3 ms·

Al is killing programming and the Python community

22 points by Nash0x7e2 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
jmclnx 8mo ago
For those who hate the new reddit https://old.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1qpq3cc/rant_ai_is_killing_programming_and_the_python/?share_id=nEJ3Ym5MD86yt1Atx5X56 https://old.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1qpq3cc/rant_ai_is_...
slowcache 8mo ago
This post is like 6 months late. I share the same concerns that others in the thread do, but the talking point is pretty tired by now
lmm 8mo ago
Python was already like that. A cascade of beginners cargo-culting other beginners, because it's easy enough to get started that everyone think's they're an expert and will blog about it. Switch to a language with a bit of a barrier to entry and you avoid the problem.
- tayo42 8mo ago
  People make the same posts in the rust subreddit Unless we need to go to languages even harder? Haskell?
  - smitty1e 8mo ago
    I'd estimate that Haskell + AI could reach cuneiform levels of inscrutability.
beej71 8mo ago
Imagine a world where npm and all the other library repositories are 99% AI slop. And the posts about which library to choose are 99% AI-generated. It'll be so hard to find anything in the chaff you might get your old job as a dev back. :)
- FeteCommuniste 8mo ago
  We'll have AIs doing our chaff-sifting for us, too, right?
  - dryarzeg 8mo ago
    padme.jpg
dryarzeg 8mo ago
I don't know if my point is valid or not, but... Stop blaming "AI" - whatever you mean by this. Whether it's an LLM, an LLM-based agent or something else - stop blaming AI and "AI" and LLMs and... you get the point. It's not the AI that makes the decision to, sorry for being straightforward, write the worthless code which feels like a piece of useless bloated trash. It's not the AI who makes decisions to do something without even understanding the topic - no matter how exactly you define "understanding" in this context. It's not AI who is responsible for this. Because whatever AI truly is right now - an autocomplete tool, advanced chatbot or, maybe, agent - whatever it is, the decisions are made by humans. AI is not responsible for anything that is happening right now. Humans and humans only are responsible for what's happening. It's their choice. It's their qualities that are clearly visible now. It's their behaviour. Stop blaming kitchen knives for murders.
- FeteCommuniste 8mo ago
  AI has made it exceptionally easy to generate "compiles/runs and looks plausible but is still fundamentally flawed" code at a much greater scale than ever before. Maybe the analogy should be a machine gun rather than a knife.
  - dryarzeg 8mo ago
    I've been discussing that with my friend just now, and he told me (direct citation): Well, yeah, stop blaming the knives. Blame the cooks ("vibecoders") who think they can manage a kitchen because the knife cuts everything in half automatically. But also don't forget to blame the knife manufacturer ("AI" companies) who markets automated knives to people who don't know you shouldn't cut toward yourself. I kind of agree. Some people don't understand how to code because they're lazy or have other issues, while others are trying to make a profit from it. I suppose you can tell who's who. But AI is directed by humans anyway. Instead of copy-pasting, a human could choose to try and write the code themselves, and then ask AI to review it and highlight areas for improvement. A human could choose to ask AI how to do things and then try to do it themselves. But if a human chooses to do things the other way, that's their choice. AI is not to blame here. It's still a human choice, and the person making it is the one who is actually responsible. Some people smoke. Smoking kills, and not only can smokers die from it, but other people can be harmed by passive smoking as well. It's very easy to start smoking. But blaming cigarettes themselves, as objects/entities/etc. isn't the answer, I guess. It was a certain person's choice to try smoking. It was also the choice of another person to advertise smoking in one way or another, however...
cyberrock 8mo ago
I think my experience with Python has been a lot worse than OP's. Random Python projects on GitHub always lacked polish and documentation. If anything my enjoyment of Python has skyrocket with uv, because I don't need to spend an hour guessing which Python 3.x version is compatible with your library.
- Nash0x7e2 8mo ago
  100%, uv is awesome
- zahlman 8mo ago
  > because I don't need to spend an hour guessing which Python 3.x version is compatible with your library. Of all the advantages uv has, I can't fathom how it's determining version compatibility other than by reading standard metadata files that pip perfectly well understands.
OutOfHere 8mo ago
It's game over, guys. With newer AI models and coding agents that you will see in the next year or two, resistance is futile. Move on to something else that is not purely a programming job. If you only move to a different programming language, the same outcome will inevitably follow you. Wages are expected to diminish. As a case in point, almost no one needs Assembly experts anymore. From a management pov, professional coding now comes down to specifying requirements precisely and having exhaustive tests for them, all AI generated.
Redoubts 8mo ago
Why can't you just ignore the bad projects? AI is probably super annoying if you're a maintainer getting slop PRs; but if you're a professional I don't see how this can vex you that much.
- xtiansimon 8mo ago
  HA! It’s like ignoring the student projects on GitHub when a professor encouraged all their students to create GitHub accounts and create repos of their social media analysis assignments.

22 points by Nash0x7e2 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

For those who hate the new reddit https://old.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1qpq3cc/rant_ai_is_killing_programming_and_the_python/?share_id=nEJ3Ym5MD86yt1Atx5X56 https://old.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1qpq3cc/rant_ai_is_...

slowcache 8mo ago

This post is like 6 months late. I share the same concerns that others in the thread do, but the talking point is pretty tired by now

lmm 8mo ago

Python was already like that. A cascade of beginners cargo-culting other beginners, because it's easy enough to get started that everyone think's they're an expert and will blog about it. Switch to a language with a bit of a barrier to entry and you avoid the problem.

tayo42 8mo ago
People make the same posts in the rust subreddit Unless we need to go to languages even harder? Haskell?
- smitty1e 8mo ago
  I'd estimate that Haskell + AI could reach cuneiform levels of inscrutability.

beej71 8mo ago

Imagine a world where npm and all the other library repositories are 99% AI slop. And the posts about which library to choose are 99% AI-generated. It'll be so hard to find anything in the chaff you might get your old job as a dev back. :)

FeteCommuniste 8mo ago
We'll have AIs doing our chaff-sifting for us, too, right?
- dryarzeg 8mo ago
  padme.jpg

dryarzeg 8mo ago

I don't know if my point is valid or not, but... Stop blaming "AI" - whatever you mean by this. Whether it's an LLM, an LLM-based agent or something else - stop blaming AI and "AI" and LLMs and... you get the point. It's not the AI that makes the decision to, sorry for being straightforward, write the worthless code which feels like a piece of useless bloated trash. It's not the AI who makes decisions to do something without even understanding the topic - no matter how exactly you define "understanding" in this context. It's not AI who is responsible for this. Because whatever AI truly is right now - an autocomplete tool, advanced chatbot or, maybe, agent - whatever it is, the decisions are made by humans. AI is not responsible for anything that is happening right now. Humans and humans only are responsible for what's happening. It's their choice. It's their qualities that are clearly visible now. It's their behaviour. Stop blaming kitchen knives for murders.

FeteCommuniste 8mo ago
AI has made it exceptionally easy to generate "compiles/runs and looks plausible but is still fundamentally flawed" code at a much greater scale than ever before. Maybe the analogy should be a machine gun rather than a knife.
- dryarzeg 8mo ago
  I've been discussing that with my friend just now, and he told me (direct citation): Well, yeah, stop blaming the knives. Blame the cooks ("vibecoders") who think they can manage a kitchen because the knife cuts everything in half automatically. But also don't forget to blame the knife manufacturer ("AI" companies) who markets automated knives to people who don't know you shouldn't cut toward yourself. I kind of agree. Some people don't understand how to code because they're lazy or have other issues, while others are trying to make a profit from it. I suppose you can tell who's who. But AI is directed by humans anyway. Instead of copy-pasting, a human could choose to try and write the code themselves, and then ask AI to review it and highlight areas for improvement. A human could choose to ask AI how to do things and then try to do it themselves. But if a human chooses to do things the other way, that's their choice. AI is not to blame here. It's still a human choice, and the person making it is the one who is actually responsible. Some people smoke. Smoking kills, and not only can smokers die from it, but other people can be harmed by passive smoking as well. It's very easy to start smoking. But blaming cigarettes themselves, as objects/entities/etc. isn't the answer, I guess. It was a certain person's choice to try smoking. It was also the choice of another person to advertise smoking in one way or another, however...

cyberrock 8mo ago

I think my experience with Python has been a lot worse than OP's. Random Python projects on GitHub always lacked polish and documentation. If anything my enjoyment of Python has skyrocket with uv, because I don't need to spend an hour guessing which Python 3.x version is compatible with your library.

Nash0x7e2 8mo ago
100%, uv is awesome
zahlman 8mo ago
> because I don't need to spend an hour guessing which Python 3.x version is compatible with your library. Of all the advantages uv has, I can't fathom how it's determining version compatibility other than by reading standard metadata files that pip perfectly well understands.

OutOfHere 8mo ago

It's game over, guys. With newer AI models and coding agents that you will see in the next year or two, resistance is futile. Move on to something else that is not purely a programming job. If you only move to a different programming language, the same outcome will inevitably follow you. Wages are expected to diminish. As a case in point, almost no one needs Assembly experts anymore. From a management pov, professional coding now comes down to specifying requirements precisely and having exhaustive tests for them, all AI generated.

Redoubts 8mo ago

Why can't you just ignore the bad projects? AI is probably super annoying if you're a maintainer getting slop PRs; but if you're a professional I don't see how this can vex you that much.

xtiansimon 8mo ago
HA! It’s like ignoring the student projects on GitHub when a professor encouraged all their students to create GitHub accounts and create repos of their social media analysis assignments.