blocked off by those plastic things that seem popular to randomly place in the road these days. I saw them hesitate and figured they wanted to merge right, so i decelerated a bit to add another car length or or so, at maybe 10-15mph. They had plenty of space, flipped on their blinker, and instead of just merging started slowing down, to which I decided I wasn't going to brake more to allow them to block myself and everyone else from rolling through the intersection. They basically stopped in their lane, and beeped as I rolled by, to which someone behind them beeped at them for blocking the lane. In Austin if you want to merge, decide if you can, blink and then merge. Don't expect people to stomp on their brakes and stop to let you in, especially if your already traveling slower than the lane you are trying to get into and decide to further slow yourself. And if you can't merge, deal with it, exit, or miss your exit and go around. Next time you will be more prepared or you will learn how to properly merge.
- genocidicbunny 9mo ago
  Unless I'm the last car in a line and there's plenty of open space behind me. Then you should just wait until after I've passed before merging, because otherwise you create a little ripple in the flow. A few ripples and you got a wave, and that's how you get traffic. So for the love of gods, if you're merging, even if you signal, match speeds for merging. If you're too slow to match speed, then suck it up buttercup, and hang out in the right lane until there's an opening.
- chaz6 9mo ago
  In the UK we are taught that you should not signal until you are ready to manoeuvre. If you follow the rules exactly this can put you in the unfortunate position of being penned in behind shower traffic.
c22 9mo ago
It seems like a tragedy, but actually it can be a boon as long as you travel in neither the leftmost nor rightmost lane. The majority of the traffic entering your buffer will be exiting your buffer out the other side as soon as they can, so you can just chug along at a (greatly reduced, but) consistent speed. Meanwhile, the traffic to either side of you is in standstill, paralyzed by your bow wake.
- Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
  It's wild to me how often the left lane is not the fastest lane. I've had times where the right lane ends up being the fastest. On I-5 near Woodburn, OR, it's 3 lanes. So many drivers, including truckers, will often stay out of the right lane entirely to avoid being caught up in traffic coming on/off. Meanwhile, the left lane is going 5 mph under the limit because there's a left-lane camper somewhere miles ahead. So I can fly past everybody in the right lane because there's actually barely any traffic coming on/off and everybody is avoiding the right lane for no reason at all.
  - maerF0x0 9mo ago
    It's not the fastest often because it's oversubscribed and people do not understand that the car has a 3rd, mostly underuntilized, state of neither pedal depressed (ie "coasting") ... so they create cascading braking pileups ...
    - crest 9mo ago
      If everyone that had it turned adaptive cruise control sigh.
      - Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
        So many people don't even use regular cruise control. They'll have nobody in front of them for miles and their speed yo-yos between 60 and 65 mph. And if you pass them because your cruise is set at 66 mph, they'll speed up to match, but then eventually decide to pass you, get in front, and slow back down to 60. The only way to end the stupid cycle is to go 70-75 mph until there's at least 1/4 mile between the two of you.
mmooss 9mo ago
That is a paranoid-survival oriented perspective. > someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster Nobody is 'taking' something; we're all just sharing the road, and at little cost. People change lanes for many reasons, and sometimes to pass someone else and travel faster. That's what the left lane (if we're talking about the US) is for. > results in you having to travel slower and slower to maintain the gap that is constantly consumed, I understand the theory but that hasn't happened in my experience. And even if five or ten cars got in front of you, how much distance is that? A random Internet site says the average midsize car is 16 feet; add 220 ft safe driving distance at 75 mph (says another random website), so let's say 240 ft per car x 10 cars is 2400 ft. In that extreme circumstance, it will cost you ~30 seconds. It's self-fulfilling: If you act aggressively toward other drivers, they will respond in kind. If you treat them respectfully and politely, they act the same way toward you. People behave well and kindly, naturally. We are social creatures.
ehnto 9mo ago
Slow down a bit to create another buffer. You can even do this before they have merged, as part of the bit where you allow them to safely merge. I think if you reflect a bit you'll find you are being the same kind of person as them, if you are getting angry that you have to slow down and give up space for someone else. I understand some people can be aggressive though, that can be frustrating regardless of the outcome.
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  I don't think you're understanding. The point is that 20 people in a row will take advantage of your buffer to slow you down again and again and again, which makes you get to your destination later... because they're being selfish to get somewhere faster, and you're not so you get to where you're going slower. We're not talking about where they're changing lanes to take the next exit. We're talking about where your lane happens to be moving faster, so they merge in front of you in an unsafe way to take advantage of that and just stay there. Why should you be expected to give them space, as you suggest? How is that fair, that they should get to their destination faster instead of you? Do you not see how that's going to rightfully make someone angry? When they should be waiting for a safe space to open up, rather than forcing you to slow down to create one?
  - carshodev 9mo ago
    If you actually want the safest option then you should merge all the way right and keep slowing down. Noone is going to merge right if they are trying to go faster, they will only do it to get off the offramp. Meaning the gap will reopen as people exit through the offramp or merge left into faster lanes. If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible. I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane.
    - crazygringo 9mo ago
      > If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible. It's not about choosing to go in the fast lane. It's about the fact that in heavy traffic, you have no idea which lane will be fastest, because they're all heavy and which one is fastest keeps switching. > I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane. That's exactly my point. Which is why you can be in the right lane, and tons of people from the slower lane will try to merge in front of you if you're keeping a safe distance from the car in front. Your advice is staying in the right lane doesn't apply in these situations.
themafia 9mo ago
> as their opportunity to travel faster You're ascribing motive where you have no data to do so. > travel slower and slower Roads near capacity slow down. This capacity surge is typically highly predictable. > tragedy of the commons style, by opportunists. People can only drive one car. They cannot drive two at the same time to get there twice as fast. I don't think this logic applies.
erpellan 9mo ago
But you’re not getting slower and slower for every car. Lets say 100 cars pull in front of you, and let’s be say each car adds 5 metres of space, so you have 500 metres of ‘lost’ space to regain. At 30 mph how much later will you be? 37 seconds. I’ll take that trade.
- tpm 9mo ago
  > let’s be say each car adds 5 metres of space At over 100 km/h that would be ideally 5m for a car and 70m for a safe distance between each one so 7,5km, which is 4.5 minutes at 100 km/h or 9 minutes at 30 mph.
direwolf20 9mo ago
Someone else is taking your safety buffer as an opportunity to travel at all. This exemplifies the problem with America. People will cut off their own welfare to make sure their neighbor doesn't get any either.
fluidcruft 9mo ago
Or... you just drive so slow the gap is constantly growing. You can focus on fuel economy instead.

a_e_k 9mo ago

Not to mention if that if somebody needs to come over, the proper thing to do is signal first. Then I'm happy to politely ease off a bit and open more space for them to come over safely. It's the people who aggressively slide right over just a few feet in front of me (cutting off nearly all of my safety buffer) without so much as a signal that really drive me nuts.

maerF0x0 9mo ago
It's the people who hit the gas when they see your signal, that really irk me. In Austin I stopped signaling because it was a punished behavior.
- genocidicbunny 9mo ago
  My experience driving in MA and NY was similar, but so often it was because a rusted out shitbox was trying to merge in that would slow down traffic significantly, and not only put me at risk of rear ending them, but being rear ended myself. When flows merge, there's turbulence. There's less turbulence if the flows are more closely matched, including speed.
- StillBored 9mo ago
  In Austin too, and probably just caused a driver to think the same thing. They were in the left lane on a frontage road which was suddenly turning left even though there was an entire lane opposite the intersection blocked off by those plastic things that seem popular to randomly place in the road these days. I saw them hesitate and figured they wanted to merge right, so i decelerated a bit to add another car length or or so, at maybe 10-15mph. They had plenty of space, flipped on their blinker, and instead of just merging started slowing down, to which I decided I wasn't going to brake more to allow them to block myself and everyone else from rolling through the intersection. They basically stopped in their lane, and beeped as I rolled by, to which someone behind them beeped at them for blocking the lane. In Austin if you want to merge, decide if you can, blink and then merge. Don't expect people to stomp on their brakes and stop to let you in, especially if your already traveling slower than the lane you are trying to get into and decide to further slow yourself. And if you can't merge, deal with it, exit, or miss your exit and go around. Next time you will be more prepared or you will learn how to properly merge.
genocidicbunny 9mo ago
Unless I'm the last car in a line and there's plenty of open space behind me. Then you should just wait until after I've passed before merging, because otherwise you create a little ripple in the flow. A few ripples and you got a wave, and that's how you get traffic. So for the love of gods, if you're merging, even if you signal, match speeds for merging. If you're too slow to match speed, then suck it up buttercup, and hang out in the right lane until there's an opening.
chaz6 9mo ago
In the UK we are taught that you should not signal until you are ready to manoeuvre. If you follow the rules exactly this can put you in the unfortunate position of being penned in behind shower traffic.

c22 9mo ago

It seems like a tragedy, but actually it can be a boon as long as you travel in neither the leftmost nor rightmost lane. The majority of the traffic entering your buffer will be exiting your buffer out the other side as soon as they can, so you can just chug along at a (greatly reduced, but) consistent speed. Meanwhile, the traffic to either side of you is in standstill, paralyzed by your bow wake.

Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
It's wild to me how often the left lane is not the fastest lane. I've had times where the right lane ends up being the fastest. On I-5 near Woodburn, OR, it's 3 lanes. So many drivers, including truckers, will often stay out of the right lane entirely to avoid being caught up in traffic coming on/off. Meanwhile, the left lane is going 5 mph under the limit because there's a left-lane camper somewhere miles ahead. So I can fly past everybody in the right lane because there's actually barely any traffic coming on/off and everybody is avoiding the right lane for no reason at all.
- maerF0x0 9mo ago
  It's not the fastest often because it's oversubscribed and people do not understand that the car has a 3rd, mostly underuntilized, state of neither pedal depressed (ie "coasting") ... so they create cascading braking pileups ...
  - crest 9mo ago
    If everyone that had it turned adaptive cruise control sigh.
    - Sohcahtoa82 9mo ago
      So many people don't even use regular cruise control. They'll have nobody in front of them for miles and their speed yo-yos between 60 and 65 mph. And if you pass them because your cruise is set at 66 mph, they'll speed up to match, but then eventually decide to pass you, get in front, and slow back down to 60. The only way to end the stupid cycle is to go 70-75 mph until there's at least 1/4 mile between the two of you.

mmooss 9mo ago

That is a paranoid-survival oriented perspective. > someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster Nobody is 'taking' something; we're all just sharing the road, and at little cost. People change lanes for many reasons, and sometimes to pass someone else and travel faster. That's what the left lane (if we're talking about the US) is for. > results in you having to travel slower and slower to maintain the gap that is constantly consumed, I understand the theory but that hasn't happened in my experience. And even if five or ten cars got in front of you, how much distance is that? A random Internet site says the average midsize car is 16 feet; add 220 ft safe driving distance at 75 mph (says another random website), so let's say 240 ft per car x 10 cars is 2400 ft. In that extreme circumstance, it will cost you ~30 seconds. It's self-fulfilling: If you act aggressively toward other drivers, they will respond in kind. If you treat them respectfully and politely, they act the same way toward you. People behave well and kindly, naturally. We are social creatures.

ehnto 9mo ago

Slow down a bit to create another buffer. You can even do this before they have merged, as part of the bit where you allow them to safely merge. I think if you reflect a bit you'll find you are being the same kind of person as them, if you are getting angry that you have to slow down and give up space for someone else. I understand some people can be aggressive though, that can be frustrating regardless of the outcome.

crazygringo 9mo ago
I don't think you're understanding. The point is that 20 people in a row will take advantage of your buffer to slow you down again and again and again, which makes you get to your destination later... because they're being selfish to get somewhere faster, and you're not so you get to where you're going slower. We're not talking about where they're changing lanes to take the next exit. We're talking about where your lane happens to be moving faster, so they merge in front of you in an unsafe way to take advantage of that and just stay there. Why should you be expected to give them space, as you suggest? How is that fair, that they should get to their destination faster instead of you? Do you not see how that's going to rightfully make someone angry? When they should be waiting for a safe space to open up, rather than forcing you to slow down to create one?
- carshodev 9mo ago
  If you actually want the safest option then you should merge all the way right and keep slowing down. Noone is going to merge right if they are trying to go faster, they will only do it to get off the offramp. Meaning the gap will reopen as people exit through the offramp or merge left into faster lanes. If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible. I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane.
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    > If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible. It's not about choosing to go in the fast lane. It's about the fact that in heavy traffic, you have no idea which lane will be fastest, because they're all heavy and which one is fastest keeps switching. > I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane. That's exactly my point. Which is why you can be in the right lane, and tons of people from the slower lane will try to merge in front of you if you're keeping a safe distance from the car in front. Your advice is staying in the right lane doesn't apply in these situations.

themafia 9mo ago

> as their opportunity to travel faster You're ascribing motive where you have no data to do so. > travel slower and slower Roads near capacity slow down. This capacity surge is typically highly predictable. > tragedy of the commons style, by opportunists. People can only drive one car. They cannot drive two at the same time to get there twice as fast. I don't think this logic applies.

erpellan 9mo ago

But you’re not getting slower and slower for every car. Lets say 100 cars pull in front of you, and let’s be say each car adds 5 metres of space, so you have 500 metres of ‘lost’ space to regain. At 30 mph how much later will you be? 37 seconds. I’ll take that trade.

tpm 9mo ago
> let’s be say each car adds 5 metres of space At over 100 km/h that would be ideally 5m for a car and 70m for a safe distance between each one so 7,5km, which is 4.5 minutes at 100 km/h or 9 minutes at 30 mph.

direwolf20 9mo ago

Someone else is taking your safety buffer as an opportunity to travel at all. This exemplifies the problem with America. People will cut off their own welfare to make sure their neighbor doesn't get any either.

fluidcruft 9mo ago

Or... you just drive so slow the gap is constantly growing. You can focus on fuel economy instead.