4 ms·

Sadly, they still got to her Signal on her Desktop – her sources might still be compromised. It's sadly inherent to desktop applications, but I'm sad that a lot

Sadly, they still got to her Signal on her Desktop – her sources might still be compromised. It's sadly inherent to desktop applications, but I'm sad that a lot more people don't know that Signal for Desktop is much, much less secure against adversaries with your laptop.

pbhjpbhj 8mo ago
Did she have Bitlocker or FileVault or other disk encryption that was breeched? (Or they took the system booted as TLAs seek to do?)
- MoonWalk 8mo ago
  breached
  - pbhjpbhj 8mo ago
    Ha, no, shoved down someone's trousers! ;oP
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- bmicraft 8mo ago
  There was a story here the other day, bitlocker keys stored in your Microsoft account will be handed over.
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    Which windows does by default and makes it hard to turn off
  - deltastone 8mo ago
    This has been known for a while, though I don't know if your typical layperson was aware until recently. People need to remember that any access a company has to a device, so does LE with a warrant. Even moreso once you get into federal resources and FISA courts.
- deltastone 8mo ago
  Bitlocker isn't secure, for several reasons, that I won't get into on here.
stronglikedan 8mo ago
If people don't have Signal set to delete sensitive messages quickly, then they may as well just be texting.
- AdamN 8mo ago
  That's a strong statement. Also imho it's important that we use Signal for normal stuff like discussing where to get coffee tomorrow - no need for disappearing messages there.
  - aschobel 8mo ago
    I'm weird, i even have disappearing messages for my coffee chats. It's kind of refreshing not having any history.
    - zikduruqe 8mo ago
      I'm an inbox zero person... I keep even my personal notes to disappear after 2 days. For conversations 1 day.
  - tptacek 8mo ago
    Not if you're using Signal for life-and-death secure messaging; in that scenario it's table stakes.
  - CGMthrowaway 8mo ago
    Strong and accurate. Considering non-disappearing messages the same as texts is not the same thing as saying all Signal messages ought to be disappearing or else the app is useless. Telegram allows you to have distinct disappearing settings for each chat/group. Not sure how it works on Signal, but a solution like this could be possible.
NewsaHackO 8mo ago
Yea, I also would want to question the conclusions in the article. Was the issue that they couldn't unlock the iPhone, or that they had no reason to pursue the thread? To my understanding, the Apple ecosystem means that everything is synced together. If they already got into her laptop, wouldn't all of the iMessages, call history, and iCloud material already be synced there? What would be the gain of going after the phone, other than to make the case slightly more watertight?
- NetMageSCW 8mo ago
  Not if she’s smart.
mrandish 8mo ago
I would have thought reporters with confidential sources at that level would already exercise basic security hygiene. Hopefully, this incident is a wake up call for the rest.
tadzikpk 8mo ago
> I'm sad that a lot more people don't know that Signal for Desktop is much, much less secure against adversaries with your laptop Educate us. What makes it less secure?
- digiown 8mo ago
  The key in the desktop version is not always stored in the secure enclave, is my assumption (it definitely supports plaintext storage). Theoretically this makes it possible to extract the key for the message database. Also a different malicious program can read it. But this is moot anyway if the FBI can browse through the chats. This isn't what failed here.
  - anigbrowl 8mo ago
    Also last time I looked (less than 1 year ago) files sent over Signal are stored in plain, just with obfuscated filenames. So even without access to Signal it's easy to see what message attachments a person has received, and copy any interesting ones.
- armadyl 8mo ago
  In addition to what the other person who replied said, ignoring that iOS/Android/iPadOS is far more secure than macOS, laptops have significantly less hardware-based protections than Pixel/Samsung/Apple mobile devices do. So really the only way a laptop in this situation would be truly secure from LEO is if its fully powered off when it’s seized.
  - tkel 8mo ago
    ARM/M1 macOS took their hardware platform from iOS. TEE, signed/verified/readonly system files, etc. They are similar in security now. [1] https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/ https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/ [2] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/hardware-security-overview-secf020d1074/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/hardware-security-o... [3] https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/04/booting-an-m1-mac-from-hardware-to-kexts-1-hardware/ https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/04/booting-an-m1-mac-from-h...

pbhjpbhj 8mo ago

Did she have Bitlocker or FileVault or other disk encryption that was breeched? (Or they took the system booted as TLAs seek to do?)

MoonWalk 8mo ago
breached
- pbhjpbhj 8mo ago
  Ha, no, shoved down someone's trousers! ;oP
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
bmicraft 8mo ago
There was a story here the other day, bitlocker keys stored in your Microsoft account will be handed over.
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  Which windows does by default and makes it hard to turn off
- deltastone 8mo ago
  This has been known for a while, though I don't know if your typical layperson was aware until recently. People need to remember that any access a company has to a device, so does LE with a warrant. Even moreso once you get into federal resources and FISA courts.
deltastone 8mo ago
Bitlocker isn't secure, for several reasons, that I won't get into on here.

stronglikedan 8mo ago

If people don't have Signal set to delete sensitive messages quickly, then they may as well just be texting.

AdamN 8mo ago
That's a strong statement. Also imho it's important that we use Signal for normal stuff like discussing where to get coffee tomorrow - no need for disappearing messages there.
- aschobel 8mo ago
  I'm weird, i even have disappearing messages for my coffee chats. It's kind of refreshing not having any history.
  - zikduruqe 8mo ago
    I'm an inbox zero person... I keep even my personal notes to disappear after 2 days. For conversations 1 day.
- tptacek 8mo ago
  Not if you're using Signal for life-and-death secure messaging; in that scenario it's table stakes.
- CGMthrowaway 8mo ago
  Strong and accurate. Considering non-disappearing messages the same as texts is not the same thing as saying all Signal messages ought to be disappearing or else the app is useless. Telegram allows you to have distinct disappearing settings for each chat/group. Not sure how it works on Signal, but a solution like this could be possible.

NewsaHackO 8mo ago

Yea, I also would want to question the conclusions in the article. Was the issue that they couldn't unlock the iPhone, or that they had no reason to pursue the thread? To my understanding, the Apple ecosystem means that everything is synced together. If they already got into her laptop, wouldn't all of the iMessages, call history, and iCloud material already be synced there? What would be the gain of going after the phone, other than to make the case slightly more watertight?

NetMageSCW 8mo ago
Not if she’s smart.

mrandish 8mo ago

I would have thought reporters with confidential sources at that level would already exercise basic security hygiene. Hopefully, this incident is a wake up call for the rest.

tadzikpk 8mo ago

> I'm sad that a lot more people don't know that Signal for Desktop is much, much less secure against adversaries with your laptop Educate us. What makes it less secure?

digiown 8mo ago
The key in the desktop version is not always stored in the secure enclave, is my assumption (it definitely supports plaintext storage). Theoretically this makes it possible to extract the key for the message database. Also a different malicious program can read it. But this is moot anyway if the FBI can browse through the chats. This isn't what failed here.
- anigbrowl 8mo ago
  Also last time I looked (less than 1 year ago) files sent over Signal are stored in plain, just with obfuscated filenames. So even without access to Signal it's easy to see what message attachments a person has received, and copy any interesting ones.
armadyl 8mo ago
In addition to what the other person who replied said, ignoring that iOS/Android/iPadOS is far more secure than macOS, laptops have significantly less hardware-based protections than Pixel/Samsung/Apple mobile devices do. So really the only way a laptop in this situation would be truly secure from LEO is if its fully powered off when it’s seized.
- tkel 8mo ago
  ARM/M1 macOS took their hardware platform from iOS. TEE, signed/verified/readonly system files, etc. They are similar in security now. [1] https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/ https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/security/ [2] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/hardware-security-overview-secf020d1074/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/guide/security/hardware-security-o... [3] https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/04/booting-an-m1-mac-from-hardware-to-kexts-1-hardware/ https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/04/booting-an-m1-mac-from-h...