3 ms·

Musk and X don't seem to be the type to care about any laws or any compelling legal requests, especially from a foreign government. I doubt the French will get

by ramuel 8mo ago

Musk and X don't seem to be the type to care about any laws or any compelling legal requests, especially from a foreign government. I doubt the French will get anything other than this headline.

Retric 8mo ago
Getting kicked out of the EU is extremely unattractive for Twitter. But the US also has extradition treaties so that’s hardly the end of how far they can escalate.
- okanat 8mo ago
  I don't think US will extradite anybody to EU. Especially not white people with strong support of the current government.
  - Retric 8mo ago
    White people already extradited to the EU during the current administration would disagree. But this administration has a limited shelf life, even hypothetically just under 3 years of immunity isn’t enough for comfort.
    - wongarsu 8mo ago
      > But this administration has a limited shelf life, even hypothetically just under 3 years of immunity isn’t enough for comfort. Depends on how much faith you have in the current administration. Russia limits presidents to two 6-year terms, yet Putin is in power since 2000.
      - klez 8mo ago
        Believe it or not, he's "just" off by two years. Yes, he is in power since 2000 (1999, actually) but 1999-2012 he was Prime Minister. Only then he became President, which would make the end of his second term 2024. So the current one would be his third term (by the magic of changing the constitution and legal quibbles which effectively allow a president to stay in charge for four almost whole terms, AFAIU).
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    > don't think US will extradite anybody to EU EU, maybe not. France? A nuclear state? Paris is properly sovereign. > people with strong support of the current government Also known as leverage. Let Musk off the hook for a sweetheart trade deal. Trump has a track record of chickening out when others show strength.
    - fmajid 8mo ago
      France doesn't extradite its citizens, even absolute scumbags like Roman Polanski. Someone like Musk has lots of lawyers to gum up extradition proceedings, even if the US were inclined to go along. I doubt the US extradition treaty would cover this unless the French could prove deliberate sharing of CSAM by Musk personally, beyond reckless negligence. Then again, after the Epstein revelations, this is no longer so far-fetched.
    - krisoft 8mo ago
      > France? A nuclear state? Paris is properly sovereign. That is true. But nukes are not magic. Explain to me how you imagine the series of events where Paris uses their nukes to get the USA to extradite Elon to Paris. Because i’m just not seeing it.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - rvnx 8mo ago
        No need for nukes. France can issue an Interpol Red Notice for the arrest of Elon Musk, for whatever excuse is found.
      - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > nukes are not magic. Explain to me how you imagine the series of events where Paris uses their nukes to get the USA to extradite Elon to Paris Paris doesn’t need to back down. And it can independently exert effort in a way other European countries can’t. Musk losing Paris means swearing off a meaningful economic and political bloc.
Teever 8mo ago
The game changed when Trump threatened the use of military force to seize Greenland. At this point a nuclear power like France has no issue with using covert violence to produce compliance from Musk and he must know it. These people have proven themselves to be existential threats to French security and France will do whatever they feel is necessary to neutralize that threat. Musk is free to ignore French rule of law if he wants to risk being involved in an airplane accident that will have rumours and conspiracies swirling around it long after he’s dead and his body is strewn all over the ocean somewhere.
- ronsor 8mo ago
  You're implying that France is going to become a terrorist state? Because suspicious accidents do not sound like rule of law.
  - Teever 8mo ago
    Become? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior The second Donald Trump threatened to invade a nation allied with France is the second anyone who works with Trump became a legitimate military target. Like a cruel child dismembering a spider one limb at a time France and other nations around the world will meticulously destroy whatever resources people like Musk have and the influence it gives him over their countries. If Musk displays a sufficient level of resistance to these actions the French will simply assassinate him.
    - hunterpayne 8mo ago
      You got that backwards. Greenpeace for all its faults is still viewed as a group against which military force is a no-no. Sinking that ship cost France far more than anything they inflicted on Greenpeace. If anything, that event is evidence that going after Musk is a terrible idea. PS Yes, Greenpeace is a bunch of scientifically-illiterate fools who have caused far more damage than they prevented. Doesn't matter because what France did was still clearly against the law.
  - 8mo ago
shawabawa3 8mo ago
If I'm an employee working in the X office in France, and the police come in and show me they have a warrant for all the computers in the building and tell me to unlock the laptop, I'm probably going to do that, no matter what musk thinks
- formerly_proven 8mo ago
  Witnesses can generally not refuse in these situations, that's plain contempt and/or obstruction. Additionally, in France a suspect not revealing their keys is also contempt (UK as well).
  - rvnx 8mo ago
    100%. Only additional troubles for yourself personally, for practically no benefit (nobody in the company is going to celebrate you).

by ramuel 8mo ago

Musk and X don't seem to be the type to care about any laws or any compelling legal requests, especially from a foreign government. I doubt the French will get anything other than this headline.

Retric 8mo ago

Getting kicked out of the EU is extremely unattractive for Twitter. But the US also has extradition treaties so that’s hardly the end of how far they can escalate.

okanat 8mo ago
I don't think US will extradite anybody to EU. Especially not white people with strong support of the current government.
- Retric 8mo ago
  White people already extradited to the EU during the current administration would disagree. But this administration has a limited shelf life, even hypothetically just under 3 years of immunity isn’t enough for comfort.
  - wongarsu 8mo ago
    > But this administration has a limited shelf life, even hypothetically just under 3 years of immunity isn’t enough for comfort. Depends on how much faith you have in the current administration. Russia limits presidents to two 6-year terms, yet Putin is in power since 2000.
    - klez 8mo ago
      Believe it or not, he's "just" off by two years. Yes, he is in power since 2000 (1999, actually) but 1999-2012 he was Prime Minister. Only then he became President, which would make the end of his second term 2024. So the current one would be his third term (by the magic of changing the constitution and legal quibbles which effectively allow a president to stay in charge for four almost whole terms, AFAIU).
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > don't think US will extradite anybody to EU EU, maybe not. France? A nuclear state? Paris is properly sovereign. > people with strong support of the current government Also known as leverage. Let Musk off the hook for a sweetheart trade deal. Trump has a track record of chickening out when others show strength.
  - fmajid 8mo ago
    France doesn't extradite its citizens, even absolute scumbags like Roman Polanski. Someone like Musk has lots of lawyers to gum up extradition proceedings, even if the US were inclined to go along. I doubt the US extradition treaty would cover this unless the French could prove deliberate sharing of CSAM by Musk personally, beyond reckless negligence. Then again, after the Epstein revelations, this is no longer so far-fetched.
  - krisoft 8mo ago
    > France? A nuclear state? Paris is properly sovereign. That is true. But nukes are not magic. Explain to me how you imagine the series of events where Paris uses their nukes to get the USA to extradite Elon to Paris. Because i’m just not seeing it.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - rvnx 8mo ago
      No need for nukes. France can issue an Interpol Red Notice for the arrest of Elon Musk, for whatever excuse is found.
    - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
      > nukes are not magic. Explain to me how you imagine the series of events where Paris uses their nukes to get the USA to extradite Elon to Paris Paris doesn’t need to back down. And it can independently exert effort in a way other European countries can’t. Musk losing Paris means swearing off a meaningful economic and political bloc.

Teever 8mo ago

The game changed when Trump threatened the use of military force to seize Greenland. At this point a nuclear power like France has no issue with using covert violence to produce compliance from Musk and he must know it. These people have proven themselves to be existential threats to French security and France will do whatever they feel is necessary to neutralize that threat. Musk is free to ignore French rule of law if he wants to risk being involved in an airplane accident that will have rumours and conspiracies swirling around it long after he’s dead and his body is strewn all over the ocean somewhere.

ronsor 8mo ago
You're implying that France is going to become a terrorist state? Because suspicious accidents do not sound like rule of law.
- Teever 8mo ago
  Become? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior The second Donald Trump threatened to invade a nation allied with France is the second anyone who works with Trump became a legitimate military target. Like a cruel child dismembering a spider one limb at a time France and other nations around the world will meticulously destroy whatever resources people like Musk have and the influence it gives him over their countries. If Musk displays a sufficient level of resistance to these actions the French will simply assassinate him.
  - hunterpayne 8mo ago
    You got that backwards. Greenpeace for all its faults is still viewed as a group against which military force is a no-no. Sinking that ship cost France far more than anything they inflicted on Greenpeace. If anything, that event is evidence that going after Musk is a terrible idea. PS Yes, Greenpeace is a bunch of scientifically-illiterate fools who have caused far more damage than they prevented. Doesn't matter because what France did was still clearly against the law.
- 8mo ago

shawabawa3 8mo ago

If I'm an employee working in the X office in France, and the police come in and show me they have a warrant for all the computers in the building and tell me to unlock the laptop, I'm probably going to do that, no matter what musk thinks

formerly_proven 8mo ago
Witnesses can generally not refuse in these situations, that's plain contempt and/or obstruction. Additionally, in France a suspect not revealing their keys is also contempt (UK as well).
- rvnx 8mo ago
  100%. Only additional troubles for yourself personally, for practically no benefit (nobody in the company is going to celebrate you).