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The first sodium-ion battery EV is a winter range monster

174 points by andrewjneumann 8mo ago

pkulak 8mo ago
If this is “on par” with LFP energy density, I’m not sure there’s any need for LFP now. Sodium ion seems to thoroughly beat it in every other metric.
- woeirua 8mo ago
  I haven’t seen any info on charging speed. Can you recharge these as quickly as LFP?
  - jillesvangurp 8mo ago
    CATL's Naxtra cells apparently have a c rating of 5C. Which boils down to about 12 minutes for a full charge with the right charger. So, as fast or faster than LFP would be the answer here.
    - rootusrootus 8mo ago
      If they have a 5C rating from 0 to 100 that would be a real game changer. I look forward to the days we don't need caveats like "only up to 80%".
      - jillesvangurp 8mo ago
        100% is a soft limit in many batteries. The battery management system actually prevents you from charging too much. Pushing it too far can damage the battery so they don't let you completely charge it. A lot of EV drivers optimize to minimize waiting time. Mostly you try to charge while you are doing something else (sleeping, working, eating, shopping, etc.). So, you are not actually waiting for it and sitting in the car bored. Charging speeds are non linear. The last few percent take a bit more waiting. But you don't actually have to charge the battery to 100% all the time. Two 10-80% charge breaks might be a lot less less time than one 10-100% charge break and it will get you a lot more miles. When you are driving long distance, you can plan to top up while having breaks, lunch, etc. Just top it back up to whatever the time allows. You don't have to drive the battery to empty either. And destination charging is a thing as well. You can trade off not having to stop for a bit more against the charging time. Charging to 100% at night is a good use of time. Because you are probably sleeping/resting. Interrupting your journey to do the same is probably not a great use of your time. Two 10-80% charge breaks might be a lot less less time than one 10-100% charge break and it will get you a lot more miles. Of course on longer journeys, planning for 45 minute charging breaks is a lot more annoying than planning for 15 minute charging breaks. Which is what 5C charging should enable given the right cell and charger combination. With a normal EV (medium sized battery) that's once every 3-4 hours roughly. A bit longer if your car is more economical with the battery. That's actually not a horrible frequency for taking a short break. Even if you drive a petrol car. And if you are really anxious about that, get an EV with a bigger battery. 300 miles. 400 miles. There are even some 500 mile batteries in some cars now. It will cost you of course. Financially it's probably not a great choice for most people.
        NetMageSCW 8mo ago
        Most people posting about 80% seem to talking about charging at home. If you are charging overnight, why are you restricting charge level if it doesn’t really matter to longevity? Is it just left over advice that no longer applies?
- loeg 8mo ago
  On par on a per kg basis, but is it on par on a volume basis? If it takes up more space, that might pose packaging challenges relative to LFP.
  - adrian_b 8mo ago
    Sodium has greater density than lithium, while most other materials used in a battery have similar densities regardless if sodium or lithium is used, so if a Na-ion battery and a LFP battery have about the same mass and stored energy, it is likely that the sodium-ion battery has a smaller volume.
    - PunchyHamster 8mo ago
      that doesn't check out, capacity depends on surface area, if the element that is on the surface is heavier then, all other things equal, the battery will be heavier for same kWh. Sodium would need to be more efficient to be lighter, which it isn't
      - adrian_b 8mo ago
        The maximum deliverable power depends on electrode area, through the maximum current density. The capacity of storing energy does not depend at all on area, but only on the mass of sodium contained in the battery and on the efficiency of using it (i.e. between full discharge and full charge not 100% of the sodium or lithium is cycled between the 2 oxidation states, but a fraction, e.g. 90%). Any battery has both an energy density and a power density, which are weakly correlated and the correlation may have opposite signs, i.e. for some batteries it may be possible to increase the power density if the energy density is lowered and vice-versa. For a given stored energy in kWh, the required mass of sodium is several times greater than the corresponding mass of lithium, by a factor that is the product of the atomic mass ratio with the ratio between the battery voltages. The voltages are similar, with a slight advantage for sodium, so the required mass of sodium is about 3 times the corresponding mass of lithium. If the complete batteries have about the same mass, that means that other components of the sodium-ion battery are smaller and/or lighter.
  - 8mo ago
- adrian_b 8mo ago
  I have no idea about the characteristics of these new sodium-ion batteries, but there is a great likelihood that they auto-discharge much faster than LFP batteries. This means that if you do not use the car for some time, you may need to recharge it before you can use it again. This may be a problem if the car is left far from a charger. Otherwise I agree with what you said.
  - NetMageSCW 8mo ago
    citation needed
lightedman 8mo ago
I suspect we will be finding this technology being used a fair bit in aerospace tech like satellites to compliment the onboard solar, given the low-temp operational capability.
- gpm 8mo ago
  Do satellite batteries run cold? Given the difficulty of radiating heat away I would have expected the opposite. Especially considering the incentive to send up as little battery as possible, and the very predictable day/night cycle leading to the ability to precisely predict how small a battery you can get away with...
  - rcxdude 8mo ago
    Generally it's hard to control: it'll be hot sometimes and cold other times, so a wide operating time is useful.
letharion 8mo ago
What I wanted to know from the article: The CATL Naxtra sodium-ion battery will debut in the Changan Nevo A06 sedan, delivering an estimated range of around 400 kilometers (249 miles) on the China Light-Duty Test Cycle. and It delivers 175 watt-hours per kilogram of energy density, which is lower than nickel-rich chemistries but roughly on par with LFP
- johanvts 8mo ago
  Thanks, I wanted to know about price. Isn't that the main benefit of sodium-ion. On par energy density with LFP, but a lot cheaper.
  - PunchyHamster 8mo ago
    *potentially a lot cheaper. I've seen that repeated a lot but I still can't buy sodium batteries cheaper than lifepo...
    - wirybeige 8mo ago
      Sodium batteries don't yet have the scale that lifepo4 batteries have. I'd expect we will see them get cheaper.
  - jbm 8mo ago
    I thought the price differential was not going to happen as there was a serious drop in the price of Lithium over the past year; but I looked it up and the lithium price drop is more a 5 year trend, with the last few months having a sudden surge in the price. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium
    - hunterpayne 8mo ago
      Increased production of Lithium is why. However, that only drains the (very limited) reserves of Lithium more quickly. Currently we have about 75 years left of it at previous extraction rates. More could be found, that is unlikely.
Flavius 8mo ago
Retaining 90% range at -40°C sounds like a game changer, almost too good to be true. I'm definitely going to need to see some third-party real-world range tests to validate those claims before getting too excited.
- tedd4u 8mo ago
  And human occupants will still run the heater more in winter. But it sounds like there could be a future where makers offer a sodium battery and heat pump version of their cars for sale in colder climates.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    > future where makers offer a sodium battery and heat pump version AFAIK most EVs already use heat pumps today, so the future happens whenever sodium batteries become mainstream.
    - cosmic_cheese 8mo ago
      IIRC there are some surprising holdouts, at least in the NA market. For example as far as I'm aware the Mustang Mach-E still ships with a resistive heater.
      - rootusrootus 8mo ago
        > Mustang Mach-E still ships with a resistive heater Nope, the Mach E and Lightning both have a heat pump (well, just the Mach E now, I suppose, since the Lightning is out of production).
        tzs 8mo ago
        It should be noted that started with the 2025 model. Earlier Mach-Es just had resistance heating.
    - formerly_proven 8mo ago
instagib 8mo ago
“As always, we’ll have to wait for independent testing for real-world results.” interested in hot desert weather performance which often gets lost in the averages.
- cogman10 8mo ago
  Generally just not an issue. The biggest problem with deserts is battery degradation and not so much range problems.
  - kortilla 8mo ago
    Air conditioning from 110F to 75F really drags down the range.
    - instagib 8mo ago
      Had a thermometer read 170F 76C inside my black on black vehicle with windows cracked. Decided to keep my battery devices in a cooler with cool and frozen water bottles to drink when I return. Phone, camera batteries, and a portable vehicle starter.
ezfe 8mo ago
I don't understand what these headlines are really about, given that 75% of the range loss in my EV is from CABIN climate control.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  That seems really out of proportion with the experience of others, you may want to get it checked out. Do you have an older model with resistive heat and no seat heaters?
  - ezfe 8mo ago
    My car has a heat pump. I am basing the numbers off of the range estimates the car provides when I turn off cabin climate. The range is still lower, but I assume another chunk of that is from heating the battery when it's 10°F outside. Rated: 230 miles 10°F with 70°F climate: 160 miles 10°F with no climate: 190-200 miles
- ebiederm 8mo ago
  My EV is absolutely terrible range wise at cold weather. It is EPA rated at 220miles of range. I only see that when the temperature is at or above 80F. Most of the winter it tells me I can only do between 100 and 120 miles. It is definitely half the EPA range with climate controls disabled at 0F. (Ask me how I know). I love driving it in the winter. I don't have a pressing need to go long distances, so that is not a current concern. Not having to stand outside in the bitter cold to fuel up in absolutely awesome. There are EVs on the market that do much, much better than mine in cool weather and I now know what to look for. To really penetrate the midwest it will take a car that can realistically do a road trip to Florida from say Duluth, MN or Michigan's UP in the winter. Because not only do folks in the midwest drive long distances without a second thought, they sometimes do it in the cold of winter so they can get a break from the snow. So yes still getting 90% of the range at -40C does sound attractive.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    > EPA rated at 220miles of range That right there is a big problem to begin with. The headline EPA number only reflects reality if you have a mix of city and highway driving. The problem is that people only care about range when driving 75mph. I think the headline EPA number should reflect that reality.
anthonyIPH 8mo ago
Do any US automakers have anything in the pipes using Sodium-Ion batteries? A quick search turned up info on a plant mass producing the batteries in Holland, MI but no mention of when they would be available. As someone in the market for an EV within the next year or 2, and also currently enduring a month long stretch of temps in the single digits and below, cold weather performance has suddenly become a huge consideration.
- loeg 8mo ago
  Cold weather performance with heat pumps and lithium batteries is fine. Don't worry about it. I wouldn't try to hold my breath until a US automaker produces a sodium battery EV.
  - throwaway894345 8mo ago
    It’s only “fine” if you live in the southern US where freezing conditions are rare and/or never drive anywhere near your winter range and you have a garage charger or some other easy access to a charge station. Anything outside of those conditions and winter range issues are painful.
    - rootusrootus 8mo ago
      And yet, some of the biggest proponents of EVs live in frigid areas of Canada and the US. As it turns out, range loss is not really a huge deal for a lot of people, but being able to get in your car and drive without worrying about whether it will start at all is nice. No plugging in a block heater, no worry about fuel gelling, no warm up time. And you can pre-condition the interior so it is warm when you get in. With a modern EV you could lose 50% range and still have plenty for your daily commute. Even a fairly long commute.
      - gambiting 8mo ago
        Norway regularly sees -30C in winter and EVs account for like 99% of sales there, it made the news that in January only 7 ICE cars were sold in the entire country.
loeg 8mo ago
Nothing in the article really substantiates the headline (currently "The First Sodium-Ion Battery EV IS a Winter Range Monster"). The EV described in the article has a standardized range of 250 miles. This isn't a range monster in any condition. There is some gesturing that Sodium batteries don't require as much active heating in cold conditions. But nothing is quantified. As usual with sci-tech broadly and batteries specifically: it's exciting that sodium batteries are coming to market; we can be optimistic that maybe in the future they will provide lots of range, or be less expensive, or maybe less flammable than today's lithium batteries. But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality.
- throwaway894345 8mo ago
  > But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality. The marketing hype is the true range monster
- cess11 8mo ago
  It makes this claim: "The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km." That would be some 720 km at -40 C if the numbers are correct. I'm not well versed in this area and not sure if these batteries are comparable to those in personal vehicles, but the ones I've heard owners talk about have a reach at about half that if it's cold at all.
  - baq 8mo ago
    Even 620 would be absolutely not an issue, this is the difference I get from my diesel car basically
  - loeg 8mo ago
    > The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km. This text is not present in the article. Are you looking at a different article?
    - 8mo ago
Anduia 8mo ago
Less bloated site: https://carnewschina.com/2026/01/22/catl-unveils-worlds-first-mass-production-sodium-ion-battery-for-commercial-vehicles/ https://carnewschina.com/2026/01/22/catl-unveils-worlds-firs...
smiley1437 8mo ago
Out the gate, sodium ion advantages are so significant that unless there is some surprise show-stopper it will likely become the dominant energy storage medium. Crustal abundance up to 1000x that of lithium - pretty much every nation has effectively unlimited supply, it's no longer a barrier or a geographically limited resource like lithium. No significant damage going down to 0V, can even be stored at 0V - much safer than lithium which gets excitable once out of its prefered voltage range. Cold weather performance down to -30C - northern latitude users don't have as much range anxiety in the winter. Basically, the only problem I see is that companies that have made significant long-term investments in lithium could take a big hit. Countries that banked on their lithium reserves as a key future resource for will have to adjust their strategy. Lithium batteries will likely still have a place in the high performance realm but but for the majority of run-of-the-mill applications - everything from customer electronics to EVs to offgrid storage - it's hard to see how sodium-ion wouldn't quickly replace it.
- gpm 8mo ago
  Energy density matters a lot for many applications, including customer electroncs and EVs. Sodium ion is at a fundamental disadvantage (sodium is heavier than lithium). I don't doubt that sodium ion has a place... but whether it takes over as the dominant battery type for portable applications strikes me as very dependent on the future of lithium extraction. It seems like a place that has a lot of room to grow more efficient and thus more competitive on cost.
- djoldman 8mo ago
  It seems the remaining disadvantage is energy density. If they can figure that out, it should win?
  - adrian_b 8mo ago
    It is impossible for sodium-ion batteries to reach the same energy density as the best lithium-ion batteries. So lithium-ion batteries will never be replaced in smartphones or laptops by sodium-ion batteries. But there are plenty of applications where the energy density of sodium-ion batteries is sufficient. Eventually sodium-ion batteries will be much cheaper and this is why they will replace lithium-ion batteries in all cheap cars and for most stationary energy storage (except when lower auto-discharge is desired).
dyauspitr 8mo ago
This with 500-600 miles range means the end of ICE. 250 is still too little since that will realistically be closer to 150-160 if you’re consistently driving 74-80 mph.
- decimalenough 8mo ago
  Unfortunately sodium ion is less dense than lithium ion, so range is lower too. Since it's also cheaper, it's likely that Na-ion will be adopted by cheaper city runabout type EVs, while premium long range EVs will continue using Li-ion.
  - cameldrv 8mo ago
    I saw a CATL presentation where they were hyping a hybrid lithium-sodium pack. Their version of sodium ion could charge/discharge faster than LFP, and handle lower temperatures. The hybrid then gives you a nice combination of features. You get better density/range from LFP, but if you have to start in the cold, the sodium-ion can get you going, and then with active cooling you can heat the LFP using the waste heat from the sodium ion for the rest of the trip. Since the sodium ion charges faster, you can charge part of the overall pack really fast, so you can make a quick trip to the charger and add ~50%. If you live in a cold climate area it seems like a very good combination.
  - wpm 8mo ago
    If it can charge as fast as filling up a tank, who cares? There are already large battery swapping schemes in China with thousands of stations. Even if we don't get to 5-100 charging at 5C+ there's nothing stopping this from not being a problem. If the arrow of time is to be believed, many of the complaints and gripes and "well aktuallys" from 10 years ago are solved already. And there seems to be no slowing down.
    - decimalenough 8mo ago
      That assumes there are chargers and that they're available. Not a problem in big cities, but it will complicate road trips, and "range anxiety" remains a real concern for first time EV buyers. Battery swapping is talked about a lot but AFAICT it hasn't really been successful anywhere. It just seems like a lot more hassle than plugging in, and with charging speeds constantly increasing the payoff is shrinking too.
nharada 8mo ago
This is awesome and I'm really happy to see this progress. Landing a new chemistry in a production car THIS YEAR is some crazy velocity, especially compared to where other Na-Ion batteries are in the development cycle elsewhere. Is anyone else even close to having a car on the road with their cells? The reason this is so exciting for me personally is for stationary energy. Because the raw materials are so abundant and have good cold weather performance, both grid and home level energy storage costs should come down significantly as this is commercialized further.
clawlrbot 8mo ago
[flagged]
dtgriscom 8mo ago
Question: if a LiIon battery can't deliver as much energy when cold, where does the lost energy go? Is it just unavailable, and becomes available again when warmed up? Is discharge less efficient, so the energy is wasted? Or does charging stop early when cold, so there's less to be discharged in the first place?
- coryrc 8mo ago
  > Is discharge less efficient, so the energy is wasted? Yes. It's mostly wasted as heat inside the battery. I think there's also a temperature relationship to open-circuit voltage? But the predominate effect is from elevated internal resistance.
  - cogman10 8mo ago
    I believe you are correct. Temp causes the voltage to drop faster. It does raise as the battery heats up.
- stavros 8mo ago
  This is an educated guess, but I think it becomes less efficient, so it heats up, and then performs better as it heats. I assume this to be the case because I charge my RC plane LiPos the same way every time, and they take the same amount of energy, but flying in the winter gives much shorter flight times. Since the battery is warm after a flight, even in the cold, I don't think the energy is still there the battery is still discharged when I take it home), so it must just be much less efficient and wasting a lot of energy as heat. I assume it's just that its internal resistance rises when it's cold, but I might be wrong.
- goalieca 8mo ago
  Batteries can freeze solid. It takes energy to keep them warm with an heater. Then there’s cabin heating which is usually warmed by heat from combustion in a gas engine.
- pfilehats 8mo ago
  Easiest way to model this is from the cells impedance. Essentially think of the cold limiting ion motility in the electrolyte phase, and that resulting in a higher impedance, that works out as a voltage drop at the cells terminals, so the cell has a limited depth of discharge, vs at higher temperatures. You can read about EIS here: https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/basics-of-electrochemical-impedance-spectroscopy/ https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/basics-of-electr...
bilsbie 8mo ago
Dumb question but I’ve always wondered if we could make a giant reusable “hand warmer” type chemistry around the battery and use that to get it going in cold environments. Looking into it more. Maybe something like supersaturated solution of sodium acetate (plus water) in a sealed pouch with a metal disc. Bending the disc triggers crystallization, releasing stored heat (around 130–140°F for 20–60 minutes). Boil them to reset. So you could boil and reset them during charging and click them off if needed in cold weather.
- 0_____0 8mo ago
  One way I've seen of doing this is to include a PTC heater. It's a heating element that you feed DC. It has a positive coefficient of resistivity vs. temperature, so it'll asymptotically approach a temperature defined by the structure of the material. No PID controller required, it's just a sheet of material you include in the battery structure. Granted, you have a minor bootstrapping issue wherein you need the battery to be warm before you use battery power, but at very low % of the battery's power capacity I suspect it's less of an issue.
- gpm 8mo ago
  I don't think it's a dumb question at all. Storing thermal energy separately from electrical energy would make plenty of sense if we could store the thermal energy better (cheaper, lighter) than the electrical energy. A quick search suggests that sodium acetate used like this stores 230kj/kg (i.e. 64 Wh/kg in the units used for batteries) [1] which is significantly worse than the sodium ion batteries being discussed. Same order of magnitude though, so maybe there's a better material that would make it work. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359431115008510 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13594...
cyanydeez 8mo ago
Two things EVs need to be everywhere for me. Range and STOP MAKING UGLY SUVs.
- wpm 8mo ago
  I'd also go for "less computer". Just because it's an EV doesn't mean I don't want what is basically a bog standard Corolla. Physical switches. Not 5 massive touchscreens that all suck. Cloth seats. No mega futuristic design. Just a damn car.
  - IneffablePigeon 8mo ago
    Because batteries are still expensive, this is a tough sell for most of the market. You would be removing lots of things that most buyers associate with more luxury cars, but not actually saving much of the cost and therefore not reducing the price that much. I think (hope) this niche will start to make a comeback as the underlying tech continues to get cheaper. You are starting to see glimmers of it in the low low end with some micromobility cars in Europe just providing phone holders instead of screens.
    - cyanydeez 8mo ago
      Not true in China. The luxury angle is pure american consumer. Theres some EV owner costs because of infrastructure, but the base cost is not as luxury. Its luxury because americans refused to see value.
Animats 8mo ago
Remember those Donut/Verge solid state batteries, which were supposed to ship in Q1 2026? That just slipped to the end of 2026 or 2027.[1] Supposedly they're delayed by needing "certification" for their motorcycle. (The motorcycle is real, and has been out for years. This is just a battery upgrade.) [1] https://insideevs.com/news/786388/verge-motorcycles-donut-labs-solid-state-battery-ev/ https://insideevs.com/news/786388/verge-motorcycles-donut-la...
- saelthavron 8mo ago
  Apparently the article was updated to clarify the "delay" date was referring to the delivery dates of new/future orders and not referring to any delays for the very first orders.
- gpm 8mo ago
  Is there some particular relevance to this article? There's a lot of reasons to think that that battery might be a scam... unlike most batteries, including sodium ion ones... If it's not a scam it will certainly upset the battery market eventually.
  - Animats 8mo ago
    It's another battery that you can't buy right now. "Chinese battery giant CATL and automaker Changan Automobile are preparing to put the world’s first passenger car powered by sodium-ion batteries on public roads by mid-2026." CATL is more credible than Donut, but both are making forward-looking statements.
    - gpm 8mo ago
      Not all forwarding look statements are the same... CATL is "we're going to mass produce this specific well known technology" and while there's some question as to precise numbers for their implementation of it they aren't claiming anything surprising. A worst they're somewhat over optimistic and fail to be a commercial success. At best they're slightly under optimistic and are slightly more successful than anticipated. We can be confident they aren't flat out lying (though they may be exaggerating) because the claim is so mundane. Donut is "we're going to produce a technology capable of achieving targets that haven't even been demonstrated in a (public) lab. We won't tell you what specific technology. We're going to put this miracle battery in motorcycles, because we can". At worst they're flat out lying to scam investors - but if they're not lying, even if they're over optimistic, they've made a significant advance in the state of the art that will eventually (once it's not just put in motorcycles) have widespread repercussions.
ipython 8mo ago
More interesting is that they're claiming 248 miles (400km) on a 45kWh battery[0]. That calculates out to 5.5 miles/kWh, whereas the most efficient Tesla 3 right now only claims 4.5 miles/kWh - and even that is a very optimistic estimate (most people can't get 270 miles out of their 60kWh Tesla 3 standard range models) [1] [0] https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/worlds-first-mass-produced-sodium-ion-passenger-vehicle-.png https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/worlds-first-mass-produ... [1] https://insideevs.com/news/719013/2024-tesla-model3-epa-range-consumption/ https://insideevs.com/news/719013/2024-tesla-model3-epa-rang...
- margalabargala 8mo ago
  The old Nissan Leafs that look like bugs can easily get 5+ miles per kWh in warm weather with careful driving. Car shape does a lot here.
- Rebelgecko 8mo ago
  The Chinese EV test cycle typically gives like 30-50% more than than the EPA's
- NetMageSCW 8mo ago
  In China the Tesla Model 3 gets 634km/394miles out of 62.5kWh battery on CLTC, which is 6.3 miles/kWh.
  - ipython 8mo ago
    Wow - that’s an insanely useless test then. Because I own a 60kwh Tesla 3 and it can hardly travel 250 miles on a 100% charge in any reasonable scenario.
minneapoliced 8mo ago
[flagged]
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  EV fetishist? Is this some kind of reverse psychology thing, like accusing everyone else of having TDS? Does that even work on someone who isn't already afflicted?

174 points by andrewjneumann 8mo ago

If this is “on par” with LFP energy density, I’m not sure there’s any need for LFP now. Sodium ion seems to thoroughly beat it in every other metric.

woeirua 8mo ago
I haven’t seen any info on charging speed. Can you recharge these as quickly as LFP?
- jillesvangurp 8mo ago
  CATL's Naxtra cells apparently have a c rating of 5C. Which boils down to about 12 minutes for a full charge with the right charger. So, as fast or faster than LFP would be the answer here.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    If they have a 5C rating from 0 to 100 that would be a real game changer. I look forward to the days we don't need caveats like "only up to 80%".
    - jillesvangurp 8mo ago
      100% is a soft limit in many batteries. The battery management system actually prevents you from charging too much. Pushing it too far can damage the battery so they don't let you completely charge it. A lot of EV drivers optimize to minimize waiting time. Mostly you try to charge while you are doing something else (sleeping, working, eating, shopping, etc.). So, you are not actually waiting for it and sitting in the car bored. Charging speeds are non linear. The last few percent take a bit more waiting. But you don't actually have to charge the battery to 100% all the time. Two 10-80% charge breaks might be a lot less less time than one 10-100% charge break and it will get you a lot more miles. When you are driving long distance, you can plan to top up while having breaks, lunch, etc. Just top it back up to whatever the time allows. You don't have to drive the battery to empty either. And destination charging is a thing as well. You can trade off not having to stop for a bit more against the charging time. Charging to 100% at night is a good use of time. Because you are probably sleeping/resting. Interrupting your journey to do the same is probably not a great use of your time. Two 10-80% charge breaks might be a lot less less time than one 10-100% charge break and it will get you a lot more miles. Of course on longer journeys, planning for 45 minute charging breaks is a lot more annoying than planning for 15 minute charging breaks. Which is what 5C charging should enable given the right cell and charger combination. With a normal EV (medium sized battery) that's once every 3-4 hours roughly. A bit longer if your car is more economical with the battery. That's actually not a horrible frequency for taking a short break. Even if you drive a petrol car. And if you are really anxious about that, get an EV with a bigger battery. 300 miles. 400 miles. There are even some 500 mile batteries in some cars now. It will cost you of course. Financially it's probably not a great choice for most people.
      - NetMageSCW 8mo ago
        Most people posting about 80% seem to talking about charging at home. If you are charging overnight, why are you restricting charge level if it doesn’t really matter to longevity? Is it just left over advice that no longer applies?
loeg 8mo ago
On par on a per kg basis, but is it on par on a volume basis? If it takes up more space, that might pose packaging challenges relative to LFP.
- adrian_b 8mo ago
  Sodium has greater density than lithium, while most other materials used in a battery have similar densities regardless if sodium or lithium is used, so if a Na-ion battery and a LFP battery have about the same mass and stored energy, it is likely that the sodium-ion battery has a smaller volume.
  - PunchyHamster 8mo ago
    that doesn't check out, capacity depends on surface area, if the element that is on the surface is heavier then, all other things equal, the battery will be heavier for same kWh. Sodium would need to be more efficient to be lighter, which it isn't
    - adrian_b 8mo ago
      The maximum deliverable power depends on electrode area, through the maximum current density. The capacity of storing energy does not depend at all on area, but only on the mass of sodium contained in the battery and on the efficiency of using it (i.e. between full discharge and full charge not 100% of the sodium or lithium is cycled between the 2 oxidation states, but a fraction, e.g. 90%). Any battery has both an energy density and a power density, which are weakly correlated and the correlation may have opposite signs, i.e. for some batteries it may be possible to increase the power density if the energy density is lowered and vice-versa. For a given stored energy in kWh, the required mass of sodium is several times greater than the corresponding mass of lithium, by a factor that is the product of the atomic mass ratio with the ratio between the battery voltages. The voltages are similar, with a slight advantage for sodium, so the required mass of sodium is about 3 times the corresponding mass of lithium. If the complete batteries have about the same mass, that means that other components of the sodium-ion battery are smaller and/or lighter.
- 8mo ago
adrian_b 8mo ago
I have no idea about the characteristics of these new sodium-ion batteries, but there is a great likelihood that they auto-discharge much faster than LFP batteries. This means that if you do not use the car for some time, you may need to recharge it before you can use it again. This may be a problem if the car is left far from a charger. Otherwise I agree with what you said.
- NetMageSCW 8mo ago
  citation needed

lightedman 8mo ago

I suspect we will be finding this technology being used a fair bit in aerospace tech like satellites to compliment the onboard solar, given the low-temp operational capability.

gpm 8mo ago
Do satellite batteries run cold? Given the difficulty of radiating heat away I would have expected the opposite. Especially considering the incentive to send up as little battery as possible, and the very predictable day/night cycle leading to the ability to precisely predict how small a battery you can get away with...
- rcxdude 8mo ago
  Generally it's hard to control: it'll be hot sometimes and cold other times, so a wide operating time is useful.

letharion 8mo ago

What I wanted to know from the article: The CATL Naxtra sodium-ion battery will debut in the Changan Nevo A06 sedan, delivering an estimated range of around 400 kilometers (249 miles) on the China Light-Duty Test Cycle. and It delivers 175 watt-hours per kilogram of energy density, which is lower than nickel-rich chemistries but roughly on par with LFP

johanvts 8mo ago
Thanks, I wanted to know about price. Isn't that the main benefit of sodium-ion. On par energy density with LFP, but a lot cheaper.
- PunchyHamster 8mo ago
  *potentially a lot cheaper. I've seen that repeated a lot but I still can't buy sodium batteries cheaper than lifepo...
  - wirybeige 8mo ago
    Sodium batteries don't yet have the scale that lifepo4 batteries have. I'd expect we will see them get cheaper.
- jbm 8mo ago
  I thought the price differential was not going to happen as there was a serious drop in the price of Lithium over the past year; but I looked it up and the lithium price drop is more a 5 year trend, with the last few months having a sudden surge in the price. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium
  - hunterpayne 8mo ago
    Increased production of Lithium is why. However, that only drains the (very limited) reserves of Lithium more quickly. Currently we have about 75 years left of it at previous extraction rates. More could be found, that is unlikely.

Flavius 8mo ago

Retaining 90% range at -40°C sounds like a game changer, almost too good to be true. I'm definitely going to need to see some third-party real-world range tests to validate those claims before getting too excited.

tedd4u 8mo ago
And human occupants will still run the heater more in winter. But it sounds like there could be a future where makers offer a sodium battery and heat pump version of their cars for sale in colder climates.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > future where makers offer a sodium battery and heat pump version AFAIK most EVs already use heat pumps today, so the future happens whenever sodium batteries become mainstream.
  - cosmic_cheese 8mo ago
    IIRC there are some surprising holdouts, at least in the NA market. For example as far as I'm aware the Mustang Mach-E still ships with a resistive heater.
    - rootusrootus 8mo ago
      > Mustang Mach-E still ships with a resistive heater Nope, the Mach E and Lightning both have a heat pump (well, just the Mach E now, I suppose, since the Lightning is out of production).
      - tzs 8mo ago
        It should be noted that started with the 2025 model. Earlier Mach-Es just had resistance heating.
  - formerly_proven 8mo ago

instagib 8mo ago

“As always, we’ll have to wait for independent testing for real-world results.” interested in hot desert weather performance which often gets lost in the averages.

cogman10 8mo ago
Generally just not an issue. The biggest problem with deserts is battery degradation and not so much range problems.
- kortilla 8mo ago
  Air conditioning from 110F to 75F really drags down the range.
  - instagib 8mo ago
    Had a thermometer read 170F 76C inside my black on black vehicle with windows cracked. Decided to keep my battery devices in a cooler with cool and frozen water bottles to drink when I return. Phone, camera batteries, and a portable vehicle starter.

ezfe 8mo ago

I don't understand what these headlines are really about, given that 75% of the range loss in my EV is from CABIN climate control.

rootusrootus 8mo ago
That seems really out of proportion with the experience of others, you may want to get it checked out. Do you have an older model with resistive heat and no seat heaters?
- ezfe 8mo ago
  My car has a heat pump. I am basing the numbers off of the range estimates the car provides when I turn off cabin climate. The range is still lower, but I assume another chunk of that is from heating the battery when it's 10°F outside. Rated: 230 miles 10°F with 70°F climate: 160 miles 10°F with no climate: 190-200 miles
ebiederm 8mo ago
My EV is absolutely terrible range wise at cold weather. It is EPA rated at 220miles of range. I only see that when the temperature is at or above 80F. Most of the winter it tells me I can only do between 100 and 120 miles. It is definitely half the EPA range with climate controls disabled at 0F. (Ask me how I know). I love driving it in the winter. I don't have a pressing need to go long distances, so that is not a current concern. Not having to stand outside in the bitter cold to fuel up in absolutely awesome. There are EVs on the market that do much, much better than mine in cool weather and I now know what to look for. To really penetrate the midwest it will take a car that can realistically do a road trip to Florida from say Duluth, MN or Michigan's UP in the winter. Because not only do folks in the midwest drive long distances without a second thought, they sometimes do it in the cold of winter so they can get a break from the snow. So yes still getting 90% of the range at -40C does sound attractive.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > EPA rated at 220miles of range That right there is a big problem to begin with. The headline EPA number only reflects reality if you have a mix of city and highway driving. The problem is that people only care about range when driving 75mph. I think the headline EPA number should reflect that reality.

anthonyIPH 8mo ago

Do any US automakers have anything in the pipes using Sodium-Ion batteries? A quick search turned up info on a plant mass producing the batteries in Holland, MI but no mention of when they would be available. As someone in the market for an EV within the next year or 2, and also currently enduring a month long stretch of temps in the single digits and below, cold weather performance has suddenly become a huge consideration.

loeg 8mo ago
Cold weather performance with heat pumps and lithium batteries is fine. Don't worry about it. I wouldn't try to hold my breath until a US automaker produces a sodium battery EV.
- throwaway894345 8mo ago
  It’s only “fine” if you live in the southern US where freezing conditions are rare and/or never drive anywhere near your winter range and you have a garage charger or some other easy access to a charge station. Anything outside of those conditions and winter range issues are painful.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    And yet, some of the biggest proponents of EVs live in frigid areas of Canada and the US. As it turns out, range loss is not really a huge deal for a lot of people, but being able to get in your car and drive without worrying about whether it will start at all is nice. No plugging in a block heater, no worry about fuel gelling, no warm up time. And you can pre-condition the interior so it is warm when you get in. With a modern EV you could lose 50% range and still have plenty for your daily commute. Even a fairly long commute.
    - gambiting 8mo ago
      Norway regularly sees -30C in winter and EVs account for like 99% of sales there, it made the news that in January only 7 ICE cars were sold in the entire country.

loeg 8mo ago

Nothing in the article really substantiates the headline (currently "The First Sodium-Ion Battery EV IS a Winter Range Monster"). The EV described in the article has a standardized range of 250 miles. This isn't a range monster in any condition. There is some gesturing that Sodium batteries don't require as much active heating in cold conditions. But nothing is quantified. As usual with sci-tech broadly and batteries specifically: it's exciting that sodium batteries are coming to market; we can be optimistic that maybe in the future they will provide lots of range, or be less expensive, or maybe less flammable than today's lithium batteries. But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality.

throwaway894345 8mo ago
> But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality. The marketing hype is the true range monster
cess11 8mo ago
It makes this claim: "The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km." That would be some 720 km at -40 C if the numbers are correct. I'm not well versed in this area and not sure if these batteries are comparable to those in personal vehicles, but the ones I've heard owners talk about have a reach at about half that if it's cold at all.
- baq 8mo ago
  Even 620 would be absolutely not an issue, this is the difference I get from my diesel car basically
- loeg 8mo ago
  > The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km. This text is not present in the article. Are you looking at a different article?
  - 8mo ago

Anduia 8mo ago

Less bloated site: https://carnewschina.com/2026/01/22/catl-unveils-worlds-first-mass-production-sodium-ion-battery-for-commercial-vehicles/ https://carnewschina.com/2026/01/22/catl-unveils-worlds-firs...

smiley1437 8mo ago

Out the gate, sodium ion advantages are so significant that unless there is some surprise show-stopper it will likely become the dominant energy storage medium. Crustal abundance up to 1000x that of lithium - pretty much every nation has effectively unlimited supply, it's no longer a barrier or a geographically limited resource like lithium. No significant damage going down to 0V, can even be stored at 0V - much safer than lithium which gets excitable once out of its prefered voltage range. Cold weather performance down to -30C - northern latitude users don't have as much range anxiety in the winter. Basically, the only problem I see is that companies that have made significant long-term investments in lithium could take a big hit. Countries that banked on their lithium reserves as a key future resource for will have to adjust their strategy. Lithium batteries will likely still have a place in the high performance realm but but for the majority of run-of-the-mill applications - everything from customer electronics to EVs to offgrid storage - it's hard to see how sodium-ion wouldn't quickly replace it.

gpm 8mo ago
Energy density matters a lot for many applications, including customer electroncs and EVs. Sodium ion is at a fundamental disadvantage (sodium is heavier than lithium). I don't doubt that sodium ion has a place... but whether it takes over as the dominant battery type for portable applications strikes me as very dependent on the future of lithium extraction. It seems like a place that has a lot of room to grow more efficient and thus more competitive on cost.
djoldman 8mo ago
It seems the remaining disadvantage is energy density. If they can figure that out, it should win?
- adrian_b 8mo ago
  It is impossible for sodium-ion batteries to reach the same energy density as the best lithium-ion batteries. So lithium-ion batteries will never be replaced in smartphones or laptops by sodium-ion batteries. But there are plenty of applications where the energy density of sodium-ion batteries is sufficient. Eventually sodium-ion batteries will be much cheaper and this is why they will replace lithium-ion batteries in all cheap cars and for most stationary energy storage (except when lower auto-discharge is desired).

dyauspitr 8mo ago

This with 500-600 miles range means the end of ICE. 250 is still too little since that will realistically be closer to 150-160 if you’re consistently driving 74-80 mph.

decimalenough 8mo ago
Unfortunately sodium ion is less dense than lithium ion, so range is lower too. Since it's also cheaper, it's likely that Na-ion will be adopted by cheaper city runabout type EVs, while premium long range EVs will continue using Li-ion.
- cameldrv 8mo ago
  I saw a CATL presentation where they were hyping a hybrid lithium-sodium pack. Their version of sodium ion could charge/discharge faster than LFP, and handle lower temperatures. The hybrid then gives you a nice combination of features. You get better density/range from LFP, but if you have to start in the cold, the sodium-ion can get you going, and then with active cooling you can heat the LFP using the waste heat from the sodium ion for the rest of the trip. Since the sodium ion charges faster, you can charge part of the overall pack really fast, so you can make a quick trip to the charger and add ~50%. If you live in a cold climate area it seems like a very good combination.
- wpm 8mo ago
  If it can charge as fast as filling up a tank, who cares? There are already large battery swapping schemes in China with thousands of stations. Even if we don't get to 5-100 charging at 5C+ there's nothing stopping this from not being a problem. If the arrow of time is to be believed, many of the complaints and gripes and "well aktuallys" from 10 years ago are solved already. And there seems to be no slowing down.
  - decimalenough 8mo ago
    That assumes there are chargers and that they're available. Not a problem in big cities, but it will complicate road trips, and "range anxiety" remains a real concern for first time EV buyers. Battery swapping is talked about a lot but AFAICT it hasn't really been successful anywhere. It just seems like a lot more hassle than plugging in, and with charging speeds constantly increasing the payoff is shrinking too.

nharada 8mo ago

This is awesome and I'm really happy to see this progress. Landing a new chemistry in a production car THIS YEAR is some crazy velocity, especially compared to where other Na-Ion batteries are in the development cycle elsewhere. Is anyone else even close to having a car on the road with their cells? The reason this is so exciting for me personally is for stationary energy. Because the raw materials are so abundant and have good cold weather performance, both grid and home level energy storage costs should come down significantly as this is commercialized further.

clawlrbot 8mo ago

[flagged]

dtgriscom 8mo ago

Question: if a LiIon battery can't deliver as much energy when cold, where does the lost energy go? Is it just unavailable, and becomes available again when warmed up? Is discharge less efficient, so the energy is wasted? Or does charging stop early when cold, so there's less to be discharged in the first place?

coryrc 8mo ago
> Is discharge less efficient, so the energy is wasted? Yes. It's mostly wasted as heat inside the battery. I think there's also a temperature relationship to open-circuit voltage? But the predominate effect is from elevated internal resistance.
- cogman10 8mo ago
  I believe you are correct. Temp causes the voltage to drop faster. It does raise as the battery heats up.
stavros 8mo ago
This is an educated guess, but I think it becomes less efficient, so it heats up, and then performs better as it heats. I assume this to be the case because I charge my RC plane LiPos the same way every time, and they take the same amount of energy, but flying in the winter gives much shorter flight times. Since the battery is warm after a flight, even in the cold, I don't think the energy is still there the battery is still discharged when I take it home), so it must just be much less efficient and wasting a lot of energy as heat. I assume it's just that its internal resistance rises when it's cold, but I might be wrong.
goalieca 8mo ago
Batteries can freeze solid. It takes energy to keep them warm with an heater. Then there’s cabin heating which is usually warmed by heat from combustion in a gas engine.
pfilehats 8mo ago
Easiest way to model this is from the cells impedance. Essentially think of the cold limiting ion motility in the electrolyte phase, and that resulting in a higher impedance, that works out as a voltage drop at the cells terminals, so the cell has a limited depth of discharge, vs at higher temperatures. You can read about EIS here: https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/basics-of-electrochemical-impedance-spectroscopy/ https://www.gamry.com/application-notes/EIS/basics-of-electr...

bilsbie 8mo ago

Dumb question but I’ve always wondered if we could make a giant reusable “hand warmer” type chemistry around the battery and use that to get it going in cold environments. Looking into it more. Maybe something like supersaturated solution of sodium acetate (plus water) in a sealed pouch with a metal disc. Bending the disc triggers crystallization, releasing stored heat (around 130–140°F for 20–60 minutes). Boil them to reset. So you could boil and reset them during charging and click them off if needed in cold weather.

0_____0 8mo ago
One way I've seen of doing this is to include a PTC heater. It's a heating element that you feed DC. It has a positive coefficient of resistivity vs. temperature, so it'll asymptotically approach a temperature defined by the structure of the material. No PID controller required, it's just a sheet of material you include in the battery structure. Granted, you have a minor bootstrapping issue wherein you need the battery to be warm before you use battery power, but at very low % of the battery's power capacity I suspect it's less of an issue.
gpm 8mo ago
I don't think it's a dumb question at all. Storing thermal energy separately from electrical energy would make plenty of sense if we could store the thermal energy better (cheaper, lighter) than the electrical energy. A quick search suggests that sodium acetate used like this stores 230kj/kg (i.e. 64 Wh/kg in the units used for batteries) [1] which is significantly worse than the sodium ion batteries being discussed. Same order of magnitude though, so maybe there's a better material that would make it work. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359431115008510 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13594...

cyanydeez 8mo ago

Two things EVs need to be everywhere for me. Range and STOP MAKING UGLY SUVs.

wpm 8mo ago
I'd also go for "less computer". Just because it's an EV doesn't mean I don't want what is basically a bog standard Corolla. Physical switches. Not 5 massive touchscreens that all suck. Cloth seats. No mega futuristic design. Just a damn car.
- IneffablePigeon 8mo ago
  Because batteries are still expensive, this is a tough sell for most of the market. You would be removing lots of things that most buyers associate with more luxury cars, but not actually saving much of the cost and therefore not reducing the price that much. I think (hope) this niche will start to make a comeback as the underlying tech continues to get cheaper. You are starting to see glimmers of it in the low low end with some micromobility cars in Europe just providing phone holders instead of screens.
  - cyanydeez 8mo ago
    Not true in China. The luxury angle is pure american consumer. Theres some EV owner costs because of infrastructure, but the base cost is not as luxury. Its luxury because americans refused to see value.

Animats 8mo ago

Remember those Donut/Verge solid state batteries, which were supposed to ship in Q1 2026? That just slipped to the end of 2026 or 2027.[1] Supposedly they're delayed by needing "certification" for their motorcycle. (The motorcycle is real, and has been out for years. This is just a battery upgrade.) [1] https://insideevs.com/news/786388/verge-motorcycles-donut-labs-solid-state-battery-ev/ https://insideevs.com/news/786388/verge-motorcycles-donut-la...

saelthavron 8mo ago
Apparently the article was updated to clarify the "delay" date was referring to the delivery dates of new/future orders and not referring to any delays for the very first orders.
gpm 8mo ago
Is there some particular relevance to this article? There's a lot of reasons to think that that battery might be a scam... unlike most batteries, including sodium ion ones... If it's not a scam it will certainly upset the battery market eventually.
- Animats 8mo ago
  It's another battery that you can't buy right now. "Chinese battery giant CATL and automaker Changan Automobile are preparing to put the world’s first passenger car powered by sodium-ion batteries on public roads by mid-2026." CATL is more credible than Donut, but both are making forward-looking statements.
  - gpm 8mo ago
    Not all forwarding look statements are the same... CATL is "we're going to mass produce this specific well known technology" and while there's some question as to precise numbers for their implementation of it they aren't claiming anything surprising. A worst they're somewhat over optimistic and fail to be a commercial success. At best they're slightly under optimistic and are slightly more successful than anticipated. We can be confident they aren't flat out lying (though they may be exaggerating) because the claim is so mundane. Donut is "we're going to produce a technology capable of achieving targets that haven't even been demonstrated in a (public) lab. We won't tell you what specific technology. We're going to put this miracle battery in motorcycles, because we can". At worst they're flat out lying to scam investors - but if they're not lying, even if they're over optimistic, they've made a significant advance in the state of the art that will eventually (once it's not just put in motorcycles) have widespread repercussions.

ipython 8mo ago

More interesting is that they're claiming 248 miles (400km) on a 45kWh battery[0]. That calculates out to 5.5 miles/kWh, whereas the most efficient Tesla 3 right now only claims 4.5 miles/kWh - and even that is a very optimistic estimate (most people can't get 270 miles out of their 60kWh Tesla 3 standard range models) [1] [0] https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/worlds-first-mass-produced-sodium-ion-passenger-vehicle-.png https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/worlds-first-mass-produ... [1] https://insideevs.com/news/719013/2024-tesla-model3-epa-range-consumption/ https://insideevs.com/news/719013/2024-tesla-model3-epa-rang...

margalabargala 8mo ago
The old Nissan Leafs that look like bugs can easily get 5+ miles per kWh in warm weather with careful driving. Car shape does a lot here.
Rebelgecko 8mo ago
The Chinese EV test cycle typically gives like 30-50% more than than the EPA's
NetMageSCW 8mo ago
In China the Tesla Model 3 gets 634km/394miles out of 62.5kWh battery on CLTC, which is 6.3 miles/kWh.
- ipython 8mo ago
  Wow - that’s an insanely useless test then. Because I own a 60kwh Tesla 3 and it can hardly travel 250 miles on a 100% charge in any reasonable scenario.

minneapoliced 8mo ago

[flagged]

rootusrootus 8mo ago
EV fetishist? Is this some kind of reverse psychology thing, like accusing everyone else of having TDS? Does that even work on someone who isn't already afflicted?