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And yet we still have a solar system, empty of life other than Earth, we can expand to. Why try to cross an ocean when everything we could want is across the ri

And yet we still have a solar system, empty of life other than Earth, we can expand to. Why try to cross an ocean when everything we could want is across the river? Two things baffle me: 1. The idea that Terran life is toxic and must not be allowed on other planets in the solar system. 2. The one person who is advancing our space faring abilities by leaps and bounds is routinely vilified and excoriated on HackerNews.

imtringued 9mo ago
I don't really see anyone complain about Jeff Bezos these days?
xixixao 9mo ago
2. I’m a big fan of the guy, except he went completely off the rails on political stuff… It’s hard that both can be true at the same time.
- nephihaha 9mo ago
  There are a lot of ethical issues surrounding Neuralink and how it would be used. It might be good for certain medical stuff but I can see how it can be abused.
  - WalterBright 9mo ago
    > There are a lot of ethical issues surrounding Neuralink and how it would be used Like what? (There are always ethical issues with new medical technology.) > It might be good for certain medical stuff Yes, like giving sight to the blind! What a monster Musk is! P.S. two of my largest medical fears are becoming paralyzed or going blind. Neuralink has promise in making these treatable. I'm all for it!
    - bananaflag 9mo ago
      > Like what? (There are always ethical issues with new medical technology.) Like mind control, thought surveillance, neural torture (the last one would be easiest). I think these are inevitable technologies, I don't blame Neuralink in particular.
      - WalterBright 9mo ago
        Mean people already do these things. Other people are already trying to use AI to decode your brainwaves and thoughts. There's no evidence Neuralink is doing anything unethical.
    - antonvs 9mo ago
      > What a monster Musk is! Glad we’re on the same page. When I was using Zortech C++ in the ‘80s, I never imagined I’d be talking to the author nearly half a century later about his support for a fascist Nazi near-trillionaire. Wtf is wrong with you.
      - WalterBright 9mo ago
        I wouldn't support Musk if he was a fascist nazi. My personal views are libertarian.
        devmor 9mo ago
        I don’t think he is a fascist nazi either. But I do think he is happy to support them as long as they make him feel special, and that’s bad enough. The man is deeply unwell and desperate for approval and accolades. From anyone.
        WalterBright 9mo ago
        I think we can agree that Musk is strongly motivated. He works insanely hard and takes huge personal risks with his fortune. He says why he does it - over and over - to save humanity by spreading it out into space. > desperate for approval and accolades. From anyone. If true, it is rather common behavior, not deeply unwell. Politicians 100% fall into that category. So do movie stars. So does every Olympic athlete. So what.
        devmor 9mo ago
        If he wants to save humanity, he certainly doesn't show it. Most of what he's done in life so far has harmed or taken more lives than the vast majority of individuals in history. His actions in "DOGE" vis-a-vis USAID may put him on the very top of that list, in the long run. > If true, it is rather common behavior. Wanting approval is normal. Most people would not support nazis for approval.
        Fargren 9mo ago
    - nephihaha 9mo ago
      Neuralink has various potentials. One of them is that it becomes obligatory or even mandatory... If you don't get it, you'll be accused of being a luddite. It will probably start as a medical tool and progress to there. The problem is that you are giving away access to your mind, one of the last private spaces. That means your thoughts can be stolen (think AI scraping but worse), or advertising put in your dreams. Perhaps even used to reprogram your mind etc.
      - fragmede 9mo ago
        > One of them is that it becomes obligatory or even mandatory... Given how smartphones have percolated society, I fear you may have a point, but I think that might be the slippery slope fallacy.
        nephihaha 9mo ago
        It's a pattern. Technology doesn't always mean something is better. Sometimes it does, but not always.
krapp 9mo ago
>Why try to cross an ocean when everything we could want is across the river? That "river" is still vast and nothing we want is on the other side. >1. The idea that Terran life is toxic and must not be allowed on other planets in the solar system. It's less the idea that Terran life is toxic and more that we're still hoping to find some forms of primitive life elsewhere in the solar system, and don't want those efforts thwarted by cross-contamination. You decided the rest of the solar system is dead, not the scientific community. >2. The one person who is advancing our space faring abilities by leaps and bounds is routinely vilified and excoriated on HackerNews. If you really can't comprehend the reason why Elon Musk is villified by people then there's no point in trying to explain it to you. Suffice to say that owning a rocket company doesn't absolve a person of their sins to everyone, even on Hacker News.
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  > nothing we want is on the other side Wow. > You decided the rest of the solar system is dead, not the scientific community. The odds are heavily stacked against other life existing, and get worse with every probe. Of course, nobody can prove there is no other life. And it's not very credible that Terran life will out-compete locally evolved life. And the idea that preserving some slime mold on Pluto justifies us constraining ourselves to Earth is just sad. > If you really can't comprehend the reason why Elon Musk is villified by people then there's no point in trying to explain it to you. I once asked another Musk-hater on HN why? All he could come up with is Musk called a diver a pedo-boy. I pointed out that Musk only did that because the diver went on national TV and told Musk to shove his submarine up his backside. If you've got a better reason, I'd love to hear it!
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Ironically, thanks to the recent releases of the Epstein files,now we know that Musk is a pedo–boy.
  - kentm 9mo ago
    Notwithstanding the other myriad of reasons to not like Elon Musk (of which there are many)… You’re equivocating a childish insult with insisting that a person is a pedophile and hiring a private investigator to prove so and then writing scathing emails to reporters because they refuse to repeat claims uncritically. This is an appalling failing of morality on your part. I’m frankly not inclined to dive into why I, previously a big fan of Elon Musk, find him personally repugnant because I expect you to apply the same standards to everything he does. That doesn’t take away from SpaceX, but we shouldn’t overlook his failings just because rockets are cool.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
nephihaha 9mo ago
1) There may well be other biospheres in the solar system. There is some indirect and inconclusive evidence of microbial life on Mars, and even in the Venusian atmosphere. This dates back to results from the Viking and Venera, as well as more recent research. Earth life could be destructive to native life in these places, and vice versa (since they would likely be extremophiles) resulting in invasive species. 2) Musk is putting a lot of money into these things but he is still heavily subsidised by US government money and facilities (a loophole in the Outer Space Treaty allows individuals and corporations to claim other planets but not countries.)
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  > There is some indirect and inconclusive evidence of microbial life on Mars, and even in the Venusian atmosphere. This dates back to results from the Viking and Venera, as well as more recent research. Yes, I've been hearing that forever. Every probe shrinks the envelope on the possibility. > Earth life could be destructive to native life in these places, Better us than slime mold. > and vice versa (since they would likely be extremophiles) resulting in invasive species. Perhaps. If anyone was transporting things back from there, there'd be a long space voyage where any such toxicity to the astronauts would be pretty clear. 2. Musk is not getting subsidies. He does get government contracts, where he exchanges rockets for money. That is not a subsidy, like if I make boxes and sell them to the government I am not getting a subsidy.
  - givinguflac 9mo ago
    2. How do you define loans, tax credits and other subsidies then? You claim it’s this person specifically advancing space faring capabilities- which literally would not be possible without the US government. So please elaborate, as you’re not making sense.
    - WalterBright 9mo ago
      1. A loan is not a subsidy. Loans get paid back with interest. 2. Tax credits - the tax code is full of various credits. Anyone can use those credits. 3. Other subsidies - like what? > which literally would not be possible without the US government The US government buying launches at prices far cheaper than NASA is not a subsidy.
mmooss 9mo ago
> The one person who is advancing our space faring abilities by leaps and bounds The overwhelming amount of the work is done by NASA, ESA, CNSA (China, going to the Moon), and other space agencies. Musk has built orbital rockets. > routinely vilified and excoriated on HackerNews. That's disingenuous and you know it. Why make such claims?
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  > Musk has built orbital rockets. Musk has built lots of cheap orbital rockets. That changes everything. > That's disingenuous and you know it. Why make such claims? See the other responses in this thread.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    It changes the price and speed of satellite internet. Apart from that...?
    - WalterBright 9mo ago
      There were cars before the Model T, but only for the rich. Ford made cars affordable for everyman. That changed everything. There were books before Gutenberg, but only for the rich. His printing press made them cheap enough to print newspapers. That changed everything. Before Bessemer, making steel was extremely expensive and rarely one. With the Bessemer Process, vast quantities of steel could be cheaply made. That changed everything. Google says: "The process revolutionized the industry by reducing costs and increasing production, making steel accessible for major infrastructure projects in the 19th and early 20th centuries."
      - direwolf20 9mo ago
        And now travel to Mars is affordable for everyone! Oh, wait, no it's not.
        WalterBright 9mo ago
direwolf20 9mo ago
1. It is, until proven otherwise 2. Which guy?
int_19h 9mo ago
I remember Musk being much more popular hereabouts and in my IRL circles 10 years ago. That things moved from that to outright vilification is entirely due to how he behaved since then.

imtringued 9mo ago

I don't really see anyone complain about Jeff Bezos these days?

xixixao 9mo ago

2. I’m a big fan of the guy, except he went completely off the rails on political stuff… It’s hard that both can be true at the same time.

nephihaha 9mo ago
There are a lot of ethical issues surrounding Neuralink and how it would be used. It might be good for certain medical stuff but I can see how it can be abused.
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  > There are a lot of ethical issues surrounding Neuralink and how it would be used Like what? (There are always ethical issues with new medical technology.) > It might be good for certain medical stuff Yes, like giving sight to the blind! What a monster Musk is! P.S. two of my largest medical fears are becoming paralyzed or going blind. Neuralink has promise in making these treatable. I'm all for it!
  - bananaflag 9mo ago
    > Like what? (There are always ethical issues with new medical technology.) Like mind control, thought surveillance, neural torture (the last one would be easiest). I think these are inevitable technologies, I don't blame Neuralink in particular.
    - WalterBright 9mo ago
      Mean people already do these things. Other people are already trying to use AI to decode your brainwaves and thoughts. There's no evidence Neuralink is doing anything unethical.
  - antonvs 9mo ago
    > What a monster Musk is! Glad we’re on the same page. When I was using Zortech C++ in the ‘80s, I never imagined I’d be talking to the author nearly half a century later about his support for a fascist Nazi near-trillionaire. Wtf is wrong with you.
    - WalterBright 9mo ago
      I wouldn't support Musk if he was a fascist nazi. My personal views are libertarian.
      - devmor 9mo ago
        I don’t think he is a fascist nazi either. But I do think he is happy to support them as long as they make him feel special, and that’s bad enough. The man is deeply unwell and desperate for approval and accolades. From anyone.
        WalterBright 9mo ago
        I think we can agree that Musk is strongly motivated. He works insanely hard and takes huge personal risks with his fortune. He says why he does it - over and over - to save humanity by spreading it out into space. > desperate for approval and accolades. From anyone. If true, it is rather common behavior, not deeply unwell. Politicians 100% fall into that category. So do movie stars. So does every Olympic athlete. So what.
        devmor 9mo ago
        If he wants to save humanity, he certainly doesn't show it. Most of what he's done in life so far has harmed or taken more lives than the vast majority of individuals in history. His actions in "DOGE" vis-a-vis USAID may put him on the very top of that list, in the long run. > If true, it is rather common behavior. Wanting approval is normal. Most people would not support nazis for approval.
        Fargren 9mo ago
  - nephihaha 9mo ago
    Neuralink has various potentials. One of them is that it becomes obligatory or even mandatory... If you don't get it, you'll be accused of being a luddite. It will probably start as a medical tool and progress to there. The problem is that you are giving away access to your mind, one of the last private spaces. That means your thoughts can be stolen (think AI scraping but worse), or advertising put in your dreams. Perhaps even used to reprogram your mind etc.
    - fragmede 9mo ago
      > One of them is that it becomes obligatory or even mandatory... Given how smartphones have percolated society, I fear you may have a point, but I think that might be the slippery slope fallacy.
      - nephihaha 9mo ago
        It's a pattern. Technology doesn't always mean something is better. Sometimes it does, but not always.

krapp 9mo ago

>Why try to cross an ocean when everything we could want is across the river? That "river" is still vast and nothing we want is on the other side. >1. The idea that Terran life is toxic and must not be allowed on other planets in the solar system. It's less the idea that Terran life is toxic and more that we're still hoping to find some forms of primitive life elsewhere in the solar system, and don't want those efforts thwarted by cross-contamination. You decided the rest of the solar system is dead, not the scientific community. >2. The one person who is advancing our space faring abilities by leaps and bounds is routinely vilified and excoriated on HackerNews. If you really can't comprehend the reason why Elon Musk is villified by people then there's no point in trying to explain it to you. Suffice to say that owning a rocket company doesn't absolve a person of their sins to everyone, even on Hacker News.

WalterBright 9mo ago
> nothing we want is on the other side Wow. > You decided the rest of the solar system is dead, not the scientific community. The odds are heavily stacked against other life existing, and get worse with every probe. Of course, nobody can prove there is no other life. And it's not very credible that Terran life will out-compete locally evolved life. And the idea that preserving some slime mold on Pluto justifies us constraining ourselves to Earth is just sad. > If you really can't comprehend the reason why Elon Musk is villified by people then there's no point in trying to explain it to you. I once asked another Musk-hater on HN why? All he could come up with is Musk called a diver a pedo-boy. I pointed out that Musk only did that because the diver went on national TV and told Musk to shove his submarine up his backside. If you've got a better reason, I'd love to hear it!
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Ironically, thanks to the recent releases of the Epstein files,now we know that Musk is a pedo–boy.
- kentm 9mo ago
  Notwithstanding the other myriad of reasons to not like Elon Musk (of which there are many)… You’re equivocating a childish insult with insisting that a person is a pedophile and hiring a private investigator to prove so and then writing scathing emails to reporters because they refuse to repeat claims uncritically. This is an appalling failing of morality on your part. I’m frankly not inclined to dive into why I, previously a big fan of Elon Musk, find him personally repugnant because I expect you to apply the same standards to everything he does. That doesn’t take away from SpaceX, but we shouldn’t overlook his failings just because rockets are cool.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

nephihaha 9mo ago

1) There may well be other biospheres in the solar system. There is some indirect and inconclusive evidence of microbial life on Mars, and even in the Venusian atmosphere. This dates back to results from the Viking and Venera, as well as more recent research. Earth life could be destructive to native life in these places, and vice versa (since they would likely be extremophiles) resulting in invasive species. 2) Musk is putting a lot of money into these things but he is still heavily subsidised by US government money and facilities (a loophole in the Outer Space Treaty allows individuals and corporations to claim other planets but not countries.)

WalterBright 9mo ago
> There is some indirect and inconclusive evidence of microbial life on Mars, and even in the Venusian atmosphere. This dates back to results from the Viking and Venera, as well as more recent research. Yes, I've been hearing that forever. Every probe shrinks the envelope on the possibility. > Earth life could be destructive to native life in these places, Better us than slime mold. > and vice versa (since they would likely be extremophiles) resulting in invasive species. Perhaps. If anyone was transporting things back from there, there'd be a long space voyage where any such toxicity to the astronauts would be pretty clear. 2. Musk is not getting subsidies. He does get government contracts, where he exchanges rockets for money. That is not a subsidy, like if I make boxes and sell them to the government I am not getting a subsidy.
- givinguflac 9mo ago
  2. How do you define loans, tax credits and other subsidies then? You claim it’s this person specifically advancing space faring capabilities- which literally would not be possible without the US government. So please elaborate, as you’re not making sense.
  - WalterBright 9mo ago
    1. A loan is not a subsidy. Loans get paid back with interest. 2. Tax credits - the tax code is full of various credits. Anyone can use those credits. 3. Other subsidies - like what? > which literally would not be possible without the US government The US government buying launches at prices far cheaper than NASA is not a subsidy.

mmooss 9mo ago

> The one person who is advancing our space faring abilities by leaps and bounds The overwhelming amount of the work is done by NASA, ESA, CNSA (China, going to the Moon), and other space agencies. Musk has built orbital rockets. > routinely vilified and excoriated on HackerNews. That's disingenuous and you know it. Why make such claims?

WalterBright 9mo ago
> Musk has built orbital rockets. Musk has built lots of cheap orbital rockets. That changes everything. > That's disingenuous and you know it. Why make such claims? See the other responses in this thread.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  It changes the price and speed of satellite internet. Apart from that...?
  - WalterBright 9mo ago
    There were cars before the Model T, but only for the rich. Ford made cars affordable for everyman. That changed everything. There were books before Gutenberg, but only for the rich. His printing press made them cheap enough to print newspapers. That changed everything. Before Bessemer, making steel was extremely expensive and rarely one. With the Bessemer Process, vast quantities of steel could be cheaply made. That changed everything. Google says: "The process revolutionized the industry by reducing costs and increasing production, making steel accessible for major infrastructure projects in the 19th and early 20th centuries."
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      And now travel to Mars is affordable for everyone! Oh, wait, no it's not.
      - WalterBright 9mo ago

direwolf20 9mo ago

1. It is, until proven otherwise 2. Which guy?

int_19h 9mo ago

I remember Musk being much more popular hereabouts and in my IRL circles 10 years ago. That things moved from that to outright vilification is entirely due to how he behaved since then.