7 ms·

This is insanely stupid stuff. Even the UK with our weird panic over Incredibly Specific Knives hasn't tried to do this kind of technical restriction to prevent

by pjc50 9mo ago

This is insanely stupid stuff. Even the UK with our weird panic over Incredibly Specific Knives hasn't tried to do this kind of technical restriction to prevent people printing guns. Why not? Because nobody is printing guns! It's an infeasible solution to a non-problem! Someone should dig into who this is coming from and why. The answers are usually either (a) they got paid to do it by a company selling the tech, which appears not to be the case here, or (b) they went insane on social media. (can't confirm this personally, but it seems from other comments that it's perfectly feasible to just drive out of New York State and buy a gun somewhere else in the gun-owning US? And this is quite likely where all the guns used in existing NY crime come from?) I would also note that the Shinzo Abe doohickey wasn't 3D-printed.

tcdent 9mo ago
Is this even a problem that needs to be solved? How many people have 3d printed guns and used them? Preemptive regulation is absurd.
- dghlsakjg 9mo ago
  Quite famously, Luigi Mangione. (allegedly) Of course, this is silliness since it is very easy to just buy a gun in the US, and it is also legal to make one in your garage.
mothballed 9mo ago
The 3d-printed hybrid FGC-9 is readily and commonly made all over Europe[0]. Most notoriously exhibit by 'jstark' in Germany[1]. Ammo is no problem, as can be made with off the shelf components available in EU[2]. And fairly reliable, if not oversized, 9mm pistol, primarily printed except with an ECM machined barrel that is easily DIY'd by 3d printing a mandrel for the rifling electrode and a simple bolt. A really nice gun all things considered for people with no other options, that can be built quickly using simple instructions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGC-9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGC-9 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygxGrxCEOp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygxGrxCEOp0 [2] https://odysee.com/@TheGatalog-Guides_Tutorials:b/BWA-Ammo-V1.0:b https://odysee.com/@TheGatalog-Guides_Tutorials:b/BWA-Ammo-V...
- PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
  I've been saying the same about deepfake noods of hot girls. Something something about distribution.
derekdahmer 9mo ago
Actual shootings with 3D printed guns are relatively rare but it’s come up because Luigi Mangione killed the United Healthcare CEO with one.
- TehCorwiz 9mo ago
  And they're still doing anything except addressing the grievances that lead to that. EDIT: I think you mean "allegedly"
  - BobaFloutist 9mo ago
    Right, because most people recognize that the US has become sufficiently polarized and radicalized that "If enough people are mad at you, a complete stranger might shoot you" is not a theory of change we want to encourage. Yes, even for causes we agree with, most adults in the room understand that "people being mad at you" is pretty independent of how righteous your cause is, and even how civil and thoughtful you are in pursuing it.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - _heimdall 9mo ago
      Are you claiming that the most likely proximal cause for his murder was the legal ability to print a gun rather than any concerns or grievances the shooter may have had related to the healthcare industry or United Healthcare specifically?
      - BobaFloutist 9mo ago
        Yes, I think access to firearms affects the murder rate.
        _heimdall 9mo ago
        That wasn't the topic though. Are you saying the United Health CEO's murder was motivated primarily by access to printing guns on a 3d printer?
talkinghead 9mo ago
i personally wouldn't described teenagers killing each other with luminous green hunting knives as a 'weird panic' but perhaps something that needs a lot of attention and a multitude of steps to solve. banning these insane weapons is, would you believe it, one quick step that might help.
- bluescrn 9mo ago
  Would they really do less stabbing if they had to use a mundane kitchen knife instead of a 'tacticool' knife or 'ninja sword'?
  - silver_silver 9mo ago
    Not necessarily a lot less but I’m sure removing the aesthetic/cool factor reduces how often they’re carried
    - cjbgkagh 9mo ago
      Maybe if the law required all knives to be pink they might be too embarrassed to murder someone. One problem then is the switch to acid attacks which are just clear liquids in containers.
      - beeflet 9mo ago
        You could require that all acids are also dyed pink
      - int_19h 9mo ago
        It reminds me of a certain meme gun along these lines. https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/b4d9gy/unicorn_rifle/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/b4d9gy/unicorn_rifle... (Yes, it is a real gun and it shoots real 9mm bullets.)
- pjc50 9mo ago
  It's just very easily substitutable with regular knives? Plus the Offensive Weapons Act already covers them? I would be very surprised if it has made a difference. (those of us with longer memories remember the previous iteration and why the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles don't have "ninja" in their name in the UK)
milesvp 9mo ago
Could be the way guns are defined in UK are different. There is a fundamental problem in US law specifically, that you can purchase legally nearly any part of a gun separately, but only need to register the lower receiver. These are parts that take very little stress and can be relatively easily printed and used to hold together all the other parts that actually hold the stress of firing the bullet. This is at least true for some specific rifles, where there’s a whole industry around selling unfinished receivers that are relatively easy to mill down with common machining tools to be able to assemble unregistered rifles. My guess, is that these bills are a knee jerk reaction to constituents who’ve seen some tik toks talking about this. Though the conspiracist in me thinks that it’s mostly an excuse for control. This means, this bill is also coming for the UK too…
- Duwensatzaj 9mo ago
  Lower receiver being the serialized part isn’t universal. Many firearms have only a single receiver or only the upper receiver is serialized.
- bluedino 9mo ago
  > These are parts that take very little stress and can be relatively easily printed and used to hold together all the other parts that actually hold the stress of firing the bullet. A lot of the polymer guns (1911, AR15) need to be reinforced with metal at certain places for any kind of reliablity. A Glock doesn't need to be, because the material was invented by the designer of the gun and the gun was intended to be a polymer frame from the start.
pjbk 9mo ago
People print guns and gun parts. More than you think. Now even more since metal printing is starting to become affordable. I print grip and grip attachments for my 9mms and my AR15, trigger guards, barrel clamps, etc. I also find it stupid since, as the article suggests, what kind of algorithm can you implement to do smart detection of something that could be potentially dangerous? Will it also detect negative space? I print inserts in elastic filament with my gun outlines instead of foam (or as foam templates) for my carrying cases. Will the "algorithm" prevent me to do that too? What about my plastic disc thrower toy gun, or my PKD Blaster prop? Both look like guns to me. What about a dumb AI algorithm that lacks common sense? Printing barrels and FCUs -- the fire control unit, which is the only thing tracked and serialized in a gun at least in the US -- is more difficult but not impossible. Actually, building a functional FCU that can strike a bullet primer, or a barrel that can be used once is not difficult at all and if you look around you can find videos of people that have tested that with a mixture of 3d printing and rudimentary metal working skills. The major issues on designing those parts are reliability and safety. In the Philippines there is a full bootleg gunsmith industry dedicated to build illegal guns that match commercial ones in those aspects too. Sadly, instead of having better laws we get fallacy rhetoric by people who probably have never touched, much less fired a gun in their lives.
- hyperbovine 9mo ago
  > Sadly, instead of having better laws we get fallacy rhetoric by people who probably have never touched, much less fired a gun in their lives. Why is this the litmus test for being qualified to write gun legislation? Do we also expect our lawmakers to have tried heroin or downloaded child porn so that they can regulate those activities?
  - some_random 9mo ago
    You're welcome to come up with a better litmus test, but it's beyond clear that lawmakers writing gun control regulation have less than a wikipedia level understanding of the topic. See "shoulder thing that goes up", the weird obsession with the Thompson, the entire concept of an Assault Weapon, etc.
socalgal2 9mo ago
And so, Nick Bostrom's total surveillance required, starts https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf
- AnthonyMouse 9mo ago
  The premise here would have to be that it was previously difficult for the majority of the population to obtain a weapon.
standardUser 9mo ago
Few people would bring an illegal firearm into NYC or other major US metros because a) the penalties in most of those cities and states can be brutal and b) it's not that difficult to acquire a legal firearm in most cities. If someone's smuggling a gun it's likely because it's just a small part of more varied criminal activity. Or because they did it by accident. Also, I find it unconscionable to suggest we should allow home manufacturing of automatic weapons without even engaging with possible ways to stem that tide.
- bluedino 9mo ago
  > Few people would bring an illegal firearm into NYC or other major US metros Someone is. They recover thousands of illegal guns in Chicago alone every year. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/report/firearms-trace-data/firearms-trace-data-illinois-2022 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/report/firearms-trace-data/fire...
hactually 9mo ago
Just imagine what happens when lawmakers discover the possibilities of every one with access to a lathe or CNC machine. Absolutely ridiculous.
- paradox460 9mo ago
  Or fire and a hammer
- debatem1 9mo ago
  Every time I see one of these stories I wonder how many tools I would have to remove from my garage to make it impossible to build a primitive gun in there. With enough ingenuity I'm really not sure there would be anything left.
  - tbrownaw 9mo ago
    Do potato cannons count?
    - stefanfisk 9mo ago
      The could if lawmakers wanted them to. Here in Sweden potato guns are actually illegal if the potato achieves 10+ joule.
      - Zak 9mo ago
        That's effectively a complete ban as a thrown potato would have considerably more energy than that. A quick web search suggests professional baseball pitchers achieve ~130J, and a potato is roughly comparable to a baseball in mass.
        stefanfisk 9mo ago
        Yep. I'm not saying that I'm for it, just that writing a law that bans them isn't all that hard.
    - 9mo ago
notepad0x90 9mo ago
is it because guns are easy to get without printing? Because it is possible to print molds for cast iron, I wonder what else you need beyond that (although, don't indulge me if the topic is going in the illegal direction).
- convolvatron 9mo ago
  not a gunsmith, but cast iron manages to be both soft and brittle at the same time. and the barrel and bearing parts would have to be machined anyways. you have to try to harden it too. its probably easier to just machine the whole thing out of decent quality steel. just guessing.
  - notepad0x90 9mo ago
    really? they didn't have machining in the 1700s. how about a good'ol musket? or a bit more modern: a gatling gun. I always thought those were made under coarse conditions. I mean, people just need something that makes a spark against gun powder,goes boom and shoots really fast projectiles. If a shotgun is possible, then an automatic shotgun doesn't feel like it's a stretch. I would think the firing mechanisms might not be tolerant of amateur techniques, but the reloading and trigger parts at least might be. I'm also not a gunsmith, no idea what I'm talking about for the record.
    - shit_game 9mo ago
      They certainly didn't have mills as we know them in the 1700s, but lathes, drills, and subtractive manufacturing had been in practice for millenia. You could say they were "machined by hand". Most early firearms (barring large-bore guns like cannons) were made from forged steel or iron, which is significantly stronger than cast iron due to its lower carbon content and regular grain structure. These forged parts were then worked on by gunspiths with cutters and abrasives to produce parts in tolerance for their mechanism. Cast iron (or more typically in early warfare, bronze) was suitable for cannons and large-bore guns due to the mass of the finished gun; more metal meant that the gun could withstand more shock, but even then they could fail catastrophically due to material fatigue or failure.
cjbgkagh 9mo ago
It’s becoming a thing, police don’t like to report on it because they don’t want to give people ideas. They didn’t want to report on Glock switches either. I do machining as a hobby and am interested in machining guns from an academic challenge perspective, I’ve not done it because I focus on making things I can’t buy. Guns from an academic perspective are fascinating, we’ve been making them for a long time in just about every possible way, and there is an easy way to measure and communicate quality, I.e. does it shoot and how accurate is it. I think the ban is absurd, the tech to make 3D printers / CNCs is pretty generic and someone sufficiently motivated to make a gun is unlikely to have difficulty putting together the machines to do it.
Retr0id 9mo ago
> Even the UK with our weird panic over Incredibly Specific Knives hasn't tried to do this kind of technical restriction to prevent people printing guns. They haven't done this specific restriction, but there is a movement to make it illegal to possess the CAD files: https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3877 https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3877
wombatpm 9mo ago
Does the UK ban shows like Forged in Fire that teach you how to make all sorts of specific blades?
- RansomStark 9mo ago
  No, and the blades created because of the methods used, would likely not be covered by the legislation anyway, theres a carve out for antiques and weapons made using traditional methods (now define traditional methods, because the law doesn't, but hammer and anvil would seem to be the most obvious traditional approach). However, in practice the police continually take and often destroy legally owned antiques claiming they are zombie swords. The law is written in such a way the police can take anything and you have to prove to a judge they aren't illegal. One very large example of such police practices: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RPm4Pts23Qg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RPm4Pts23Qg
throw3e98 9mo ago
I haven't printed a full firearm but I've printed some replacement/ergonomic parts for my legally purchased firearms. And there are people printing guns - you don't hear about it because they keep their mouth shut about it.
- Gigachad 9mo ago
  In countries that ban guns, 3D printers don't help much because you still can't get the other parts that aren't printed and you can't get bullets. 3D printed guns are only really viable in places where guns are already common.
  - throw3e98 9mo ago
    > because you still can't get the other parts that aren't printed Every part except the firing pin is now printable (you can print quite strong carbon-fiber reinforced parts at home). The firing pin can be made from a nail or similar piece of metal. > You can't get bullets Bullets are mostly easy enough to make. One of my neighbors growing up was a competitive shooter who competed nationally and internationally. He manufactured his own ammo in his home shop, using tools any boomer dad had access to, like a lathe, presses and very accurate scales. He didn't really pay any more for ammo than we did per round. The only reason criminals don't do it is because buying factory ammo on the gray and black market is so easy. The most difficult part to make would probably be the primers, but that still isn't difficult for any chemist. Here's a (old) video of someone in Europe making their own ammo at home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Cx4idIIe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Cx4idIIe0
    - mrheosuper 9mo ago
      In my country, Guns and Bullets are heavily controlled(Even airsoft is banned here). You can not get explosive unless you prove you have legit use for it(usually for mining). And of course DIY gun or bullet is no-no and you will be jailed. Even in police force or army, they literally count every single bullet, and for every fired bullet, it must be explained in detail. Maybe that's why we have low gun-related crime here.
thayne 9mo ago
> who this is coming from and why I would suspect it is at least partly because the gun that killed the United Healthcare CEO was partly 3D printed.
- bsimpson 9mo ago
  In other words, the most famous murder/assassination in NY in modern memory.
  - delecti 9mo ago
    Well it might be the second most famous now, having been supplanted by Charlie Kirk through recency if not also notability (harder to spin the motives of the UHC CEO's killer in a way that people aren't sympathetic to).
    - bsimpson 9mo ago
      That was in Utah.
- NoGravitas 9mo ago
  Allegedly, given chain of custody concerns with the evidence.
chippiewill 9mo ago
The UK doesn't need to put restrictions in for 3d printing guns because the viable approaches for 3d printing them usually require _some_ off the shelf gun parts not to mention actual ammunition which you can't feasibly acquire in the UK to begin with.
- ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
  You can acquire guns, gun parts, and ammunition quite easily in the UK, and entirely legally. You need to hold a suitable licence, which isn't expensive and is mostly an exercise in proving to the police that you're not a violent psychopath who's likely to run up to people in cars and shoot them in the face.
ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
> Why not? Because nobody is printing guns! People are printing guns. They're printing guns right here in the UK. Then they're taking them out to the firing range, setting them up on a test stand, firing them by remote control, and filming the ensuing carnage with high frame rate cameras. If you make a really really good 3D printed gun, it'll last at least two shots before it explodes into about a trillion razor-sharp fragments expanding rapidly outwards from where your hand used to be. The way you tell it's a really really good one is it didn't explode into a trillion fragments on the first shot. We've seen enough Terrifying Public Information Films about the dangers of fireworks to mess with that shit.
nenxk 9mo ago
Tbf to New York it is much easier to print a gun in the us I imagine than Europe for example a 3d printed Glock the controlled part is the lower which is just a plastic shell that ends up containing the trigger group and a few other parts which you can all by easily online the only other thing you need is the upper which is just the slide barrel and a few other parts you can buy them online already completed the only part you actually have to file a form for and get approved for the is lower specifically the plastic shell so in the us once you print that which is pretty simple you can order everything else online no need to file or register anything I imagine in the eu the other parts are much more controlled which raises the complexity by a ton you’d need a lot of tools/parts and expertise to create a ghost Glock in the eu that you wouldn’t in America and you’d still probably need some street connections for the ammo which is much easier to come by in America I’d bet. If it was as simple to get your hands on all the other parts in the eu I would imagine there would much much more 3d printed guns there. I still think it’s stupid everyone should be allowed to print as many glocks as they want especially if your having to live in New York Also atleast in America there is a very large 3d printed gun community lots of people are doing it I suggest checking out the PSR YouTube channel it’s a guy who is basically a real life dead pool who’s 3d printed every gun you can think of his videos are very entertaining and while you won’t learn much since YouTube restricts any teaching of gun manufacturing you may be surprised at how far 3d printed guns have come. His plastikov v4 video is good and pretty funny if I remember.
anigbrowl 9mo ago
Why not? Because nobody is printing guns! This is demonstrably untrue: https://gnet-research.org/2025/01/08/beyond-the-fgc-9-how-the-urutau-redefines-the-global-3d-printed-firearm-movement/ https://gnet-research.org/2025/01/08/beyond-the-fgc-9-how-th... Why would you waste everyone's time posting such nonsense? It's not that I support this legislation, but arguing against with counterfactual statements is unhelpful noise.

by pjc50 9mo ago

tcdent 9mo ago

Is this even a problem that needs to be solved? How many people have 3d printed guns and used them? Preemptive regulation is absurd.

dghlsakjg 9mo ago
Quite famously, Luigi Mangione. (allegedly) Of course, this is silliness since it is very easy to just buy a gun in the US, and it is also legal to make one in your garage.

mothballed 9mo ago

The 3d-printed hybrid FGC-9 is readily and commonly made all over Europe[0]. Most notoriously exhibit by 'jstark' in Germany[1]. Ammo is no problem, as can be made with off the shelf components available in EU[2]. And fairly reliable, if not oversized, 9mm pistol, primarily printed except with an ECM machined barrel that is easily DIY'd by 3d printing a mandrel for the rifling electrode and a simple bolt. A really nice gun all things considered for people with no other options, that can be built quickly using simple instructions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGC-9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGC-9 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygxGrxCEOp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygxGrxCEOp0 [2] https://odysee.com/@TheGatalog-Guides_Tutorials:b/BWA-Ammo-V1.0:b https://odysee.com/@TheGatalog-Guides_Tutorials:b/BWA-Ammo-V...

PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
I've been saying the same about deepfake noods of hot girls. Something something about distribution.

derekdahmer 9mo ago

Actual shootings with 3D printed guns are relatively rare but it’s come up because Luigi Mangione killed the United Healthcare CEO with one.

TehCorwiz 9mo ago
And they're still doing anything except addressing the grievances that lead to that. EDIT: I think you mean "allegedly"
- BobaFloutist 9mo ago
  Right, because most people recognize that the US has become sufficiently polarized and radicalized that "If enough people are mad at you, a complete stranger might shoot you" is not a theory of change we want to encourage. Yes, even for causes we agree with, most adults in the room understand that "people being mad at you" is pretty independent of how righteous your cause is, and even how civil and thoughtful you are in pursuing it.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - _heimdall 9mo ago
    Are you claiming that the most likely proximal cause for his murder was the legal ability to print a gun rather than any concerns or grievances the shooter may have had related to the healthcare industry or United Healthcare specifically?
    - BobaFloutist 9mo ago
      Yes, I think access to firearms affects the murder rate.
      - _heimdall 9mo ago
        That wasn't the topic though. Are you saying the United Health CEO's murder was motivated primarily by access to printing guns on a 3d printer?

talkinghead 9mo ago

i personally wouldn't described teenagers killing each other with luminous green hunting knives as a 'weird panic' but perhaps something that needs a lot of attention and a multitude of steps to solve. banning these insane weapons is, would you believe it, one quick step that might help.

bluescrn 9mo ago
Would they really do less stabbing if they had to use a mundane kitchen knife instead of a 'tacticool' knife or 'ninja sword'?
- silver_silver 9mo ago
  Not necessarily a lot less but I’m sure removing the aesthetic/cool factor reduces how often they’re carried
  - cjbgkagh 9mo ago
    Maybe if the law required all knives to be pink they might be too embarrassed to murder someone. One problem then is the switch to acid attacks which are just clear liquids in containers.
    - beeflet 9mo ago
      You could require that all acids are also dyed pink
    - int_19h 9mo ago
      It reminds me of a certain meme gun along these lines. https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/b4d9gy/unicorn_rifle/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/b4d9gy/unicorn_rifle... (Yes, it is a real gun and it shoots real 9mm bullets.)
pjc50 9mo ago
It's just very easily substitutable with regular knives? Plus the Offensive Weapons Act already covers them? I would be very surprised if it has made a difference. (those of us with longer memories remember the previous iteration and why the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles don't have "ninja" in their name in the UK)

milesvp 9mo ago

Could be the way guns are defined in UK are different. There is a fundamental problem in US law specifically, that you can purchase legally nearly any part of a gun separately, but only need to register the lower receiver. These are parts that take very little stress and can be relatively easily printed and used to hold together all the other parts that actually hold the stress of firing the bullet. This is at least true for some specific rifles, where there’s a whole industry around selling unfinished receivers that are relatively easy to mill down with common machining tools to be able to assemble unregistered rifles. My guess, is that these bills are a knee jerk reaction to constituents who’ve seen some tik toks talking about this. Though the conspiracist in me thinks that it’s mostly an excuse for control. This means, this bill is also coming for the UK too…

Duwensatzaj 9mo ago
Lower receiver being the serialized part isn’t universal. Many firearms have only a single receiver or only the upper receiver is serialized.
bluedino 9mo ago
> These are parts that take very little stress and can be relatively easily printed and used to hold together all the other parts that actually hold the stress of firing the bullet. A lot of the polymer guns (1911, AR15) need to be reinforced with metal at certain places for any kind of reliablity. A Glock doesn't need to be, because the material was invented by the designer of the gun and the gun was intended to be a polymer frame from the start.

pjbk 9mo ago

People print guns and gun parts. More than you think. Now even more since metal printing is starting to become affordable. I print grip and grip attachments for my 9mms and my AR15, trigger guards, barrel clamps, etc. I also find it stupid since, as the article suggests, what kind of algorithm can you implement to do smart detection of something that could be potentially dangerous? Will it also detect negative space? I print inserts in elastic filament with my gun outlines instead of foam (or as foam templates) for my carrying cases. Will the "algorithm" prevent me to do that too? What about my plastic disc thrower toy gun, or my PKD Blaster prop? Both look like guns to me. What about a dumb AI algorithm that lacks common sense? Printing barrels and FCUs -- the fire control unit, which is the only thing tracked and serialized in a gun at least in the US -- is more difficult but not impossible. Actually, building a functional FCU that can strike a bullet primer, or a barrel that can be used once is not difficult at all and if you look around you can find videos of people that have tested that with a mixture of 3d printing and rudimentary metal working skills. The major issues on designing those parts are reliability and safety. In the Philippines there is a full bootleg gunsmith industry dedicated to build illegal guns that match commercial ones in those aspects too. Sadly, instead of having better laws we get fallacy rhetoric by people who probably have never touched, much less fired a gun in their lives.

hyperbovine 9mo ago
> Sadly, instead of having better laws we get fallacy rhetoric by people who probably have never touched, much less fired a gun in their lives. Why is this the litmus test for being qualified to write gun legislation? Do we also expect our lawmakers to have tried heroin or downloaded child porn so that they can regulate those activities?
- some_random 9mo ago
  You're welcome to come up with a better litmus test, but it's beyond clear that lawmakers writing gun control regulation have less than a wikipedia level understanding of the topic. See "shoulder thing that goes up", the weird obsession with the Thompson, the entire concept of an Assault Weapon, etc.

socalgal2 9mo ago

And so, Nick Bostrom's total surveillance required, starts https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf

AnthonyMouse 9mo ago
The premise here would have to be that it was previously difficult for the majority of the population to obtain a weapon.

standardUser 9mo ago

Few people would bring an illegal firearm into NYC or other major US metros because a) the penalties in most of those cities and states can be brutal and b) it's not that difficult to acquire a legal firearm in most cities. If someone's smuggling a gun it's likely because it's just a small part of more varied criminal activity. Or because they did it by accident. Also, I find it unconscionable to suggest we should allow home manufacturing of automatic weapons without even engaging with possible ways to stem that tide.

bluedino 9mo ago
> Few people would bring an illegal firearm into NYC or other major US metros Someone is. They recover thousands of illegal guns in Chicago alone every year. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/report/firearms-trace-data/firearms-trace-data-illinois-2022 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/report/firearms-trace-data/fire...

hactually 9mo ago

Just imagine what happens when lawmakers discover the possibilities of every one with access to a lathe or CNC machine. Absolutely ridiculous.

paradox460 9mo ago
Or fire and a hammer
debatem1 9mo ago
Every time I see one of these stories I wonder how many tools I would have to remove from my garage to make it impossible to build a primitive gun in there. With enough ingenuity I'm really not sure there would be anything left.
- tbrownaw 9mo ago
  Do potato cannons count?
  - stefanfisk 9mo ago
    The could if lawmakers wanted them to. Here in Sweden potato guns are actually illegal if the potato achieves 10+ joule.
    - Zak 9mo ago
      That's effectively a complete ban as a thrown potato would have considerably more energy than that. A quick web search suggests professional baseball pitchers achieve ~130J, and a potato is roughly comparable to a baseball in mass.
      - stefanfisk 9mo ago
        Yep. I'm not saying that I'm for it, just that writing a law that bans them isn't all that hard.
  - 9mo ago

notepad0x90 9mo ago

is it because guns are easy to get without printing? Because it is possible to print molds for cast iron, I wonder what else you need beyond that (although, don't indulge me if the topic is going in the illegal direction).

convolvatron 9mo ago
not a gunsmith, but cast iron manages to be both soft and brittle at the same time. and the barrel and bearing parts would have to be machined anyways. you have to try to harden it too. its probably easier to just machine the whole thing out of decent quality steel. just guessing.
- notepad0x90 9mo ago
  really? they didn't have machining in the 1700s. how about a good'ol musket? or a bit more modern: a gatling gun. I always thought those were made under coarse conditions. I mean, people just need something that makes a spark against gun powder,goes boom and shoots really fast projectiles. If a shotgun is possible, then an automatic shotgun doesn't feel like it's a stretch. I would think the firing mechanisms might not be tolerant of amateur techniques, but the reloading and trigger parts at least might be. I'm also not a gunsmith, no idea what I'm talking about for the record.
  - shit_game 9mo ago
    They certainly didn't have mills as we know them in the 1700s, but lathes, drills, and subtractive manufacturing had been in practice for millenia. You could say they were "machined by hand". Most early firearms (barring large-bore guns like cannons) were made from forged steel or iron, which is significantly stronger than cast iron due to its lower carbon content and regular grain structure. These forged parts were then worked on by gunspiths with cutters and abrasives to produce parts in tolerance for their mechanism. Cast iron (or more typically in early warfare, bronze) was suitable for cannons and large-bore guns due to the mass of the finished gun; more metal meant that the gun could withstand more shock, but even then they could fail catastrophically due to material fatigue or failure.

cjbgkagh 9mo ago

It’s becoming a thing, police don’t like to report on it because they don’t want to give people ideas. They didn’t want to report on Glock switches either. I do machining as a hobby and am interested in machining guns from an academic challenge perspective, I’ve not done it because I focus on making things I can’t buy. Guns from an academic perspective are fascinating, we’ve been making them for a long time in just about every possible way, and there is an easy way to measure and communicate quality, I.e. does it shoot and how accurate is it. I think the ban is absurd, the tech to make 3D printers / CNCs is pretty generic and someone sufficiently motivated to make a gun is unlikely to have difficulty putting together the machines to do it.

Retr0id 9mo ago

> Even the UK with our weird panic over Incredibly Specific Knives hasn't tried to do this kind of technical restriction to prevent people printing guns. They haven't done this specific restriction, but there is a movement to make it illegal to possess the CAD files: https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3877 https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3877

wombatpm 9mo ago

Does the UK ban shows like Forged in Fire that teach you how to make all sorts of specific blades?

RansomStark 9mo ago
No, and the blades created because of the methods used, would likely not be covered by the legislation anyway, theres a carve out for antiques and weapons made using traditional methods (now define traditional methods, because the law doesn't, but hammer and anvil would seem to be the most obvious traditional approach). However, in practice the police continually take and often destroy legally owned antiques claiming they are zombie swords. The law is written in such a way the police can take anything and you have to prove to a judge they aren't illegal. One very large example of such police practices: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RPm4Pts23Qg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RPm4Pts23Qg

throw3e98 9mo ago

I haven't printed a full firearm but I've printed some replacement/ergonomic parts for my legally purchased firearms. And there are people printing guns - you don't hear about it because they keep their mouth shut about it.

Gigachad 9mo ago
In countries that ban guns, 3D printers don't help much because you still can't get the other parts that aren't printed and you can't get bullets. 3D printed guns are only really viable in places where guns are already common.
- throw3e98 9mo ago
  > because you still can't get the other parts that aren't printed Every part except the firing pin is now printable (you can print quite strong carbon-fiber reinforced parts at home). The firing pin can be made from a nail or similar piece of metal. > You can't get bullets Bullets are mostly easy enough to make. One of my neighbors growing up was a competitive shooter who competed nationally and internationally. He manufactured his own ammo in his home shop, using tools any boomer dad had access to, like a lathe, presses and very accurate scales. He didn't really pay any more for ammo than we did per round. The only reason criminals don't do it is because buying factory ammo on the gray and black market is so easy. The most difficult part to make would probably be the primers, but that still isn't difficult for any chemist. Here's a (old) video of someone in Europe making their own ammo at home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Cx4idIIe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Cx4idIIe0
  - mrheosuper 9mo ago
    In my country, Guns and Bullets are heavily controlled(Even airsoft is banned here). You can not get explosive unless you prove you have legit use for it(usually for mining). And of course DIY gun or bullet is no-no and you will be jailed. Even in police force or army, they literally count every single bullet, and for every fired bullet, it must be explained in detail. Maybe that's why we have low gun-related crime here.

thayne 9mo ago

> who this is coming from and why I would suspect it is at least partly because the gun that killed the United Healthcare CEO was partly 3D printed.

bsimpson 9mo ago
In other words, the most famous murder/assassination in NY in modern memory.
- delecti 9mo ago
  Well it might be the second most famous now, having been supplanted by Charlie Kirk through recency if not also notability (harder to spin the motives of the UHC CEO's killer in a way that people aren't sympathetic to).
  - bsimpson 9mo ago
    That was in Utah.
NoGravitas 9mo ago
Allegedly, given chain of custody concerns with the evidence.

chippiewill 9mo ago

The UK doesn't need to put restrictions in for 3d printing guns because the viable approaches for 3d printing them usually require _some_ off the shelf gun parts not to mention actual ammunition which you can't feasibly acquire in the UK to begin with.

ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
You can acquire guns, gun parts, and ammunition quite easily in the UK, and entirely legally. You need to hold a suitable licence, which isn't expensive and is mostly an exercise in proving to the police that you're not a violent psychopath who's likely to run up to people in cars and shoot them in the face.

ErroneousBosh 9mo ago

> Why not? Because nobody is printing guns! People are printing guns. They're printing guns right here in the UK. Then they're taking them out to the firing range, setting them up on a test stand, firing them by remote control, and filming the ensuing carnage with high frame rate cameras. If you make a really really good 3D printed gun, it'll last at least two shots before it explodes into about a trillion razor-sharp fragments expanding rapidly outwards from where your hand used to be. The way you tell it's a really really good one is it didn't explode into a trillion fragments on the first shot. We've seen enough Terrifying Public Information Films about the dangers of fireworks to mess with that shit.

nenxk 9mo ago

Tbf to New York it is much easier to print a gun in the us I imagine than Europe for example a 3d printed Glock the controlled part is the lower which is just a plastic shell that ends up containing the trigger group and a few other parts which you can all by easily online the only other thing you need is the upper which is just the slide barrel and a few other parts you can buy them online already completed the only part you actually have to file a form for and get approved for the is lower specifically the plastic shell so in the us once you print that which is pretty simple you can order everything else online no need to file or register anything I imagine in the eu the other parts are much more controlled which raises the complexity by a ton you’d need a lot of tools/parts and expertise to create a ghost Glock in the eu that you wouldn’t in America and you’d still probably need some street connections for the ammo which is much easier to come by in America I’d bet. If it was as simple to get your hands on all the other parts in the eu I would imagine there would much much more 3d printed guns there. I still think it’s stupid everyone should be allowed to print as many glocks as they want especially if your having to live in New York Also atleast in America there is a very large 3d printed gun community lots of people are doing it I suggest checking out the PSR YouTube channel it’s a guy who is basically a real life dead pool who’s 3d printed every gun you can think of his videos are very entertaining and while you won’t learn much since YouTube restricts any teaching of gun manufacturing you may be surprised at how far 3d printed guns have come. His plastikov v4 video is good and pretty funny if I remember.

anigbrowl 9mo ago

Why not? Because nobody is printing guns! This is demonstrably untrue: https://gnet-research.org/2025/01/08/beyond-the-fgc-9-how-the-urutau-redefines-the-global-3d-printed-firearm-movement/ https://gnet-research.org/2025/01/08/beyond-the-fgc-9-how-th... Why would you waste everyone's time posting such nonsense? It's not that I support this legislation, but arguing against with counterfactual statements is unhelpful noise.