6 ms·

America First Risks Becoming America Alone

39 points by petethomas 9mo ago

angst 9mo ago
https://archive.md/lcy7E https://archive.md/lcy7E
nixass 9mo ago
FAFO
- defrost 9mo ago
  The Fight Against Federal Overreach? * https://www.courthousenews.com/top-city-prosecutors-form-fafo-coalition-to-bring-charges-against-federal-agents/ https://www.courthousenews.com/top-city-prosecutors-form-faf... The US are having their split from the world, cleaved from within moment; all driven by a nominal desire to be great again. Future history lessons on these moments in time will be interesting.
  - InMice 9mo ago
    f*ck around and find out is my assumption of what they meant.
    - defrost 9mo ago
      Mine also - worthy of note is currently those ouside the US are responding to US actions with FAFO, at the same time those within the US are responding to Federal overreach with the same attitude, hence the repurposing of the FLA (Four Letter Acronym).
      - nicbou 9mo ago
        What do you mean, concretely? It seems to me like other countries are cautiously responding to threats of invasion and sudden tariffs. They did not wake up one day and randomly decided to divest from the United States. The government overreach part I cannot comment on. From my limited point of view I see ICE and overturning Roe vs Wade, but I don't pay attention to US domestic politics.
        defrost 9mo ago
        > What do you mean, concretely? I refer to two things: * Internal to the US citizens are responding FAFO to the US Federal governments recent actions against specific states, and secondly to * the "FAFO" comment made by @nixass above who appears to be European (by an extremely brief glance at comment history made once two hours ago). I assume that comment refers to many countries now exploring other options for trade in response to the US actions since January 2025. Other allied relationships are also morphing in the face of the US no longer being seen as a reliable stable partner.
        nicbou 9mo ago
        Oh that makes a lot more sense. My initial read was almost the polar opposite of this.
silisili 9mo ago
That was pretty much always the point of America First. Put on your own mask before assisting others. Unfortunately, the US has so many current problems it needs to work out that America First means America Alone until then. Unfortunately, I don't envision any of said problems being solved in any way.
- surgical_fire 9mo ago
  There is no "until then". When "then" comes, the world will have moved on.
- watwut 9mo ago
  This is not true. America first is not focusing on self, it is going out if its way to harm democracies out of it and create white ethnostate inside.
- wewxjfq 9mo ago
  I don't see any problem-solving being done, I only see the US dismantling the world it created, where - let's not kid ourselves - America always came first. The problems the US faces would be better solved with international cooperation, but the US is flushing its softpower down the toilet and destroying all goodwill amongst its allies.
  - silisili 9mo ago
    I agree 100%. That is the reality of what is happening, but is a disconnect between what people thought/hoped it meant vs what is actually happening. From what I could tell, -most- America First proponents just got mad that the country was sending/spending money abroad while our own veterans/homeless/sick suffered. Some thought it reasonable to give up being the world police if it meant fixing issues at home. I think both are a fairly reasonable ask/thought. The problem of course is that there seems to be zero movement in fixing anything people were complaining about. That said, it's a policy also historically used by racists and ultra nationalists, so it muddies the waters a lot. But I also have trouble believing the majority of the 67% of Americans who supported the idea fall into either of those camps.
georgeecollins 9mo ago
My whole professional life I have lived in a world where business was done in most of the world-- more or less-- according to American rules of law and trade. I have benefitted enormously from being able to buy things from all over the world when they are cheaper and sell the things I make to most of the world. I have family members who think America should be first. They love it when the US snubs other countries. In general they are people who are retired, work for the state or local government, or don't do things that generate much wealth. So they are really oblivious to how the world order has benefited their country. But maybe that is because I benefited and they didn't.
- trhway 9mo ago
  > America should be first America had been first all the time since at least 1945 while driving the globalizaton. What can be more "first" than extracting all possible kinds of value - cheap labor, educated immigrants, mineral resources, transaction fee from whatever goes through the financial networks, profit from the global trade flow, etc. - from the rest of the world? >But maybe that is because I benefited and they didn't. "didn't"? Having one of the best retirements in the world immediately comes to mind. MAGA is about mythically great 50s or 60s i guess. Back then the technological complexity of the time allowed to have "in-house" all the technologies needed to build even most complex products. Today the "house of 340 million" is too small to fit all the tech needed for even moderately complex modern products. The tech pyramid became much higher and has much wider foundation. As a result, tariffs hit most strongly the domestic manufacturing which needs all those imported components/materials.
  - pseudohadamard 9mo ago
    >MAGA is about mythically great 50s or 60s i guess. No, it's not, and that's what makes it so powerful. Everyone gets to decide for themselves when America was great. For some it's before the Civil War, when the darkies were working in the fields picking cotton and knew their place. For others it's the 1940s when the US was kicking ass in Europe and the Pacific and other countries knew their place. For some it's the 1950s when women were barefoot and pregnant and also knew their place... you can probably see a bit of theme here. In any case everyone gets to choose their own imagined golden time when A was G, typically at the expense of others (women, African-americans, minorities, other countries, ...). And you can even see which era the different groups prefer, e.g. the tradwives want to be back in the 1950s when women were unpaid domestic servants, etc.
aebtebeten 9mo ago
Back during the first "America First", there was a series of satire videos titled "America First ${COUNTRY} Second". They're somewhat dated now, but still informative if you're curious about the rest of the world. "Netherlands Second" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE was I believe the first second, but not only other european countries but many others globally (as well as a few regions and fictional countries) eventually produced one, easily found on YT.
- gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
  Pedantry: not just the Spaniards.. they made the English pay too? https://news.yale.edu/2015/09/22/living-artifact-dutch-golden-age-yale-s-367-year-old-water-bond-still-pays-interest https://news.yale.edu/2015/09/22/living-artifact-dutch-golde... America first. Because she's naturally exceptional at everything-- America is exceptionally unexceptional!! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46826867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46826867 (I would add that the Dutch come really close, but are not nearly as tolerant of.. a certain sort of (individualist) bigot, so that makes them second in that particular ("Calvinist"*?) arena :) *GoogAI tells you to look at the history of Geneva and Puritan New England, if you need closer refs..
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    I love clipping coupons! (before clicking, I had been predicting something about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England , but it looks like his wife got him the job: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_and_British_line_of_succession#James_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_and_Bri... ) Yeah, the way I heard the story is the dutch were too tolerant: the Puritans couldn't stand the idea of their kids growing up with such examples around, so they upped sticks and headed off to wander in the wilderness...
    - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
      Tin-free take on JFK assassination: Years later, that was reflected in the failure of New Englishmen to sync with the rest of the country (But the success of old-English women in syncing with... https://youtube.com/shorts/4H-bmxbi_JM https://youtube.com/shorts/4H-bmxbi_JM https://youtu.be/5MLuDpfTLBE https://youtu.be/5MLuDpfTLBE ?)
supriyo-biswas 9mo ago
https://archive.is/lcy7E https://archive.is/lcy7E

39 points by petethomas 9mo ago

angst 9mo ago

https://archive.md/lcy7E https://archive.md/lcy7E

nixass 9mo ago

FAFO

defrost 9mo ago
The Fight Against Federal Overreach? * https://www.courthousenews.com/top-city-prosecutors-form-fafo-coalition-to-bring-charges-against-federal-agents/ https://www.courthousenews.com/top-city-prosecutors-form-faf... The US are having their split from the world, cleaved from within moment; all driven by a nominal desire to be great again. Future history lessons on these moments in time will be interesting.
- InMice 9mo ago
  f*ck around and find out is my assumption of what they meant.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    Mine also - worthy of note is currently those ouside the US are responding to US actions with FAFO, at the same time those within the US are responding to Federal overreach with the same attitude, hence the repurposing of the FLA (Four Letter Acronym).
    - nicbou 9mo ago
      What do you mean, concretely? It seems to me like other countries are cautiously responding to threats of invasion and sudden tariffs. They did not wake up one day and randomly decided to divest from the United States. The government overreach part I cannot comment on. From my limited point of view I see ICE and overturning Roe vs Wade, but I don't pay attention to US domestic politics.
      - defrost 9mo ago
        > What do you mean, concretely? I refer to two things: * Internal to the US citizens are responding FAFO to the US Federal governments recent actions against specific states, and secondly to * the "FAFO" comment made by @nixass above who appears to be European (by an extremely brief glance at comment history made once two hours ago). I assume that comment refers to many countries now exploring other options for trade in response to the US actions since January 2025. Other allied relationships are also morphing in the face of the US no longer being seen as a reliable stable partner.
        nicbou 9mo ago
        Oh that makes a lot more sense. My initial read was almost the polar opposite of this.

silisili 9mo ago

That was pretty much always the point of America First. Put on your own mask before assisting others. Unfortunately, the US has so many current problems it needs to work out that America First means America Alone until then. Unfortunately, I don't envision any of said problems being solved in any way.

surgical_fire 9mo ago
There is no "until then". When "then" comes, the world will have moved on.
watwut 9mo ago
This is not true. America first is not focusing on self, it is going out if its way to harm democracies out of it and create white ethnostate inside.
wewxjfq 9mo ago
I don't see any problem-solving being done, I only see the US dismantling the world it created, where - let's not kid ourselves - America always came first. The problems the US faces would be better solved with international cooperation, but the US is flushing its softpower down the toilet and destroying all goodwill amongst its allies.
- silisili 9mo ago
  I agree 100%. That is the reality of what is happening, but is a disconnect between what people thought/hoped it meant vs what is actually happening. From what I could tell, -most- America First proponents just got mad that the country was sending/spending money abroad while our own veterans/homeless/sick suffered. Some thought it reasonable to give up being the world police if it meant fixing issues at home. I think both are a fairly reasonable ask/thought. The problem of course is that there seems to be zero movement in fixing anything people were complaining about. That said, it's a policy also historically used by racists and ultra nationalists, so it muddies the waters a lot. But I also have trouble believing the majority of the 67% of Americans who supported the idea fall into either of those camps.

georgeecollins 9mo ago

My whole professional life I have lived in a world where business was done in most of the world-- more or less-- according to American rules of law and trade. I have benefitted enormously from being able to buy things from all over the world when they are cheaper and sell the things I make to most of the world. I have family members who think America should be first. They love it when the US snubs other countries. In general they are people who are retired, work for the state or local government, or don't do things that generate much wealth. So they are really oblivious to how the world order has benefited their country. But maybe that is because I benefited and they didn't.

trhway 9mo ago
> America should be first America had been first all the time since at least 1945 while driving the globalizaton. What can be more "first" than extracting all possible kinds of value - cheap labor, educated immigrants, mineral resources, transaction fee from whatever goes through the financial networks, profit from the global trade flow, etc. - from the rest of the world? >But maybe that is because I benefited and they didn't. "didn't"? Having one of the best retirements in the world immediately comes to mind. MAGA is about mythically great 50s or 60s i guess. Back then the technological complexity of the time allowed to have "in-house" all the technologies needed to build even most complex products. Today the "house of 340 million" is too small to fit all the tech needed for even moderately complex modern products. The tech pyramid became much higher and has much wider foundation. As a result, tariffs hit most strongly the domestic manufacturing which needs all those imported components/materials.
- pseudohadamard 9mo ago
  >MAGA is about mythically great 50s or 60s i guess. No, it's not, and that's what makes it so powerful. Everyone gets to decide for themselves when America was great. For some it's before the Civil War, when the darkies were working in the fields picking cotton and knew their place. For others it's the 1940s when the US was kicking ass in Europe and the Pacific and other countries knew their place. For some it's the 1950s when women were barefoot and pregnant and also knew their place... you can probably see a bit of theme here. In any case everyone gets to choose their own imagined golden time when A was G, typically at the expense of others (women, African-americans, minorities, other countries, ...). And you can even see which era the different groups prefer, e.g. the tradwives want to be back in the 1950s when women were unpaid domestic servants, etc.

aebtebeten 9mo ago

Back during the first "America First", there was a series of satire videos titled "America First ${COUNTRY} Second". They're somewhat dated now, but still informative if you're curious about the rest of the world. "Netherlands Second" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE was I believe the first second, but not only other european countries but many others globally (as well as a few regions and fictional countries) eventually produced one, easily found on YT.

gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
Pedantry: not just the Spaniards.. they made the English pay too? https://news.yale.edu/2015/09/22/living-artifact-dutch-golden-age-yale-s-367-year-old-water-bond-still-pays-interest https://news.yale.edu/2015/09/22/living-artifact-dutch-golde... America first. Because she's naturally exceptional at everything-- America is exceptionally unexceptional!! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46826867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46826867 (I would add that the Dutch come really close, but are not nearly as tolerant of.. a certain sort of (individualist) bigot, so that makes them second in that particular ("Calvinist"*?) arena :) *GoogAI tells you to look at the history of Geneva and Puritan New England, if you need closer refs..
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  I love clipping coupons! (before clicking, I had been predicting something about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England , but it looks like his wife got him the job: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_and_British_line_of_succession#James_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_and_Bri... ) Yeah, the way I heard the story is the dutch were too tolerant: the Puritans couldn't stand the idea of their kids growing up with such examples around, so they upped sticks and headed off to wander in the wilderness...
  - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
    Tin-free take on JFK assassination: Years later, that was reflected in the failure of New Englishmen to sync with the rest of the country (But the success of old-English women in syncing with... https://youtube.com/shorts/4H-bmxbi_JM https://youtube.com/shorts/4H-bmxbi_JM https://youtu.be/5MLuDpfTLBE https://youtu.be/5MLuDpfTLBE ?)

supriyo-biswas 9mo ago

https://archive.is/lcy7E https://archive.is/lcy7E