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NDP wants Carney to kill U.S. fighter jet contract in favour of Swedish aircraft
- ungreased0675 8mo agoThey should buy both. Stealth is indispensable when needed, but for most tasks the Canadian Air Force performs the Gripen would be perfect.
- msie 8mo agoIt clearly seems the right thing to do. I guess the devil is in the details?
- nickff 8mo agoCanada announced an intent to purchase F-35 in 2010, at which point their F-18 were old and worn-out. The current government has been delaying a purchase for over 10 years now, and just needs to do something. The F-18 are too old to be useful, and there is still no clarity on what the intended mission is. Canada needs to either buy something now, or just abandon the idea of maintaining a tactical air force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning...
- notepad0x90 8mo agoWho's the adversary? That's the main question. If the US is, then a better choice of fighters won't make much difference. Most likely it's russia, and it's arctic warfare. The smart move, both for canada and EU nations isn't to build up conventional military (although nothing wrong with that, if done in parallel), but to build up a nuclear force. First strike capabilities. ICBMs, ICBM deterrents, submarines and trans-continental bombers. France and the UK have nuclear capability already, it will cost a lot, but it isn't impossible to achieve in less time than it would take to bootstrap military force that can conventionally take on either the US, China or even Russia. The problem is, unlike Iran and North Korea, Europe and Canada don't yet see themselves as vulnerable as they really are. If a madman like current madman decided to attack the US's allies, nukes are not off the table. Matter of fact, not only do the insane people in the US with power crave such levels of carnage, they crave it. And in their minds, taking out a small city in europe or canada will save lives in the long run and is a quick way to achieve victory. There is a reason the current dictator in the US is trying to bring the 'golden dome' and "dominating our hemisphere". I suspect in the long run, these people will really want to invade europe and "purify it" from those "pesky" brown people, after they're done with the US. ICBM capable (and by the numbers too) Europe and Canada is the most peaceful outcome for everyone involved. If denmark had nukes, there wouldn't have been any talk of invading greenland. Currently, the US provides nuclear capability for nato to the most part. but if self-defense against the US and Russia is the priority for europe, preparing for land and aerial attacks makes little sense. A standing continental military for europe, or even a capable military for canada costs a lot of money, the US spends $800B, and China like $300B on military, that's going to hurt! No one has ever even attempted the invasion of a nuclear capable country. If canada had nukes, they hardly need ICBMs, they could probably use trebuchet from across the border and attack seattle and new york state probably (just kidding of course)
- ls612 8mo agoNit: Ukraine invaded and occupied hundreds of square miles of Russian territory in 2024 and Russia is nuclear capable.
- exe34 8mo agoat the time the US policy was that if Russia used a nuke in Ukraine, they would lose pretty much everything outside Russia. nowadays the gremlin from the kremlin can just turn up in the US and marines will lay down the red carpet. so I'm not sure the same thing can be repeated safely.
- notepad0x90 8mo agoUkraine was invaded to begin with because they gave up their nukes in the 90's in exchange for territorial recognition and a promise of non-invasion from russia lol.
- tyleregeto 8mo agoThe Feb 2nd episode of the "The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge" podcast may be of interest to you, its title is "Should Canada Include Nuclear Weapons In Its Defence Strategy?", and offers a perspective on the subject.
- notepad0x90 8mo agoThanks, i'll try to check it out, it sounds interesting.
- gpm 8mo agoThe MP representing the NDP in this matter is also the MP who represents Canada's northernmost territory (Nunavut). They are clear on who the adversary is, like almost all Canadians are, it is the US. No one else is threatening our territory, whether it's threatening Canada all at once, refusing to officially recognize our arctic territory (even while asking for permission to go through it), threatening to attempt to encircle us by taking arctic territory from an ally that we (and the US, oddly) are bound by treaty to defend, or just pretending our prime minister is a governor of a piece of the states. Russia is an afterthought at best. They don't border us particularly directly in the arctic. They don't have a modern navy that poses us an actual threat. Even the strongest part of their army - their land army - isn't able to successfully invade a neighbouring country at this point. We don't even have a land border with them.
- Rantenki 8mo agoCanada shouldn't buy the F35. The Saab is a less capable plane, for sure, but it doesn't leave Canada (and it's defense) dependent on the US at a time when the president is openly floating the idea of "acquiring" Canada.
- 0xy 8mo agoThe very suggestion of Canada being able to defend itself without the United States is a laughable one. It's so patently ridiculous it's hard to tell if you're serious.
- exe34 8mo agothey don't need to win against the US. they just need to be enough of a pain in the cloaca.
- tokioyoyo 8mo agoDefend against whom?
- justin66 8mo agoThe strategic adversary their fighters are likely to encounter, Russia, flies propeller-driven subsonic bombers for the most part. Any modern fighter is adequate to the task. (it's beyond the scope of the current conversation but Canada's more pressing problem is having enough pilots and getting them enough flight hours)
- joriJordan 8mo agoNo way a well coordinated attack on Canada by US occurs without US fragmenting into tribal factions and fighting amongst themselves. If we let it get that far and I am still around, will be gunning for my fellow Americans. Cause at that point, fuck them. Even if I get got after one, will send a message to the rest not all their old neighbors are on their side.
- ChoGGi 8mo agoConsidering the amount of fluids swapped between northern borders, I doubt it'd ever come to anything along those lines.
- tim-tday 8mo agoWhat is ndp and who is Carney?
- gpm 8mo agoCarney is the prime minister of Canada. The NDP is the farther left party in Canada.
- ChoGGi 8mo agoI almost would've said the liberals are the leftist party (supposed to be), but yeah the NDP of the past few years is a little further from the centre then they should be.
- gpm 8mo agoI've always thought of the NDP as being pretty firmly to the left of the liberals - with labour movements, democratic socialism, welfare, etc being pretty much the defining features of what I consider to be the left and core tenets of the NDP. The liberals are obviously left of the conservatives, and a (mildly) left wing party, but not as far left as the NDP. I wonder if you're working from a different definition of left than I am?
- ChoGGi 8mo agoI'm probably thinking more of the ANDP...
- Sharlin 8mo agoLet me guess, you're USian?
- theyknowitsxmas 8mo agoNDP is basically the communist party in Canada, platform is handing out free stuff.
- jbm 8mo agoAs a fan of Area 88 I agree with this completely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_88 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_88
- maxglute 8mo agoLet's be real, it really doesn't matter what jets Canada buys if US wants to annex Canada. For NORAD duties, US can sortie F35s out of Alaska, Canada on paper better off with some Gripens for cheap performative arctic patrols. But F35s cooler than Gripens for airshows, which US provides anyway. Look just buy some F35s and park it in the Eaton Center for the gram.
- nickff 8mo agoCanada's air bases are very far apart, and the Arctic is very remote, so F-35's range advantage makes it particularly well-suited to performing longer patrols (though it's still only a single-engine fighter). Additionally, the F-35's stealth means that an adversary can never be confident of when or how often patrols take place.
- maxglute 8mo agoGripens with external tanks outrange F35 with external tanks flying dirty, and since 4th gen, stealth hardly matters. Spaced based ISR is proliferating, in 10 years F35s will be picked up through SAR from space if not already... well depending on adversary. PRC and US, stealth broadly not meaningful. IMO RU hardly relevant. And to be blunt, RU/PRC is MORE aligned with Canadian position on Northwest Passage sovereignty. Which really only leaves US... i.e. the only actual on paper threat to NWP is US, which makes F35s terminally stupid acquisition for CAN arctic. But broad IMO is Canada simply doesn't need a strong air game because it won't survive vs adversaries operating in the north anyway. Geopolitically, Canada needs F35 to NORDAD dues/ransom more than it needs F35 for tactical/operational needs. Cue CAN buys f35, find them ruinously expensive to operate, and US will end simply "patrolling" Canadian airspace anyways.
- wakawaka28 8mo agoThe Chinese and Russians would both acquire Canada outright if they could. Any alliance with them is fraught with peril. The US is more culturally compatible with Canada than any other country for real. Although, they are too commie up there, I think a lot of that is imposed from the top without regard for popular opinion. The same happens in Europe.
- kalleboo 8mo agoAs a Swede I'm obviously all for this but doesn't the Gripen still use a ton of US-sourced parts they could easily deny? Like the GE engines.
- cromka 8mo agoYou license them, not source from the US.
- kalleboo 8mo agoIt seems like that was true for the Volvo-manufactured engines in the currently operating versions, but the new versions that are being sold now (currently in the news for a deal with Colombia) use a new US-manufactured model.
- cromka 8mo agoOh, didn't know that. It changes s few things indeed.
- Gud 8mo agoYes, this is a problem and SAAB should return to using Volvo engines(which were made under license, but still made in Sweden). Europe should stop sourcing components from the USA, since the US turned into an adversary.
- poiuyt098 8mo agoCanada must integrate with USA and help subsidize advanced tech, not freeload and nickle&dime it's giant landmass defense as it has been for decades. This shitshow's been going on long enough https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43376221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43376221