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People buy new cars (~10m/year in US) and when they are at that decision point, follow this algorithm. 1) Is there any way you can walk instead? 2) Can you bi

People buy new cars (~10m/year in US) and when they are at that decision point, follow this algorithm. 1) Is there any way you can walk instead? 2) Can you bike? 3) Can you use an e-bike? 4) Can you use public transportation? 5) Can you move to a place where 1-4 are doable? 6) If none of the 4 above work, are you a 2 car family (most are), then one of the cars can be EV. While you have a gas car for longer trips, most likely a minivan. 7) Can you buy a used EV? (which is already manufactured!) 8) Can you buy a used plug-in hybrid? A plug-in hybrid can be 99% electric miles, most trips are short. 9) Can you buy a new EV? 10) Can you buy a new plug-in hybrid? 11) Can you buy a used gas car? A 2023 manufactured used gas car is identical to 2024, the delta of new features is negligible (maybe new colors?).

PunchyHamster 9mo ago
That's nonsense. No significant amount of people goes "maybe I should move instead of buying a new care". People get car coz they don't want to be cold (and especially in northen countries) when going to work
- thelastgallon 9mo ago
  You have no idea what you are talking about. Significant number of people take public transit (Moscow, NYC, Chicago -- lots of other cities) when its available. When you build an environment for cars and cars only, force everyone to buy cars, they have no choice but to buy car. Lots of European counties have been building biking infrastructure. They are all Northern countries.
teunispeters 9mo ago
I am in the prairies of Canada: 1) -20c weather or colder - not really 2) no, see previous. Bikes don't handle snow. 3) no, see previous. 4) no, unsafe. (this is a me problem. Until people stop smoking on or near public transit, it remains unsafe for me) 5) no, this is a really REALLY rude question. Part of it is city design prioritizing suburbs, but part of it is that the moving has a very high cost, and only increasing as property / rent prices continue to skyrocket. Mind, that's mostly a Canadian problem.... 6) An interesting question. This one works. 7) Not really, infrastructure isn't much present yet for used EVs. Mind, it's possible, just not easy to find. 8) same as previous 9) Not easily, prices are much too high. This may change with introduction of Chinese EVs though. 10) same as previous 11) MUCH easier than other options. In some parts, going back as far as 100 years is doable in getting a car. So we - when we finally needed a second car - went 11. Moving is out (cost of moving is comparable to buying a new car), and a new car is expensive enough that the cost is too high to carry. But then, we are not wealthy either, and I have no idea who can afford to buy that many new cars, but it ain't most people I've met or worked with. I see cars - like public transit in far too many cities in Canada - as pricing itself out of usability.
- matsemann 9mo ago
  I bike year around in Norway. On most snow days I blast past car traffic. Cars can't handle at all if it's not plowed.
  - teunispeters 9mo ago
    Norway is a LOT warmer than prairie Canada. You want an equivalent, go maybe 600km north. heh. (not entirely a joke. Mind as far as I can tell, typical North Pole weather is also warmer than Saskatchewan winters, so ... weather is weird) I know the Antarctic is typically a lot colder, though.
    - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
      Canada is more like northeast China which is like -20 C right now, but can get down to -40 C. They still are moving to EVs though.
      - teunispeters 9mo ago
        Siberia is a FAR better comparison than China. Among many other reasons, most of the prairies are similarly arid, and temperatures are definitely similar. Similar range of climates too (Siberia's got people a lot more spread out though).
        seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
        Harbin is north of Vladivostok you know? But yah, Yakutsk is where you can’t turn your car off in the winter (well, they have auto start and stop now to keep the engine from freezing, no power outlets like in Fairbanks for block heaters) and often have to encase the whole car in a warming sock (which is exactly how you imagine it). Yakutsk is east of Siberia in the Saka republic though, the closest comparable city in Siberia is Norilsk (not as cold or populous as Yakutsk).
        9mo ago

PunchyHamster 9mo ago

That's nonsense. No significant amount of people goes "maybe I should move instead of buying a new care". People get car coz they don't want to be cold (and especially in northen countries) when going to work

thelastgallon 9mo ago
You have no idea what you are talking about. Significant number of people take public transit (Moscow, NYC, Chicago -- lots of other cities) when its available. When you build an environment for cars and cars only, force everyone to buy cars, they have no choice but to buy car. Lots of European counties have been building biking infrastructure. They are all Northern countries.

teunispeters 9mo ago

I am in the prairies of Canada: 1) -20c weather or colder - not really 2) no, see previous. Bikes don't handle snow. 3) no, see previous. 4) no, unsafe. (this is a me problem. Until people stop smoking on or near public transit, it remains unsafe for me) 5) no, this is a really REALLY rude question. Part of it is city design prioritizing suburbs, but part of it is that the moving has a very high cost, and only increasing as property / rent prices continue to skyrocket. Mind, that's mostly a Canadian problem.... 6) An interesting question. This one works. 7) Not really, infrastructure isn't much present yet for used EVs. Mind, it's possible, just not easy to find. 8) same as previous 9) Not easily, prices are much too high. This may change with introduction of Chinese EVs though. 10) same as previous 11) MUCH easier than other options. In some parts, going back as far as 100 years is doable in getting a car. So we - when we finally needed a second car - went 11. Moving is out (cost of moving is comparable to buying a new car), and a new car is expensive enough that the cost is too high to carry. But then, we are not wealthy either, and I have no idea who can afford to buy that many new cars, but it ain't most people I've met or worked with. I see cars - like public transit in far too many cities in Canada - as pricing itself out of usability.

matsemann 9mo ago
I bike year around in Norway. On most snow days I blast past car traffic. Cars can't handle at all if it's not plowed.
- teunispeters 9mo ago
  Norway is a LOT warmer than prairie Canada. You want an equivalent, go maybe 600km north. heh. (not entirely a joke. Mind as far as I can tell, typical North Pole weather is also warmer than Saskatchewan winters, so ... weather is weird) I know the Antarctic is typically a lot colder, though.
  - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
    Canada is more like northeast China which is like -20 C right now, but can get down to -40 C. They still are moving to EVs though.
    - teunispeters 9mo ago
      Siberia is a FAR better comparison than China. Among many other reasons, most of the prairies are similarly arid, and temperatures are definitely similar. Similar range of climates too (Siberia's got people a lot more spread out though).
      - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
        Harbin is north of Vladivostok you know? But yah, Yakutsk is where you can’t turn your car off in the winter (well, they have auto start and stop now to keep the engine from freezing, no power outlets like in Fairbanks for block heaters) and often have to encase the whole car in a warming sock (which is exactly how you imagine it). Yakutsk is east of Siberia in the Saka republic though, the closest comparable city in Siberia is Norilsk (not as cold or populous as Yakutsk).
        9mo ago