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Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads, and I think the response is similar: Asking for "no p

Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads, and I think the response is similar: Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view: One in support/service of whatever the current status quo is. Trying to set oneself apart from (or above) politics is itself political. If you're lucky enough to be one of the fortunate people on earth who are not under attack by political forces or who benefit from status quo politics, I'd encourage you to simply reflect on that good luck and try to ignore the "politics" that others are deeply affected by and care about.

LoganDark 9mo ago
I don't care for the current status quo at all. The current administration has wrecked this country and completely compromised its position in the global economy potentially forever. But there is a time and a place for those arguments and activism, as well as the same for other parts of the world suffering from similar or worse issues. Like, I wouldn't be receptive to hearing about Ukraine every time I go to the grocery store. When I want to hear about it I go to the YouTube channels documenting it! They're very interesting, but I need to be in a space to receive it. Similarly there are places where I'm not specifically looking for it but where I'd be receptive because it's not immediately irrelevant to something I'm doing. Otherwise it is just noise. This is absolutely no statement about the status quo, but just how my brain works. It's also not a statement against activism in general, just about my personal opinion of it in certain places.
- suprstarrd 9mo ago
  I want to start by saying it's good that you are at least taking the time to look for this information! Stay healthily informed. I see this as a bad analogy though: you wouldn't hear about it every time you go to the grocery store. Or, at the very least, you wouldn't stop and listen for the fifth time. You already know, and that's the point: the intention of most activism in technology (at least that I see) is to make you initially aware of it so you start to seek the information out and learn more elsewhere. (...And to give themselves good PR. We love rainbow capitalism /s) Instagram and Twitter both get your attention during election season because they want you to be informed about how to vote. To me, that's a similar thing.
- davorak 9mo ago
  > Otherwise it is just noise. This is absolutely no statement about the status quo, but just how my brain works. It's also not a statement against activism in general, just about my personal opinion of it in certain places. I considered the majority of the population to be affected by repeated messaging, messages in the background, or in other words availability bias. So the messaging be having the desired effect on society in general but not on some subset who filter it out completely.
  - LoganDark 9mo ago
    It has an effect on me too: it makes me begin to extra-quickly ignore any messaging of that sort. I become so tired of it that it starts actively frustrating me to see. And I bother people to take it elsewhere. This is a behavioral issue on my part, but I'm still struggling to justify to myself that they couldn't be getting more out of it by putting it somewhere more appropriate.
    - davorak 9mo ago
      > I become so tired of it that it starts actively frustrating me to see. Something similar, significantly different though, happen to a friend. They started distrusting the incogni.com after seeing their advertisements over and over again. To them they saw/felt/reasoned that only an untrustworthy actor would be pushing the messaging so much and a trustworthy actor would rely more on word of mouth via their good product inspiring people to speak up about them. I had to point out that they probably saw much more of incogni's advertising due to their rate and type of media consumption and most people probably do not get that level of exposure. If incogni lowered their advertisements to hit them correctly it would not be nearly enough advertising to reach the average consumer. I see the frustration at the repeated messaging to likely be a natural protective mechanism. Instinctively reject repeated messages is not necessarily a bad instinct since manipulative people will use repeated messaging to manipulate, but repeated message exposure does not only happen due to an attempt to manipulate.
- Der_Einzige 9mo ago
  The whole reason why Notepad ++, vim, etc have to do this is because no one wants to take one for the team and protest/put their neck on the line. I don't want to either, and indeed I really want others to do it for me. As such, I really want to see even MORE political stuff like this to hopefully create folks who will actually protest and put their neck on the line. Similar reason why US military propaganda is good. I never EVER want to be drafted and indeed if you put a gun in my hand and military fatigues on me, I will die with a shot in the ass (because I am running away). Thankfully, we have a bunch of hardened 20-somethings "manipulated" into joining the military and protecting us so that I can be lazy. So please ratchet up the politics and get others out so I don't have to. It's not that hard to ignore yet another plea for help. We do it every hour of every day.
- eloisius 9mo ago
  It’s all well and good for you if you want to be a consumer of political content when it suits you, but for a creator, the creation’s whole purpose may be a delivery mechanism for their message which may otherwise go unheard. Not saying this is necessarily what Don Ho (Notepad++) is doing, but it’s possible. Create something so good that people can’t help but use it (preferably the demographic you most want to reach, for example a country with a huge base of Windows users) and then use it as your message delivery mechanism.
  - lelanthran 9mo ago
    Both the points: 1. I don't want to see political messages in unrelated delivery mechanisms and 2. I created $PRODUCT as a delivery mechanism for a political message are equally valid. I feel that the problem that comes about is when a $PRODUCT was not created as a delivery mechanism but is being co-opted into being one at some later stage; the audience feels deceived and the creator feels that the audience is ungrateful. I'm not very familiar with Notepad++ (having never used it, nor experienced any desire to try it), but I'm fairly certain that the creator has been political long enough now that the audience cannot complain about the message being delivered with the product. It's like complaining about Vim having a message for the plight of Ugandans - it's been there for decades; too late to complain now about it. I'm more sympathetic to complaints over projects which never had a specific political message suddenly acquiring one when they realised what a large audience they had, or when new people join a decades-old project and introduce a political message that was never there before. I can sorta understand outrage then.
- viraptor 9mo ago
  You may not be in the right state, but the point of that part of the website is that it's a donation link. It will drive some people to help. If it's at the cost of some others getting grumpy about too much messaging... that's probably still worth it.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  > There is a time and place for activism Conveniently, it's never here, and it's never now. I think MLK Junior wrote a speech about this? Letter from a Birmingham Jail: https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....
Aeglaecia 9mo ago
i dont see how saying "no politics" is similar to asking "why is there political messaging literally everywhere" , do you see how conflating the two is the exact behaviour that the original commenter was trying to discuss ?
- idiotsecant 9mo ago
  Choosing not to engage politically is not a neutral action. Life is politics. The world is full of people that are trying to control your life in a thousand different ways. Choosing to not engage in support or opposition to that control doesn't mean you aren't participating, it means your default position is letting them do what they want.
  - davorak 9mo ago
    > Choosing to not engage in support or opposition I do not think it is uncommon for someone to do this, then see the side they oppose win more in elections, public perception, etc then decide to engage more and that is "why is there political messaging literally everywhere". Since we can't remove it, the next best alternative is to participate and advocate for responsible political engagement. I think until we have some shared understanding of what responsible political engagement is we will continue to have it everywhere.
  - Aeglaecia 9mo ago
    the original commenter has explicitly stated willingness to engage politically , he has also stated this is not something he is willing to do when it is interrupting his seperate personal choices , concluding with an observation that others tend to conflate non-constant political will with a constant apolitical view. can you please explain how you are not conflating these two concepts ?
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Is choosing to set certain parts of one’s life apart from politics equivalent to “choosing not to engage politically?” If so then shouldn’t every action that you take be imbued with politics, including the choice of how long you brush your teeth and when, where, and how you sleep? Or are certain things exempt from the rule, but not posting on HN? If that’s the case, why does posting on HN require political engagement but not, say, your interactions with the clerk at the grocery store? Are those of us who fail to inform every person we meet about our political views choosing not to engage politically? Even if we dedicate a certain portion of our lives to political engagement? Edit: I’ll also add that political messaging is highly contextual. What is appropriate and effective in one place may be counterproductive or actively harmful elsewhere. Format and tone actually matter if you care about your pet cause succeeding, believe it or not.
stirfish 9mo ago
Sometimes when the politics deeply affects you, you just need a little break from it.
- LoganDark 9mo ago
  You can't take a break from that. I have transgender friends who fear for their life every day. They don't know what is going to happen to their rights or their healthcare. I have diabetic friends who can't work and also fear for their life because losing Medicaid would mean they will stop being able to afford insulin and will die. This is what people mean when they talk about politics being important. It's not just things that don't affect you, which is what most people mean when they say they don't care about politics. As soon as something affects you, you will understand.
  - jajuuka 9mo ago
    And if all you do all day is worry about someone else's or your own problems and politics you will not survive. Everyone has problems. Every single person has an issue that could cause them to die or a political event that could cause them harm. Your friends are not special or unique. There are billions of people who don't know if they will have food for their next meal, don't have money to pay rent, struggle with an addiction, etc. It's okay to watch a show about knights and demons and enjoy it. It's okay to use a piece of software that doesn't code every release as a protest against something. Instead of judging other people for not burning out, maybe take a break yourself. It's okay and normal.
  - subsistence234 9mo ago
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NedF 9mo ago
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esperent 9mo ago
I partially agree, but as a non-US user of the English speaking internet, the issue is with specifically US politics and social issues being everywhere. It drowns out all attempts at discourse for anything else, and Americans, including people here, seem uniquely incapable of nuance in their thinking when it comes to politics. So, while I fully agree with your stance that banning political discourse is support for the status quo, I also think that it's reasonable to ask for it to be toned down a bit, especially when the politics and social issues of one country is basically drowning out everything else. All that said, I'm talking mostly about HN or other community forums here. The owner of Notepad++ has the right to put whatever they want into their software, and if we're discussing that here on HN then it's an occasion where discussing politics is valid.
- shiroiuma 9mo ago
  This is a good point. What would people think if there was constant political discussion here about, for instance, South Sudan and things happening there now? I'm sure there's bad stuff going on there and it's unfortunately, but if we had constant references to and discussions about the internal politics of South Sudan, I think a lot of people would get annoyed about issues that don't affect them at all in their day-to-day lives, esp. when they're coming here for discussions about technically- and computer-related topics. That must be how it seems for American political discussions.
  - LoganDark 9mo ago
    Do you think it's socially acceptable to ignore everything that doesn't affect you personally? Many activists would certainly have you think otherwise. As far as I can tell, fighting that habit is a huge goal of activism.
    - FormerBandmate 9mo ago
      A huge chunk of activism is pointless and annoying. Especially when every cause is lumped together into Activism (TM) and the Omnicause. I don’t agree with them and I don’t think they should be in my software, or dealing with anything they don’t understand (for instance crime, homeless people, geopolitics, or really anything outside of overpriced vegan coffee shops). All they really do is end up getting Fox News people to vote for fascists like Trump out of spite
getnormality 9mo ago
Nah, it doesn't mean they support the status quo. It just means some political tactics are pointless, incompetent, and counterproductive. Political opinions about how things should be don't automatically dictate the actions that should be taken in support of those opinions. I can be mad about a law or a court decision and still have the good sense to, for example, not throw red paint on a lawmaker or judge. Some behaviors just aren't helpful, and neither being right nor being upset changes that.
- popalchemist 9mo ago
  It intrinsically does. Whatever stance changes nothing or prefers to change nothing is a vote for the status quo, by definition.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    > Whatever stance changes nothing .. is a vote for the status quo, by definition. As problematic as the assertion "by definition" is aside, it should be noted that endlessly commenting about politics on internet forums effectively changes nothing. I've been kettled by mounted officers and hit by high pressure hoses on cold evenings, something that also rarely effects change .. but that's a least a fun night out with people and better than wasting bits on the intertubes.
    - popalchemist 9mo ago
      Whether it's a waste is not entirely up to you. There are plenty of people on this forum who are completely naive and live in a bubble. The chance that a comment they see her could make a lightbulb go off is non-zero. But if I were a nihilist I might agree with you.
      - defrost 9mo ago
        So write good comments, neutral in tone, avoid preaching, stick to the facts, gently emphasize how laws are being broken without an excess of righteuosness, see the people whose opinions you oppose and find common ground to pivot to your position, etc. When last we crossed you appeared to be lecturing people while incorrectly paraphrasing their actual position (aka strawmanning)( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46793399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46793399 ). FWiW I recall handing a guitar (I hear they kill facists) to Billy Bragg way back when he was on tour Talking to the Taxman About Poetry and FYI he's back, again, following Springsteen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOW2ZikGW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOW2ZikGW8 So, good luck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2QOwQdHL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2QOwQdHL8 Maybe sidestep becoming a parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1_uEbGJtnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1_uEbGJtnY
b65e8bee43c2ed0 9mo ago
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- dymk 9mo ago
  Ukraine and Taiwan are only relevant to Americans, right
  - b65e8bee43c2ed0 9mo ago
    iirc, Notepad++'s "I support the current thing" was about Honk Kong, not Taiwan.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      Hong Kong is only relevant to Americans, right...
joejoe638 9mo ago
This is about being productive and weighing the overall value of things. The politicisation of software is as harmful as requiring every research paper to be published with a political allegiance banner. Software like most Sciences, Engineering, and, Trade is a much longer game for humanity than politics de jour. It is easy to forget the extent of contributions from all sides of politics that has contributed to this trade, from Mohammed Algorithm to English, Russian, Chinese, and, everyone else to computing; but forgetting that and forging that for quick political hack points is a disservice to humanity.
- pixl97 9mo ago
  >Software like most Sciences, Engineering, and Trade are much longer game for humanity than politics de jour. Not really, software, like sciences and engineering must survive politics first. If humans start tossing around nukes like angry apes then those that survive may be scratching simple arithmetic with a charcoal stick on a cave wall.
  - joejoe638 9mo ago
    This take is completely blind to how sciences has worked throughout history of humanity and specifically post major world wars. Additionally, it is based on a false notion that political banners in software helps in pursuing anyone let alone change political outcomes.
    - deathanatos 9mo ago
      Science has absolutely engaged in the politics du jour, including in major world wars. See, for example, the Szilárd petition[1]. (If you need a post-WWII example, those same scientists continued petitioning after the war on the dangers of nukes, too.) Further, political banners in software have absolute helped, and have changed political outcomes. As an example of that, SOPA, and later PIPA, were defeated by websites such as Wikipedia (which are software) putting banners aimed at informing the public of those bills. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szil%C3%A1rd_petition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szil%C3%A1rd_petition
gruez 9mo ago
>Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads, and I think the response is similar: Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view: One in support/service of whatever the current status quo is. Before I respond to your comment, allow me first to acknowledge the following injustices happening in the world: * war in gaza * war in ukraine * civil war in sudan * civil war in yemen * civil war in myanmar * ethnic violence in syria * insurgent attacks in nigeria * insurgent attacks in congo * attacks on protesters in Iran ... Wait, what's that? You don't want every comment to start with some sort of land acknowledgement-esque disclaimer of all injustices happening in the world? What are you, some sort of gaza war/ukraine war/sudanese civil war/ ... sympathizer? Tens, if not hundreds of millions have been affected by the event listed above, so at the very least you can spare a thought for them before discussing about some text editor getting compromised? You might argue acknowledging the war in gaza is beating a dead horse, but do you think the median HN reader has thought about the civil war in myanmar in the past month?
p_ing 9mo ago
> Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads In the context of forums, the political threads are generally /not interesting/[0]. Political threads often devolve; they bring nothing 'new' or 'fresh' to the table, and they lead absolutely no where. It's a fart-in-the-wind situation no matter what your position is. Leave that stuff on reddit where the rest of the farts-in-the-wind go to waste. It's like watching commentators on Fox News or CNN or <insert favorite cable TV show here>. They're a large waste of time and they're often geared towards re-enforcing your side, aka echo chamber. Now, if a thread actually evolved into real measurable action, that might actually be interesting. But that's not what happens on these forums. There's probably very few of us that see some HN thread talking about something awful happening somewhere and they take direct action, such as petitioning their government, protesting, etc. It's probably happened once or twice, but most of the farts in those threads just hang around and stink up the place. Please stop stinking up HN. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
NuclearPM 9mo ago
There’s a difference between arguing over the tax rate and ignoring fascism. At a certain point there is nothing more important than “politics”.
- joejoe638 9mo ago
  The issue with making something so universal as software, specifically scientific software political is that it operates in such a broad context that every political statement sooner or later will seem comical outside a very narrow scope. Your comment is a good example of it; who is dictator? The people who hacked the software or the political pole they support? At what point did they become fascist enough to warrant politicalisation of everything ?
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    If the main problem is that "sooner or later it will seem comical" I don't think this problem is severe enough to justify the number of words that have been written on HN about this topic.
eunos 9mo ago
> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view We are all Schmittian now
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chii 9mo ago
> One in support/service of whatever the current status quo is. Trying to set oneself apart from (or above) politics is itself political. apparently, it's OK to have this stance of "if you're not with us, you're against us". It's absolutely possible to not want political discussions in various places - it doesn't mean you support one or the other side. It simply means you don't want that discussion here. You could support the incumbents or not - not wanting the discussion does not imply support for the incumbents.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  it's not the mere lack of being with, it's the enthusiastic, public advertisement that you are not with. If you are actually neither with nor against, then you don't have any need to say anything about the issue at all. If you make a big deal about not being with or against, most people who do that are against but don't want to say so.
tjwebbnorfolk 9mo ago
Not wanting politics crammed into every nook and cranny of daily life is not a "political" view of one kind or another, it's a preference for how I want to consume information and interact with people. There is such a thing as being able to act and think in ways that aren't political in nature. Maybe not for you, but it absolutely is possible.
- anonymous908213 9mo ago
  Way to completely and totally miss the point. I don't actually think you could've missed the point any harder than you did. Politics are quite literally life-or-death for many people. War is politics. Access to healthcare is politics. Economic policy that determines whether businesses and careers succeed or fail is politics. Freedom to say what you want, believe or not believe in whatever religion you want, and be who you are without being imprisoned is politics. The people who make the most noise about politics are the people who are literally dying for as long as the rest of society ignores their plight. If this isn't the case for you, it's because you benefit from the status quo. It is the definition of privilege to be able to "ignore politics". That means you are currently benefitting from politics. Of course you don't want to hear about politics, politics are doing just fine for you. And the comment you were asking to was asking you to reflect on that: if the biggest problem gracing you is hearing other people make noise about circumstances, the least you could do is deal with it. Your problems are trivial if that is what gets you upset. Other people are complaining about things that affect the outcome of their lives and you're complaining about... having to hear it.
  - tjwebbnorfolk 9mo ago
    That you seem to believe politics exists to solve people's problems is probably the reason you feel it is so important. I'm sorry that you are so profoundly confused.
    - anonymous908213 9mo ago
      Oh, you're one of those bootstrappy libertarians, I'm taking it. Everything you've ever done is by your own two merits, right? Nevermind the fact that you take society's roads and use society's technology, which are the results of politics. You drink society's water and eat society's food, which are the results of politics. You enjoy the security of not being invaded by enemy tribes nor your neighbors, which are the results of politics. "Politics" is simply a word describing how humans act in groups. Given that how we act in groups determines the entirety of our lives, there is no separating anything from politics. You seem to have taken my comment as "the government is responsible for solving people's problems", but politics are just as much about dealing with the problems it creates. When politics are going well you can ignore it; when they are going poorly they can end your life so you make a lot of noise about it to get other people to try to care. In either case, though, your life is entirely the result of political forces unless you're living in the jungle completely detached from society.
mshroyer 9mo ago
> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view No, it explicitly is not, and this "deepity" doesn't change any rational analysis. The injection of politics into every aspect of society must and should be refused.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Can you name some aspects of society that are non–political? I can't think of many. Maybe the frequency spectrum of sunlight?
  - hnuser123456 9mo ago
    Politics is more of a way of thinking and speaking than about any specific topic. For those of us who see a lot of problems with society but know that things will never be how they "should be", it is healthy to limit amount of time spent thinking about problems that cannot and will not be solved.
  - akimbostrawman 9mo ago
    please tell me about the intricate politics of a phone booth. just because you can make everything political doesn't mean it is inherently political or doesn't make you look like a terminal online annoying loser when you try to compensate for your vapid personality outside of ideological dogma.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      Phone booths are made by the phone company to increase the money they make, that's political. Phone booths are made with more or less shielding implying a greater or lesser danger to their occupant, that's politics. The ones at the airport have glass dividers while the ones at the lonely gas station at night are fully enclosed with thick glass. Different ones have different amounts of graffiti and different likelihood of being vandalised at any given time. You will find this correlates with demographics. Phone booths have disappeared as we all got portable phones in our pockets, but those phones also track us and some people might prefer the relative privacy of an impersonal phone booth, but can't because they no longer exist.
appreciatorBus 9mo ago
Not wanting politics on HN, need not imply support of the status quo, or even a lack of interest in politics. It can simply be a different belief about the purpose of online forums. I read about politics all day long in many different places. My belief that HN should be relatively free of such stories is not because I believe I can detach myself from politics, but because I believe topic based forums are more valuable and useful than “anything goes” forums.
- stackbutterflow 9mo ago
  Allowing politics on HN doesn't mean discussing politics in every thread. If it's a story about someone who improved performance of their system by using Rust then sure there's no need to bring anything political. But threads about Nvidia, Tesla, encryption, internet blackouts, social media, startups investments, etc, all warrants political discourse.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    The use of Rust is already political!
  - appreciatorBus 9mo ago
    I wish that were true, but in my experience so far, it isn’t. Not only does politics and general stories crowd out everything else over time on other sites, there are HN submitters who seem to be trying to accelerate this. During the war, when HN was getting Israel-Palestine stories constantly, I started looking at the submission history of some of the submitters, and some of them were just pushing these types of stories every day for months and months. So yes, I think allowing politics will eventually mean being dominated by politics and general interest.
    - alighter 9mo ago
      Globalizing the intifada means pushing an agenda everywhere, including on HN, on posts where it is relevant and on posts where some obscure or conspiratorial connection can be made. If HN is going to allow accusations to be slung against groups of people it has to allow others to respond, and that sets off endless debate amongst people who will not be changing their minds on the matter but will repeat the same argument on the next post.
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teo_zero 9mo ago
> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view If this is true, I'd like to know what a weak political view is instead!
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  "I think taxes should be 2% higher"
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illiac786 9mo ago
Fully agree, it’s akin to atheists, they very often are convinced they are not religious. Agnostics are the unreligious ones. In fact, atheists are the most fanatical zealots in my friends circle.
GaryBluto 9mo ago
I'm tired of this. I look anywhere, I see politics. At the end of the day all this does is alienate me from anything that isn't the status quo anywhere, because all I see of the opposition of it is constant incessant whining and the prevention of my relaxation. It's a selfish view but I don't care.
expedition32 9mo ago
I always imagine how long one can keep ignoring politics? When they bust down your door and put you in the black van? They are making a mistake I was never political!
illusive4080 9mo ago
I disagree. I want to separate my technology from politics. I consume politics through other venues. I don’t want HN full of political articles. It doesn’t mean I support status quo. It means I don’t want this one website pushing politics, which it increasingly does. HN discussions are usually very high quality and respectful disagreement therein, which is unique online nowadays. I’ve come here to escape Reddit, which is all politics all the time. If this place turns as political as Reddit, I’m out.
hulitu 9mo ago
> Trying to set oneself apart from (or above) politics is itself political. we are just sick of propaganda. And of pissing contests. And of "mine is longer than yours" content.

LoganDark 9mo ago

I don't care for the current status quo at all. The current administration has wrecked this country and completely compromised its position in the global economy potentially forever. But there is a time and a place for those arguments and activism, as well as the same for other parts of the world suffering from similar or worse issues. Like, I wouldn't be receptive to hearing about Ukraine every time I go to the grocery store. When I want to hear about it I go to the YouTube channels documenting it! They're very interesting, but I need to be in a space to receive it. Similarly there are places where I'm not specifically looking for it but where I'd be receptive because it's not immediately irrelevant to something I'm doing. Otherwise it is just noise. This is absolutely no statement about the status quo, but just how my brain works. It's also not a statement against activism in general, just about my personal opinion of it in certain places.

suprstarrd 9mo ago
I want to start by saying it's good that you are at least taking the time to look for this information! Stay healthily informed. I see this as a bad analogy though: you wouldn't hear about it every time you go to the grocery store. Or, at the very least, you wouldn't stop and listen for the fifth time. You already know, and that's the point: the intention of most activism in technology (at least that I see) is to make you initially aware of it so you start to seek the information out and learn more elsewhere. (...And to give themselves good PR. We love rainbow capitalism /s) Instagram and Twitter both get your attention during election season because they want you to be informed about how to vote. To me, that's a similar thing.
davorak 9mo ago
> Otherwise it is just noise. This is absolutely no statement about the status quo, but just how my brain works. It's also not a statement against activism in general, just about my personal opinion of it in certain places. I considered the majority of the population to be affected by repeated messaging, messages in the background, or in other words availability bias. So the messaging be having the desired effect on society in general but not on some subset who filter it out completely.
- LoganDark 9mo ago
  It has an effect on me too: it makes me begin to extra-quickly ignore any messaging of that sort. I become so tired of it that it starts actively frustrating me to see. And I bother people to take it elsewhere. This is a behavioral issue on my part, but I'm still struggling to justify to myself that they couldn't be getting more out of it by putting it somewhere more appropriate.
  - davorak 9mo ago
    > I become so tired of it that it starts actively frustrating me to see. Something similar, significantly different though, happen to a friend. They started distrusting the incogni.com after seeing their advertisements over and over again. To them they saw/felt/reasoned that only an untrustworthy actor would be pushing the messaging so much and a trustworthy actor would rely more on word of mouth via their good product inspiring people to speak up about them. I had to point out that they probably saw much more of incogni's advertising due to their rate and type of media consumption and most people probably do not get that level of exposure. If incogni lowered their advertisements to hit them correctly it would not be nearly enough advertising to reach the average consumer. I see the frustration at the repeated messaging to likely be a natural protective mechanism. Instinctively reject repeated messages is not necessarily a bad instinct since manipulative people will use repeated messaging to manipulate, but repeated message exposure does not only happen due to an attempt to manipulate.
Der_Einzige 9mo ago
The whole reason why Notepad ++, vim, etc have to do this is because no one wants to take one for the team and protest/put their neck on the line. I don't want to either, and indeed I really want others to do it for me. As such, I really want to see even MORE political stuff like this to hopefully create folks who will actually protest and put their neck on the line. Similar reason why US military propaganda is good. I never EVER want to be drafted and indeed if you put a gun in my hand and military fatigues on me, I will die with a shot in the ass (because I am running away). Thankfully, we have a bunch of hardened 20-somethings "manipulated" into joining the military and protecting us so that I can be lazy. So please ratchet up the politics and get others out so I don't have to. It's not that hard to ignore yet another plea for help. We do it every hour of every day.
eloisius 9mo ago
It’s all well and good for you if you want to be a consumer of political content when it suits you, but for a creator, the creation’s whole purpose may be a delivery mechanism for their message which may otherwise go unheard. Not saying this is necessarily what Don Ho (Notepad++) is doing, but it’s possible. Create something so good that people can’t help but use it (preferably the demographic you most want to reach, for example a country with a huge base of Windows users) and then use it as your message delivery mechanism.
- lelanthran 9mo ago
  Both the points: 1. I don't want to see political messages in unrelated delivery mechanisms and 2. I created $PRODUCT as a delivery mechanism for a political message are equally valid. I feel that the problem that comes about is when a $PRODUCT was not created as a delivery mechanism but is being co-opted into being one at some later stage; the audience feels deceived and the creator feels that the audience is ungrateful. I'm not very familiar with Notepad++ (having never used it, nor experienced any desire to try it), but I'm fairly certain that the creator has been political long enough now that the audience cannot complain about the message being delivered with the product. It's like complaining about Vim having a message for the plight of Ugandans - it's been there for decades; too late to complain now about it. I'm more sympathetic to complaints over projects which never had a specific political message suddenly acquiring one when they realised what a large audience they had, or when new people join a decades-old project and introduce a political message that was never there before. I can sorta understand outrage then.
viraptor 9mo ago
You may not be in the right state, but the point of that part of the website is that it's a donation link. It will drive some people to help. If it's at the cost of some others getting grumpy about too much messaging... that's probably still worth it.
direwolf20 9mo ago
> There is a time and place for activism Conveniently, it's never here, and it's never now. I think MLK Junior wrote a speech about this? Letter from a Birmingham Jail: https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....

Aeglaecia 9mo ago

i dont see how saying "no politics" is similar to asking "why is there political messaging literally everywhere" , do you see how conflating the two is the exact behaviour that the original commenter was trying to discuss ?

idiotsecant 9mo ago
Choosing not to engage politically is not a neutral action. Life is politics. The world is full of people that are trying to control your life in a thousand different ways. Choosing to not engage in support or opposition to that control doesn't mean you aren't participating, it means your default position is letting them do what they want.
- davorak 9mo ago
  > Choosing to not engage in support or opposition I do not think it is uncommon for someone to do this, then see the side they oppose win more in elections, public perception, etc then decide to engage more and that is "why is there political messaging literally everywhere". Since we can't remove it, the next best alternative is to participate and advocate for responsible political engagement. I think until we have some shared understanding of what responsible political engagement is we will continue to have it everywhere.
- Aeglaecia 9mo ago
  the original commenter has explicitly stated willingness to engage politically , he has also stated this is not something he is willing to do when it is interrupting his seperate personal choices , concluding with an observation that others tend to conflate non-constant political will with a constant apolitical view. can you please explain how you are not conflating these two concepts ?
- iamnothere 9mo ago
  Is choosing to set certain parts of one’s life apart from politics equivalent to “choosing not to engage politically?” If so then shouldn’t every action that you take be imbued with politics, including the choice of how long you brush your teeth and when, where, and how you sleep? Or are certain things exempt from the rule, but not posting on HN? If that’s the case, why does posting on HN require political engagement but not, say, your interactions with the clerk at the grocery store? Are those of us who fail to inform every person we meet about our political views choosing not to engage politically? Even if we dedicate a certain portion of our lives to political engagement? Edit: I’ll also add that political messaging is highly contextual. What is appropriate and effective in one place may be counterproductive or actively harmful elsewhere. Format and tone actually matter if you care about your pet cause succeeding, believe it or not.

stirfish 9mo ago

Sometimes when the politics deeply affects you, you just need a little break from it.

LoganDark 9mo ago
You can't take a break from that. I have transgender friends who fear for their life every day. They don't know what is going to happen to their rights or their healthcare. I have diabetic friends who can't work and also fear for their life because losing Medicaid would mean they will stop being able to afford insulin and will die. This is what people mean when they talk about politics being important. It's not just things that don't affect you, which is what most people mean when they say they don't care about politics. As soon as something affects you, you will understand.
- jajuuka 9mo ago
  And if all you do all day is worry about someone else's or your own problems and politics you will not survive. Everyone has problems. Every single person has an issue that could cause them to die or a political event that could cause them harm. Your friends are not special or unique. There are billions of people who don't know if they will have food for their next meal, don't have money to pay rent, struggle with an addiction, etc. It's okay to watch a show about knights and demons and enjoy it. It's okay to use a piece of software that doesn't code every release as a protest against something. Instead of judging other people for not burning out, maybe take a break yourself. It's okay and normal.
- subsistence234 9mo ago
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NedF 9mo ago

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esperent 9mo ago

I partially agree, but as a non-US user of the English speaking internet, the issue is with specifically US politics and social issues being everywhere. It drowns out all attempts at discourse for anything else, and Americans, including people here, seem uniquely incapable of nuance in their thinking when it comes to politics. So, while I fully agree with your stance that banning political discourse is support for the status quo, I also think that it's reasonable to ask for it to be toned down a bit, especially when the politics and social issues of one country is basically drowning out everything else. All that said, I'm talking mostly about HN or other community forums here. The owner of Notepad++ has the right to put whatever they want into their software, and if we're discussing that here on HN then it's an occasion where discussing politics is valid.

shiroiuma 9mo ago
This is a good point. What would people think if there was constant political discussion here about, for instance, South Sudan and things happening there now? I'm sure there's bad stuff going on there and it's unfortunately, but if we had constant references to and discussions about the internal politics of South Sudan, I think a lot of people would get annoyed about issues that don't affect them at all in their day-to-day lives, esp. when they're coming here for discussions about technically- and computer-related topics. That must be how it seems for American political discussions.
- LoganDark 9mo ago
  Do you think it's socially acceptable to ignore everything that doesn't affect you personally? Many activists would certainly have you think otherwise. As far as I can tell, fighting that habit is a huge goal of activism.
  - FormerBandmate 9mo ago
    A huge chunk of activism is pointless and annoying. Especially when every cause is lumped together into Activism (TM) and the Omnicause. I don’t agree with them and I don’t think they should be in my software, or dealing with anything they don’t understand (for instance crime, homeless people, geopolitics, or really anything outside of overpriced vegan coffee shops). All they really do is end up getting Fox News people to vote for fascists like Trump out of spite

getnormality 9mo ago

Nah, it doesn't mean they support the status quo. It just means some political tactics are pointless, incompetent, and counterproductive. Political opinions about how things should be don't automatically dictate the actions that should be taken in support of those opinions. I can be mad about a law or a court decision and still have the good sense to, for example, not throw red paint on a lawmaker or judge. Some behaviors just aren't helpful, and neither being right nor being upset changes that.

popalchemist 9mo ago
It intrinsically does. Whatever stance changes nothing or prefers to change nothing is a vote for the status quo, by definition.
- defrost 9mo ago
  > Whatever stance changes nothing .. is a vote for the status quo, by definition. As problematic as the assertion "by definition" is aside, it should be noted that endlessly commenting about politics on internet forums effectively changes nothing. I've been kettled by mounted officers and hit by high pressure hoses on cold evenings, something that also rarely effects change .. but that's a least a fun night out with people and better than wasting bits on the intertubes.
  - popalchemist 9mo ago
    Whether it's a waste is not entirely up to you. There are plenty of people on this forum who are completely naive and live in a bubble. The chance that a comment they see her could make a lightbulb go off is non-zero. But if I were a nihilist I might agree with you.
    - defrost 9mo ago
      So write good comments, neutral in tone, avoid preaching, stick to the facts, gently emphasize how laws are being broken without an excess of righteuosness, see the people whose opinions you oppose and find common ground to pivot to your position, etc. When last we crossed you appeared to be lecturing people while incorrectly paraphrasing their actual position (aka strawmanning)( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46793399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46793399 ). FWiW I recall handing a guitar (I hear they kill facists) to Billy Bragg way back when he was on tour Talking to the Taxman About Poetry and FYI he's back, again, following Springsteen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOW2ZikGW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOW2ZikGW8 So, good luck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2QOwQdHL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2QOwQdHL8 Maybe sidestep becoming a parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1_uEbGJtnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1_uEbGJtnY

b65e8bee43c2ed0 9mo ago

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dymk 9mo ago
Ukraine and Taiwan are only relevant to Americans, right
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 9mo ago
  iirc, Notepad++'s "I support the current thing" was about Honk Kong, not Taiwan.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Hong Kong is only relevant to Americans, right...

joejoe638 9mo ago

This is about being productive and weighing the overall value of things. The politicisation of software is as harmful as requiring every research paper to be published with a political allegiance banner. Software like most Sciences, Engineering, and, Trade is a much longer game for humanity than politics de jour. It is easy to forget the extent of contributions from all sides of politics that has contributed to this trade, from Mohammed Algorithm to English, Russian, Chinese, and, everyone else to computing; but forgetting that and forging that for quick political hack points is a disservice to humanity.

pixl97 9mo ago
>Software like most Sciences, Engineering, and Trade are much longer game for humanity than politics de jour. Not really, software, like sciences and engineering must survive politics first. If humans start tossing around nukes like angry apes then those that survive may be scratching simple arithmetic with a charcoal stick on a cave wall.
- joejoe638 9mo ago
  This take is completely blind to how sciences has worked throughout history of humanity and specifically post major world wars. Additionally, it is based on a false notion that political banners in software helps in pursuing anyone let alone change political outcomes.
  - deathanatos 9mo ago
    Science has absolutely engaged in the politics du jour, including in major world wars. See, for example, the Szilárd petition[1]. (If you need a post-WWII example, those same scientists continued petitioning after the war on the dangers of nukes, too.) Further, political banners in software have absolute helped, and have changed political outcomes. As an example of that, SOPA, and later PIPA, were defeated by websites such as Wikipedia (which are software) putting banners aimed at informing the public of those bills. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szil%C3%A1rd_petition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szil%C3%A1rd_petition

gruez 9mo ago

>Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads, and I think the response is similar: Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view: One in support/service of whatever the current status quo is. Before I respond to your comment, allow me first to acknowledge the following injustices happening in the world: * war in gaza * war in ukraine * civil war in sudan * civil war in yemen * civil war in myanmar * ethnic violence in syria * insurgent attacks in nigeria * insurgent attacks in congo * attacks on protesters in Iran ... Wait, what's that? You don't want every comment to start with some sort of land acknowledgement-esque disclaimer of all injustices happening in the world? What are you, some sort of gaza war/ukraine war/sudanese civil war/ ... sympathizer? Tens, if not hundreds of millions have been affected by the event listed above, so at the very least you can spare a thought for them before discussing about some text editor getting compromised? You might argue acknowledging the war in gaza is beating a dead horse, but do you think the median HN reader has thought about the civil war in myanmar in the past month?

p_ing 9mo ago

> Similar comments also come up in the [now regular] "I don't want to see political articles on HN" threads In the context of forums, the political threads are generally /not interesting/[0]. Political threads often devolve; they bring nothing 'new' or 'fresh' to the table, and they lead absolutely no where. It's a fart-in-the-wind situation no matter what your position is. Leave that stuff on reddit where the rest of the farts-in-the-wind go to waste. It's like watching commentators on Fox News or CNN or <insert favorite cable TV show here>. They're a large waste of time and they're often geared towards re-enforcing your side, aka echo chamber. Now, if a thread actually evolved into real measurable action, that might actually be interesting. But that's not what happens on these forums. There's probably very few of us that see some HN thread talking about something awful happening somewhere and they take direct action, such as petitioning their government, protesting, etc. It's probably happened once or twice, but most of the farts in those threads just hang around and stink up the place. Please stop stinking up HN. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

NuclearPM 9mo ago

There’s a difference between arguing over the tax rate and ignoring fascism. At a certain point there is nothing more important than “politics”.

joejoe638 9mo ago
The issue with making something so universal as software, specifically scientific software political is that it operates in such a broad context that every political statement sooner or later will seem comical outside a very narrow scope. Your comment is a good example of it; who is dictator? The people who hacked the software or the political pole they support? At what point did they become fascist enough to warrant politicalisation of everything ?
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  If the main problem is that "sooner or later it will seem comical" I don't think this problem is severe enough to justify the number of words that have been written on HN about this topic.

eunos 9mo ago

> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view We are all Schmittian now

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chii 9mo ago

> One in support/service of whatever the current status quo is. Trying to set oneself apart from (or above) politics is itself political. apparently, it's OK to have this stance of "if you're not with us, you're against us". It's absolutely possible to not want political discussions in various places - it doesn't mean you support one or the other side. It simply means you don't want that discussion here. You could support the incumbents or not - not wanting the discussion does not imply support for the incumbents.

direwolf20 9mo ago
it's not the mere lack of being with, it's the enthusiastic, public advertisement that you are not with. If you are actually neither with nor against, then you don't have any need to say anything about the issue at all. If you make a big deal about not being with or against, most people who do that are against but don't want to say so.

tjwebbnorfolk 9mo ago

Not wanting politics crammed into every nook and cranny of daily life is not a "political" view of one kind or another, it's a preference for how I want to consume information and interact with people. There is such a thing as being able to act and think in ways that aren't political in nature. Maybe not for you, but it absolutely is possible.

anonymous908213 9mo ago
Way to completely and totally miss the point. I don't actually think you could've missed the point any harder than you did. Politics are quite literally life-or-death for many people. War is politics. Access to healthcare is politics. Economic policy that determines whether businesses and careers succeed or fail is politics. Freedom to say what you want, believe or not believe in whatever religion you want, and be who you are without being imprisoned is politics. The people who make the most noise about politics are the people who are literally dying for as long as the rest of society ignores their plight. If this isn't the case for you, it's because you benefit from the status quo. It is the definition of privilege to be able to "ignore politics". That means you are currently benefitting from politics. Of course you don't want to hear about politics, politics are doing just fine for you. And the comment you were asking to was asking you to reflect on that: if the biggest problem gracing you is hearing other people make noise about circumstances, the least you could do is deal with it. Your problems are trivial if that is what gets you upset. Other people are complaining about things that affect the outcome of their lives and you're complaining about... having to hear it.
- tjwebbnorfolk 9mo ago
  That you seem to believe politics exists to solve people's problems is probably the reason you feel it is so important. I'm sorry that you are so profoundly confused.
  - anonymous908213 9mo ago
    Oh, you're one of those bootstrappy libertarians, I'm taking it. Everything you've ever done is by your own two merits, right? Nevermind the fact that you take society's roads and use society's technology, which are the results of politics. You drink society's water and eat society's food, which are the results of politics. You enjoy the security of not being invaded by enemy tribes nor your neighbors, which are the results of politics. "Politics" is simply a word describing how humans act in groups. Given that how we act in groups determines the entirety of our lives, there is no separating anything from politics. You seem to have taken my comment as "the government is responsible for solving people's problems", but politics are just as much about dealing with the problems it creates. When politics are going well you can ignore it; when they are going poorly they can end your life so you make a lot of noise about it to get other people to try to care. In either case, though, your life is entirely the result of political forces unless you're living in the jungle completely detached from society.

mshroyer 9mo ago

> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view No, it explicitly is not, and this "deepity" doesn't change any rational analysis. The injection of politics into every aspect of society must and should be refused.

direwolf20 9mo ago
Can you name some aspects of society that are non–political? I can't think of many. Maybe the frequency spectrum of sunlight?
- hnuser123456 9mo ago
  Politics is more of a way of thinking and speaking than about any specific topic. For those of us who see a lot of problems with society but know that things will never be how they "should be", it is healthy to limit amount of time spent thinking about problems that cannot and will not be solved.
- akimbostrawman 9mo ago
  please tell me about the intricate politics of a phone booth. just because you can make everything political doesn't mean it is inherently political or doesn't make you look like a terminal online annoying loser when you try to compensate for your vapid personality outside of ideological dogma.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Phone booths are made by the phone company to increase the money they make, that's political. Phone booths are made with more or less shielding implying a greater or lesser danger to their occupant, that's politics. The ones at the airport have glass dividers while the ones at the lonely gas station at night are fully enclosed with thick glass. Different ones have different amounts of graffiti and different likelihood of being vandalised at any given time. You will find this correlates with demographics. Phone booths have disappeared as we all got portable phones in our pockets, but those phones also track us and some people might prefer the relative privacy of an impersonal phone booth, but can't because they no longer exist.

appreciatorBus 9mo ago

Not wanting politics on HN, need not imply support of the status quo, or even a lack of interest in politics. It can simply be a different belief about the purpose of online forums. I read about politics all day long in many different places. My belief that HN should be relatively free of such stories is not because I believe I can detach myself from politics, but because I believe topic based forums are more valuable and useful than “anything goes” forums.

stackbutterflow 9mo ago
Allowing politics on HN doesn't mean discussing politics in every thread. If it's a story about someone who improved performance of their system by using Rust then sure there's no need to bring anything political. But threads about Nvidia, Tesla, encryption, internet blackouts, social media, startups investments, etc, all warrants political discourse.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  The use of Rust is already political!
- appreciatorBus 9mo ago
  I wish that were true, but in my experience so far, it isn’t. Not only does politics and general stories crowd out everything else over time on other sites, there are HN submitters who seem to be trying to accelerate this. During the war, when HN was getting Israel-Palestine stories constantly, I started looking at the submission history of some of the submitters, and some of them were just pushing these types of stories every day for months and months. So yes, I think allowing politics will eventually mean being dominated by politics and general interest.
  - alighter 9mo ago
    Globalizing the intifada means pushing an agenda everywhere, including on HN, on posts where it is relevant and on posts where some obscure or conspiratorial connection can be made. If HN is going to allow accusations to be slung against groups of people it has to allow others to respond, and that sets off endless debate amongst people who will not be changing their minds on the matter but will repeat the same argument on the next post.

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teo_zero 9mo ago

> Asking for "no politics" is itself a strong political view If this is true, I'd like to know what a weak political view is instead!

direwolf20 9mo ago
"I think taxes should be 2% higher"

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illiac786 9mo ago

Fully agree, it’s akin to atheists, they very often are convinced they are not religious. Agnostics are the unreligious ones. In fact, atheists are the most fanatical zealots in my friends circle.

GaryBluto 9mo ago

I'm tired of this. I look anywhere, I see politics. At the end of the day all this does is alienate me from anything that isn't the status quo anywhere, because all I see of the opposition of it is constant incessant whining and the prevention of my relaxation. It's a selfish view but I don't care.

expedition32 9mo ago

I always imagine how long one can keep ignoring politics? When they bust down your door and put you in the black van? They are making a mistake I was never political!

illusive4080 9mo ago

I disagree. I want to separate my technology from politics. I consume politics through other venues. I don’t want HN full of political articles. It doesn’t mean I support status quo. It means I don’t want this one website pushing politics, which it increasingly does. HN discussions are usually very high quality and respectful disagreement therein, which is unique online nowadays. I’ve come here to escape Reddit, which is all politics all the time. If this place turns as political as Reddit, I’m out.

hulitu 9mo ago

> Trying to set oneself apart from (or above) politics is itself political. we are just sick of propaganda. And of pissing contests. And of "mine is longer than yours" content.