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Isn't a vehicle that goes from anywhere to anywhere on your own schedule, safely, privately, cleanly, and without billions in subsidies better?
by xnx 9mo ago
Isn't a vehicle that goes from anywhere to anywhere on your own schedule, safely, privately, cleanly, and without billions in subsidies better?
- anigbrowl 9mo agoI don't think individual vehicles can ever achieve the same envirnmental economies of scale as trains. Certainly they're far more convenient (especially for short-haul journeys) but I also think they're somewhat alienating, in that they're engineering humans out of the loop completely which contributes to social atomization.
- xnx 9mo ago> I don't think individual vehicles can ever achieve the same envirnmental economies of scale as trains. I think you'd be surprised. Look at the difference in cost per passenger mile.
- Mawr 9mo agoI'm looking. Comes out unfavorably to cars. Obviously. I guess you're comparing the total cost of trains vs a subset of costs of cars, as is usual. Road use and pollution are free externalities after all.
- kidk 9mo agoBillions of subsidies? Im confused you talking about cars or trains.
- xnx 9mo agoNo major US public transportation system is fully paid for by riders.
- JimmyBuckets 9mo agoThat includes cars on public roads.
- semiquaver 9mo agoYep. https://www.transitwiki.org/TransitWiki/index.php/Farebox_Recovery_Ratio https://www.transitwiki.org/TransitWiki/index.php/Farebox_Re... is a sobering reminder that many cities’ public transportation would cost $20-50 per trip if paid entirely by riders and thus could not exist without subsidy.
- caycep 9mo agoNYC congestion pricing seems to be working quite well though, and probably helps offset MTA costs.
- xnx 9mo agoNYC "congestion" pricing (actually cordon pricing) is a good idea. Would be great to see more road use fees proportional to use (distance, weight^3, etc.).
- cleaning 9mo agoNeither is any private transportation system?
- epsylon 9mo agoPublic transportation is the backbone of a functioning economy. It doesn't need to be fully paid by riders precisely because the rest of society benefits from it multiple times over.
- g947o 9mo agoNot necessarily, and your premise is incorrect.
- appreciatorBus 9mo agoTrains only require subsidies in a world where human & robot cars are subsidized. As soon as a mode of transport actually has to compete in a market for scarce & valuable land to operate on, trains and other forms of transit (publicly or privately owned) win every time.
- kentiko 9mo agoCars don't work in dense places.
- IshKebab 9mo agoSure but most of the world has a density low enough that cars work and trains don't really. I like trains as much as the next nerd, but you're never going to be able to take a train from your house to your local farm shop or whatever. Where trains work they are great. Where they don't, driverless electric cars seem like a great option.
- epsylon 9mo agoMost of the world's population lives in places where trains and public transit works far better than cars. Density doesn't move around, people do.
- kube-system 9mo agoI don’t believe the data supports that claim. https://csh.ac.at/news/over-half-of-global-commutes-are-by-car-says-study/ https://csh.ac.at/news/over-half-of-global-commutes-are-by-c...
- Hikikomori 9mo ago>without billions in subsidies Is there a magic road wand?
- xnx 9mo agoNo, but roads are paid for by road users (i.e. everyone).
- 47282847 9mo agoHuh? Last I looked, roads are paid for by the general public, not (car) road users?
- generalenvelope 9mo agoAFAICT, the majority (60%) of funding for roads doesn't come from direct user charges... Roads are subsidized, free parking (and generally a lot of paid parking) is subsidized, and the sprawl encouraged by car dependence combined with the resulting infrastructure costs has and will continue to bankrupt cities. I don't think we should "just only have trains", but the current US transit landscape is absurdly stupid and inefficient.
- kube-system 9mo agoYeah I think the single biggest red flag that the US absolutely could support more public transit is the fact that many cities successfully had more public transit in the past.
- fragmede 9mo agoWho pays for the war in Iraq?
- Hikikomori 9mo agoSo its subsidized? I thought that was the problem.
- white_dragon88 9mo ago[dead]
- takethebus 9mo ago>cleanly >without subsidies Source? The biggest source of environmental issues from EVs, tire wear from a heavier vehicle, absolutely applies to AVs. VC subsidizing low prices only to hike them later isn't exactly "without subsidy" - we pay for it either way
- sznio 9mo agobetter for the person vs better for the people sure, a private vehicle is better for me, but a train is better for the world