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TÜV Report 2026: Tesla Model Y has the worst reliability of all 2022–2023 cars (2025)

181 points by Archelaos 9mo ago

lm2s 9mo ago
In what world is this "The 2026 TUV Report doesn't mention which defects were responsible for the Model Y's disappointing performance." acceptable? Why are they not publishing which defects exist? Not only it make more credible, it would also warn people of what to look for.
- elaus 9mo ago
  TÜV is the mandatory inspection that every car in Germany has to go through. Failing that inspection means you _have_ to fix the issues or may no longer drive that car on public roads. So while it would be nice to get more detailled stats, I think this is still really helpful. For me the TÜV report was a very important source for my decission on which models (and to a lesser degree manufacturers) I should avoid.
  - kiney 9mo ago
    There are more accredited inspection providers besides TüV in germany like Dekra etc. This matters because TüV does NOT have data for all cars and there might be self selection effects because drivers can choose where to do the inspection (many get it done by whatever provider their car dealer has a deal with, which might differ greatly by car brand)
    - thyristan 9mo ago
      TÜV is the largest such organisation in Germany and almost has a monopoly. The inspections themselves are colloquially even called "TÜV", even if you do it at some other org. However, as others have written, there is still some huge bias in those numbers. Especially German brand car shops provide an inspection service, where they pre-check and repair the car before the official inspection. Many of those German brands are also very big on company leasing, to the point where almost nobody buys a new BMW, Mercedes or Audi privately, they either get a new one as a company car via company leasing, or they get a used leasing return car. All those leasing cars always have the aforementioned inspection service as part of the leasing package. So those numbers are to be taken with a huge huge grain of salt.
      - kiney 9mo ago
        First of all TÜV isn't a single org but a shared brand of multiple independent companies. And while "TÜV" is used colloquially for the mandatory car inspection in germany even all TÜV named companies together aren't anywhere near a monopoly: all of them combined(!) have 37,5% market share in the german vehicle inspection market. The largest single org in that market is actually DEKRA with 32,5%. People say "Ich bring mein Auto zum TÜV", but they actually mean "I'm gonna drop it at my dealership and let him inspect it by whatever company he has a deal with" src: https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Fahrzeuguntersuchungen/_fahrzeuguntersuchungen_node.html https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Fahrzeuguntersuchu...
- kotaKat 9mo ago
  “The Tesla 3 and Y are not so fortunate, landing in second to last and last place respectively due to faults in their brake disks and axle suspension.” https://www.tuvsud.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025/november/used-e-vehicles-are-keeping-up-where-safety-is-concerned https://www.tuvsud.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025/novem... Just… I don’t know, actually look at your wheels and brakes every few thousand miles instead of let them ride for tens of thousands without service? Shouldn’t people be rotating their tires every 3-5000 miles anyways?
  - loloquwowndueo 9mo ago
    What if the fault results in a failure after 800 miles? How does checking every few thousand help there?
  - haspok 9mo ago
    But hey, these are electric cars which don't need regular service!... ...at least that is how they are sold. And people take it seriously.
    - orwin 9mo ago
      They cost less to service on average, which is true (at least in my country, Americans are weird with their cars and dealerships).
  - otherme123 9mo ago
    Tires are not mentioned here. You could rotate them every 10 miles and still have faulty brake disks and axle suspensions. - Brake disks are not a regular maintenance piece. Brake pads are the pieces that need replacement every 30.000 kilometers, depending on how hard you use them. But brake disks can outlast the car. - Axle suspension is also not regular maintenance piece. Damper, bushings and springs need supervision and get changed every 80.000 kilometers or so. But to change an axle suspension without a serious hit to the car is very weird. Unless you are using brake disks and an axle suspension designed for a 1,000 kg lighter car. In that case, you might end with twisted or broken pieces after a few thousand kilometers.
  - 9mo ago
- ActorNightly 9mo ago
  Do you really need any more reasons not to buy a Tesla?
- Hamuko 9mo ago
  Typically Teslas have failed for suspension issues in Finnish inspections. Most common failure category for Model 3 was "rear axle" and "front axle" for Model S. https://yle.fi/a/74-20184982 https://yle.fi/a/74-20184982
- josefx 9mo ago
  They are citing a blog post from the German magazine Auto Bild, which talks about the Auto Bild special "TÜV Report" edition. They are probably three or four layers of indirection removed from the original report produced by the TÜV itself. I found a mention of the report on this page from the ADAC: https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2026/ https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2026/ I think they mention suspension, brake and light related issues.
- bborud 9mo ago
  This is an article that summarizes a report. It is not the report. The actual report costs money (but isn't very expensive). If you live in Europe your car has to be inspected every 2 years. For new cars this kicks in after 3 years, and then after that it is every 2 years. The inspection is carried out by authorized mechanics and typically takes less than an hour. It is worth noting that authorities keep a close eye on authorized mechanics to ensure they do not cheat. If you cheat (eg let people pay you to pass their car), you lose authorization. The reason the TÜV report carries weight is that Germany has Europe’s largest vehicle fleet and TÜV has a strong reputation. Inspection standards are largely harmonized across Europe, and approvals or methodologies used by TÜV are often accepted or mirrored elsewhere. Defects are classified by severity. Serious defects can make the vehicle unroadworthy immediately; less serious ones require repair and re-inspection; very minor issues are simply noted. Even non-EU countries like Norway and the UK follow essentially the same inspection framework.
  - ckdarby 9mo ago
    Does this put Germany's car insurance in the lowest cost?
    - bborud 9mo ago
      On average car insurance is cheaper in Germany, but I am unsure if this has anything to do with the required inspections. (Since it is mandatory anyway, it isn't a differentiator). I think it may be more about how insurance is structured and dealt with. For instance US has a civil tort based system which tends to push prices up quite a bit because outcomes are entirely unpredictable. In Germany insurance is not litigation centric, so there are literally no punitive damages, pain-and-suffering awards are modest and predictable and compensation is based on standardized tables. So insurance cases very rarely make it anywhere near courts.
    - thyristan 9mo ago
      Car insurance in Germany exists in 3 categories. The mandatory one, liability insurance, which pays out others' damages in case your car is in an accident and the driver of your car is found to be at fault. Base rates for those are by law based on the rate of payouts per car model and per owner's county at that insurance company. A multiplier makes the base rate more expensive or cheaper respectively for new drivers, accident-prone drivers or long-time accident-free drivers. No other external statistics are allowed to play a role. The two non-mandatory ones are "Vollkasko" and "Teilkasko", which pay for damages your own car suffered from various factors like animals, weather, accidents, road conditions and stuff like that. Vollkasko even pays for accidents you caused yourself, Teilkasko only for some of the aforementioned things. In both, insurers are still required to do some classification by county, but they are allowed to factor in statistics about your car's repair cost. But none of those will pay for your car just randomly breaking down and needing repairs, that is something you get a manufacturer's warranty for. And none of those is directly related to the mandatory inspections. I think I've read some statistics that driver behaviour and skill is also a large factor in why there are less accidents in Germany, at least compared to some regions of the world... But make of those what you will, that might as well be jingoism and often also comparing apples and oranges...
kotaKat 9mo ago
Is this once again because electric vehicles don’t get pulled into a mechanics shop every 10,000 miles for their oil to be changed and coincidentally inspected at the same time for mechanical defects that could be caught before they get pulled into a TUV annual inspection? Hrm, I wonder.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- gpjanik 9mo ago
  Other EVs are incomparably better though.
  - apelapan 9mo ago
    Other EV:s have service inspections as part of the warranty requirements. That means they get inspected by workshops, which means that problems are more likely to be first found during the government inspection. I don't think the actual quality difference under Equal conditions is a large as the TUV report suggests.
- edarchis 9mo ago
  This is the problem with this report. It doesn't mean that the cars break down more often, it means that they are so rarely at the shop that the drivers don't notice the used brake pads, tires etc.
  - gspr 9mo ago
    > This is the problem with this report. It doesn't mean that the cars break down more often, it means that they are so rarely at the shop that the drivers don't notice the used brake pads, tires etc. The average European drives about 12,000 km (~7500 miles) per year [1]. The maximum inspection period allowed by the EU for most personal cars is 2 years [2]. The average person in the US drives about 13,400 miles (~ 21,500 km) per year [3]. So, roughly, the average European vehicle is inspected after a driving distance which is about the same as that which the average US vehicle puts behind it in a year. I thus doubt that the Tesla numbers from the article are greatly affected by a lack of inspections. [1] https://www.acea.auto/fact/fact-sheet-cars/ https://www.acea.auto/fact/fact-sheet-cars/ [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2014/45/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2014/45/oj/eng (chapter III, article 5, point 1). [3] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm
rob74 9mo ago
Props for including the "Ü" in the title - although they somehow dropped it in the article text...
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- matsemann 9mo ago
  I have one in my name, and living in Norway I would've thought we were better at handling "special" characters in names, given that people here are named Bjørn and Åse and Kjærsti. Like, old legacy systems often handle those names, and I would assume they then used Latin-1 (ISO 8859-1) which have æøå and also ü. But for some reason my name has been stuck in loads of systems growing up. Things like porting my phone number not working because the system borked on my name. Or not being able to order something because the system asking for a credit report then jumbled my name so they got nothing in return. Or just because "name doesn't match the one on the card", but it's a system along the way stripping my name. Sigh.
theyneverlear 9mo ago
[flagged]
wg0 9mo ago
This is EU's fault because they have democracy and other liberal bullshit, pure woke propaganda. ~ Lord of the Lithium.
thelastgallon 9mo ago
Can't Musk 'encourage' Germany and EU democracies to vote for the right people and take over a wrecking ball to all these agencies causing mischief to his many and varied businesses? I'm sure there are politicians who need a couple of hundred dollars.
- sschueller 9mo ago
  One does not mess with the TÜV, it won't end well. Even in Turkey where they introduced TÜVTÜRK to get Turkey closer to EU regulations.
hobofan 9mo ago
This is from November 2025. I suspect it was reposted due to the news[0] of Tesla discontinuing their other models and the Model Y being one of the remaining two (besides the Model 3). [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46802867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46802867
- varjag 9mo ago
  Even that's a generous reading, given that Y and 3 are essentially the same car.
- ChrisArchitect 9mo ago
  Some discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456
adamtulinius 9mo ago
This mimics numbers from Denmark, where Model 3 had a failure rate of 20-25% after four years a couple of years ago, and last year the first Model Y's had to go through their first 4 year inspection and 45% failed. 34% of Model 3's failed last year. For comparison: Last year VW ID4 had a failure rate of 2%, and the average for _all_ electric cars (no matter age, including Teslas) was 7% failure. Causes: Breaks, wheels, steering, and a few more critical things along those lines. Objectively speaking, Tesla cannot manufacture cars that live up to European standards. Source: https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandalen-fortsaetter-naesten-hver-anden-tesla-model-y-dumper-til-syn https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandale...
- varjag 9mo ago
  Quite surprised about ID4 numbers. Ours in the shop a few times per year, and we often crack jokes about it with other owners.
  - adamtulinius 9mo ago
    Oh I'm sure there's many faults on the VW (as well as Skoda, Audi and Seat) electric cars, but not in the "failing inspection" category apparently. (I drive a Skoda Enyaq, so no particular shade meant towards the VW-group)
    - varjag 9mo ago
      Yeah well, our ID.4 did fail its 4-year inspection, but that's not even the worst among the things it did. (It's charging on the parking lot right now, unlocked because central lock has failed)
    - arethuza 9mo ago
      How do you find the Enyaq?
  - thyristan 9mo ago
    The report from the original article is not a general problem rate but more specific: TÜV does mandatory technical inspections every two years. In those inspections, only safety- and environment-critical problems are checked for, so e.g. brakes, rust on structural parts, high emissions, non-working lights. But there is a whole bunch of stuff that they don't check for, e.g. heating/cooling, GPS not working, doesn't charge/start sometimes, ... So it's quite possible that both are true: Maybe ID4 has lots of non-safety and non-environment problems, so it is in the shop very often, but still rarely fails an official inspection.
bob1029 9mo ago
> "Axle suspensions suffer under the high weight of the drive battery, and the brakes are rarely used due to regenerative braking," Bühler told ADAC. "This can lead to defects in the brake discs, and there is a risk of reduced braking performance." I had a 5th gen Camaro that had terrible brakes because I could never get the rotors/pads hot enough during normal operation to properly "clean" them. They were so big you just couldn't do it without visiting the freeway or a race track. I had to get the rotors machined or replaced about once a year because the car mostly went to the grocery store. I think the best thing you can do is to occasionally stand on the brakes as hard as you can from >60mph. In a heavy EV you probably only need to do this once a week/month. There is something about mechanical contrivances and rare use. Complex machines tend to get sloppy when they aren't exercised regularly. The best way to prove a machine will work correctly is to use it frequently.
- ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
  > There is something about mechanical contrivances and rare use. Complex machines tend to get sloppy when they aren't exercised regularly. The best way to prove a machine will work correctly is to use it frequently. I see this a lot on other sites where people talk about buying an old Landrover or Range Rover as a "weekend car". That's never going to work. My nearly-30-year-old Range Rover had the fewest problems when I was putting around 3000 miles a month on it, all year round. If it sat long enough for the engine to cool to ambient, sure as shit you'd find something wrong the next time you started it.
- yabones 9mo ago
  Standing on the breaks frequently is how you end up with warped rotors, so there's some nuance here. Once in a while will stop rust and guck building up, frequently and you're replacing the discs early.
- greenavocado 9mo ago
  Tightening lug nuts in a circular pattern instead of switching opposite sides is also a great way to warp rotors and I wager is probably more common than most think
fabian2k 9mo ago
Looks like the Tesla Model Y has roughly the same amount of faults after less than 3 years as the top cars in this comparison have after 11-13 years (https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report/maengelzwerge-und-fehlerriesen https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report/maeng...). That's not a good look. I also don't buy the argument brought up several times in the comments here that this is caused by the lack of regular inspections. This is about very new cars, there shouldn't be that many issues to catch in inspections when the car is less than 3 years old.
- arpinum 9mo ago
  The inspection is not strictly about car reliability or build quality, it is about general safety. Article title is misleading - phone holder in wrong location or not securely fastened - missing first aid kit - split in windshield wiper - low washer fluid - headlight alignment - tyre slits from curbing - tyre wear levels - surface dirt on brake lines - rock chip in windshield - rust on brake disc - bodywork damage
  - fabian2k 9mo ago
    Your list is misleading, the TÜV is about safety, but you're only listing the more trivial things, I wonder why. They also check major things like steering. I think it is reasonably safe to assume that the issues that are not directly related to the specific model of the car are roughly evenly distributed among cars of the same age.
    - arpinum 9mo ago
      > the issues that are not directly related to the specific model of the car are roughly evenly distributed among cars No, because most cars are tested after a yearly servicing which includes a pre-inspection and remediation of issues. Tesla is somewhat unique in not having dealers and a recommended yearly servicing schedule.
    - arpinum 9mo ago
      > you're only listing the more trivial things, I wonder why There is an impression in the comments and the article headline that the test is about vehicle reliability. I'm pointing out a small list of the non-reliability parts of the test.
stuff4ben 9mo ago
I find any report that lists Mini Cooper and Audi as the most reliable cars to immediately be suspect. I'm not a Tesla or Musk fan by any stretch of the imagination, but Mini and Audi are not known for reliability, at least in their ICE vehicles.
- ju-st 9mo ago
  Because TÜV report are bullshit, Audis get checked and fixed by the dealer before the TÜV checks them, of course they have lower failure rates. TÜV competitor Dekra stopped publishing this kind of report years ago because of this https://www.dekra.de/de/dekra-gebrauchtwagenreport/ https://www.dekra.de/de/dekra-gebrauchtwagenreport/
  - bathtub365 9mo ago
    It sounds like they have much better service departments than Tesla if this is the case
- alamortsubite 9mo ago
  The first two Mini Cooper generations had serious problems, but the newer ones (~2014 onward) are very good. This report only covers recent cars.
wiredfool 9mo ago
The Irish NCT results for 2024 show high failure rates for Teslas in: - Vehicle safety and Equipment - Steering and Suspension - Side Slip - Wheels and Tires and to a lesser extent - Lights - Lighting and Electrical The (Tesla) overall failure rate is over 50% (697/1301), which is above the (population) overall failure rates of just under 50%. Note that the oldest Tesla is 2015, and most are 2020+ which is significantly newer than a good chunk of the cars on the road here. Also note that in my personal experience of ~10 NCTs, I've had 3 nominal failures which were stupid trivial things that aren't actually maintenance issues. (1, extra seat not in car. 2, tent peg fell in and folding seat didn't lock in place. 3, folding seat wasn't up when tested, as well as at least one where my mechanic swears that they screwed it up (steering rack boot not attached)) https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and-annual-reviews https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and...
- padjo 9mo ago
  An 18% failure rate on a one year old model Y under "suspension and steering". This is absolutely shocking. For comparison the ID4 had 0 failures at this age for this category, and for a much larger sample size. I assume these are all taxis as they're being tested so early. This implies there a ton of unsafe privately owned Model Ys on the road.
  - retired 9mo ago
    That is probably because the ID4s had pre-inspection before their yearly technical inspection. That is what they do in The Netherlands, probably also other countries. That makes their cars stand out in these reports.
    - mpol 9mo ago
      Don't all cars in the Netherlands have at least a small checkup before inspection? I once had a Fiat Panda from 1984, 20 years old by then. It had a small checkup and maintenance, then went for the inspection. It passed, but was highlighted for inspection from the controlling organizing. The mechanic, owner of the shop, started getting really nervous about losing his license, asking, is the car allright, is it really allright? And it passed inspection again.
ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
I've been saying for ages that when I see a breakdown truck it most often has some sort of Tesla on the back, and lots of people sneer about that and say I must have some kind of "EV derangement syndrome". Nope. I do see a lot of broken Teslas.
- bborud 9mo ago
  When they rolled out the Model X I remember the local Tesla dealership having to lease more parking space to fit all the broken Model X. I used to drive past the lot on my way to work, and it was always full and I'd notice cars standing there for weeks.
londons_explore 9mo ago
I just want a chart of total maintenance/running costs per model. Also maybe a chart of "uptime" per model - ie. how many days in the year on average was it drivable, vs in the shop being repaired/inspected/waiting for parts. Does anyone make that?
- thyristan 9mo ago
  There is an ADAC report, that reports the number of road-side defects per car type that the ADAC was called to fix: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/adac-pannenstatistik/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/a... And they do provide some statistics about running cost: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/autokosten/uebersicht/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/... However, both aren't that trustworthy, just better than nothing, because: The first one about road-side breakdowns is frequently gamed by car manufacturers, because in leasing and warranty contracts they often require the use of their own road-side assistance orgs, thereby bypassing ADAC. So the more expensive German manufacturers are definitely underrepresented there. And generally, ADAC has been known to produce unreliable tests and statistics: https://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/sicherheit/neue-vorwuerfe-gegen-den-adac-deutsche-autofahrer-im-wuergegriff-der-reifen-mafia_id_3593008.html https://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/sicherheit/neue-vorwuerfe... https://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/neue-enthuellungen-sind-auch-die-adac-reifentests-eine-farce-1.1879929 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/neue-enthuellungen-sind-auc...
  - londons_explore 9mo ago
    So generally Tesla Model 3/Y appears one of the best in that report... I assume the denominator is cars registered with ADAC, rather than all cars in germany? Presumably that means those with lease contracts requiring another breakdown service wouldn't affect the stats?
    - thyristan 9mo ago
      > I assume the denominator is cars registered with ADAC, rather than all cars in germany? Presumably that means those with lease contracts requiring another breakdown service wouldn't affect the stats? Not quite, the denominator is the number of road-side assistance calls they get. ADAC has a driver membership system, where you get that assistance for free as part of your membership as a driver. You can still call them as a non-member, and I suppose those calls will factor in the statistics as well, but that is expensive, so it's rare. And you don't register your car with them, so they don't know what their members are driving, you just tell them your membership number and can get assistance for whatever car you are currently driving in.
jstummbillig 9mo ago
"The most important section is that of 2-3 year old vehicles, because maintenance and mileage play lesser roles in reliability. The best performers in this category were the Mazda2 (2.9% defect rate)" Once again, my intuition is wildly off regarding how bad even the relatively good things are. 3% defect rate is good? Tesla seems insane. How do you get away with being so much worse for so many years in a highly competitive market?
theginger 9mo ago
Fisker owner here, hold my beer
1970-01-01 9mo ago
That's a very fluffy blurb. They state simply state "drivetrain components" are unreliable on their overall EV set and don't get into any details on why the Tesla are unreliable. You're better off stopping at a Supercharger and asking 10 random strangers how their vehicle has held up.
misiek08 9mo ago
European propaganda at its finest! > Report doesn't mention which defects were responsible for the Model Y's disappointing performance Because the only thing they really saw were rusty brake discs that aren’t heavily used, because Tesla tries to be really Eco and recovers energy instead of wasting. > Mercedes will usually receive better care than a cheap Dacia that may never see an authorized repair shop Poor Mercedes. Authorized shops never recommend to replace transmission fluid or do care about engine roughness. Unauthorized shop and Dacia will replace engine oil every 10-15k km or 40-60k km for gearbox and the car can easily do 2-3x more distance than Mercedes. Audi TFSI engines require full rebuild after 120k km because of such servicing, Mercedes V8s break after 25-40k km (valve springs break, cylinders got scratched). It’s great that for 2nd time in HN this propaganda without facts is spread again. And even if I’m defending Tesla here I love and drive petrol V8s. Not supporting diesel gate, simple maintenance and maybe some day (because they don’t break) easy repairs.
- 1970-01-01 9mo ago
  It does indeed look exactly like they support this headline with nothing else than "they are the worst, just trust us bro."
WarmWash 9mo ago
As pointed out by many here and a report from TUV competitor Dekra: These numbers are meaningless because the top manufacturers do pre-checks/repairs at the dealer before you go to TUV for inspection.
- padjo 9mo ago
  You can have a read of the Irish stats posted above. No pre-inspection confounders here, all tests performed by an independent body. Teslas fail a lot more than comparable EVs
taf2 9mo ago
Interesting been driving a Tesla since 2014 - worst issue I had was the seat belt recall - had to drive to the service center for a guy to tug on my seat belt and tell me I was all good… my current 2019 x has been rock solid - due for new tires but otherwise solid
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 9mo ago
(2025) Some discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456
keriati1 9mo ago
I think this might be very misleading. I own (in Europe) my 3rd VW. The reality is, that this check is done in the VW car service, and they do a pre-check. Then they call me on the phone and tell me what they need to fix and how much it will be. I always tell them OK, and they just fix everything before the real check is done. And this is exactly how it always works for all the people I know. Also, as far as I know, Tesla owners just take the car to a "random" check point and are probably surprised why it didn't pass.
morgengold 9mo ago
"Tesla Models 3 and Y: Ranking third-from-bottom and dead last respectively, these models are conspicuous for early issues with their brake discs and suspension." (1) 1) https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/-/media/de/corporate/pdf/presse/2025/november/191d_as_tuev-report-2026-baden-wuerttemberg.pdf https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/-/media/de/corporate/pdf/presse...

181 points by Archelaos 9mo ago

lm2s 9mo ago

In what world is this "The 2026 TUV Report doesn't mention which defects were responsible for the Model Y's disappointing performance." acceptable? Why are they not publishing which defects exist? Not only it make more credible, it would also warn people of what to look for.

elaus 9mo ago
TÜV is the mandatory inspection that every car in Germany has to go through. Failing that inspection means you _have_ to fix the issues or may no longer drive that car on public roads. So while it would be nice to get more detailled stats, I think this is still really helpful. For me the TÜV report was a very important source for my decission on which models (and to a lesser degree manufacturers) I should avoid.
- kiney 9mo ago
  There are more accredited inspection providers besides TüV in germany like Dekra etc. This matters because TüV does NOT have data for all cars and there might be self selection effects because drivers can choose where to do the inspection (many get it done by whatever provider their car dealer has a deal with, which might differ greatly by car brand)
  - thyristan 9mo ago
    TÜV is the largest such organisation in Germany and almost has a monopoly. The inspections themselves are colloquially even called "TÜV", even if you do it at some other org. However, as others have written, there is still some huge bias in those numbers. Especially German brand car shops provide an inspection service, where they pre-check and repair the car before the official inspection. Many of those German brands are also very big on company leasing, to the point where almost nobody buys a new BMW, Mercedes or Audi privately, they either get a new one as a company car via company leasing, or they get a used leasing return car. All those leasing cars always have the aforementioned inspection service as part of the leasing package. So those numbers are to be taken with a huge huge grain of salt.
    - kiney 9mo ago
      First of all TÜV isn't a single org but a shared brand of multiple independent companies. And while "TÜV" is used colloquially for the mandatory car inspection in germany even all TÜV named companies together aren't anywhere near a monopoly: all of them combined(!) have 37,5% market share in the german vehicle inspection market. The largest single org in that market is actually DEKRA with 32,5%. People say "Ich bring mein Auto zum TÜV", but they actually mean "I'm gonna drop it at my dealership and let him inspect it by whatever company he has a deal with" src: https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Fahrzeuguntersuchungen/_fahrzeuguntersuchungen_node.html https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Fahrzeuguntersuchu...
kotaKat 9mo ago
“The Tesla 3 and Y are not so fortunate, landing in second to last and last place respectively due to faults in their brake disks and axle suspension.” https://www.tuvsud.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025/november/used-e-vehicles-are-keeping-up-where-safety-is-concerned https://www.tuvsud.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025/novem... Just… I don’t know, actually look at your wheels and brakes every few thousand miles instead of let them ride for tens of thousands without service? Shouldn’t people be rotating their tires every 3-5000 miles anyways?
- loloquwowndueo 9mo ago
  What if the fault results in a failure after 800 miles? How does checking every few thousand help there?
- haspok 9mo ago
  But hey, these are electric cars which don't need regular service!... ...at least that is how they are sold. And people take it seriously.
  - orwin 9mo ago
    They cost less to service on average, which is true (at least in my country, Americans are weird with their cars and dealerships).
- otherme123 9mo ago
  Tires are not mentioned here. You could rotate them every 10 miles and still have faulty brake disks and axle suspensions. - Brake disks are not a regular maintenance piece. Brake pads are the pieces that need replacement every 30.000 kilometers, depending on how hard you use them. But brake disks can outlast the car. - Axle suspension is also not regular maintenance piece. Damper, bushings and springs need supervision and get changed every 80.000 kilometers or so. But to change an axle suspension without a serious hit to the car is very weird. Unless you are using brake disks and an axle suspension designed for a 1,000 kg lighter car. In that case, you might end with twisted or broken pieces after a few thousand kilometers.
- 9mo ago
ActorNightly 9mo ago
Do you really need any more reasons not to buy a Tesla?
Hamuko 9mo ago
Typically Teslas have failed for suspension issues in Finnish inspections. Most common failure category for Model 3 was "rear axle" and "front axle" for Model S. https://yle.fi/a/74-20184982 https://yle.fi/a/74-20184982
josefx 9mo ago
They are citing a blog post from the German magazine Auto Bild, which talks about the Auto Bild special "TÜV Report" edition. They are probably three or four layers of indirection removed from the original report produced by the TÜV itself. I found a mention of the report on this page from the ADAC: https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2026/ https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2026/ I think they mention suspension, brake and light related issues.
bborud 9mo ago
This is an article that summarizes a report. It is not the report. The actual report costs money (but isn't very expensive). If you live in Europe your car has to be inspected every 2 years. For new cars this kicks in after 3 years, and then after that it is every 2 years. The inspection is carried out by authorized mechanics and typically takes less than an hour. It is worth noting that authorities keep a close eye on authorized mechanics to ensure they do not cheat. If you cheat (eg let people pay you to pass their car), you lose authorization. The reason the TÜV report carries weight is that Germany has Europe’s largest vehicle fleet and TÜV has a strong reputation. Inspection standards are largely harmonized across Europe, and approvals or methodologies used by TÜV are often accepted or mirrored elsewhere. Defects are classified by severity. Serious defects can make the vehicle unroadworthy immediately; less serious ones require repair and re-inspection; very minor issues are simply noted. Even non-EU countries like Norway and the UK follow essentially the same inspection framework.
- ckdarby 9mo ago
  Does this put Germany's car insurance in the lowest cost?
  - bborud 9mo ago
    On average car insurance is cheaper in Germany, but I am unsure if this has anything to do with the required inspections. (Since it is mandatory anyway, it isn't a differentiator). I think it may be more about how insurance is structured and dealt with. For instance US has a civil tort based system which tends to push prices up quite a bit because outcomes are entirely unpredictable. In Germany insurance is not litigation centric, so there are literally no punitive damages, pain-and-suffering awards are modest and predictable and compensation is based on standardized tables. So insurance cases very rarely make it anywhere near courts.
  - thyristan 9mo ago
    Car insurance in Germany exists in 3 categories. The mandatory one, liability insurance, which pays out others' damages in case your car is in an accident and the driver of your car is found to be at fault. Base rates for those are by law based on the rate of payouts per car model and per owner's county at that insurance company. A multiplier makes the base rate more expensive or cheaper respectively for new drivers, accident-prone drivers or long-time accident-free drivers. No other external statistics are allowed to play a role. The two non-mandatory ones are "Vollkasko" and "Teilkasko", which pay for damages your own car suffered from various factors like animals, weather, accidents, road conditions and stuff like that. Vollkasko even pays for accidents you caused yourself, Teilkasko only for some of the aforementioned things. In both, insurers are still required to do some classification by county, but they are allowed to factor in statistics about your car's repair cost. But none of those will pay for your car just randomly breaking down and needing repairs, that is something you get a manufacturer's warranty for. And none of those is directly related to the mandatory inspections. I think I've read some statistics that driver behaviour and skill is also a large factor in why there are less accidents in Germany, at least compared to some regions of the world... But make of those what you will, that might as well be jingoism and often also comparing apples and oranges...

kotaKat 9mo ago

Is this once again because electric vehicles don’t get pulled into a mechanics shop every 10,000 miles for their oil to be changed and coincidentally inspected at the same time for mechanical defects that could be caught before they get pulled into a TUV annual inspection? Hrm, I wonder.

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gpjanik 9mo ago
Other EVs are incomparably better though.
- apelapan 9mo ago
  Other EV:s have service inspections as part of the warranty requirements. That means they get inspected by workshops, which means that problems are more likely to be first found during the government inspection. I don't think the actual quality difference under Equal conditions is a large as the TUV report suggests.
edarchis 9mo ago
This is the problem with this report. It doesn't mean that the cars break down more often, it means that they are so rarely at the shop that the drivers don't notice the used brake pads, tires etc.
- gspr 9mo ago
  > This is the problem with this report. It doesn't mean that the cars break down more often, it means that they are so rarely at the shop that the drivers don't notice the used brake pads, tires etc. The average European drives about 12,000 km (~7500 miles) per year [1]. The maximum inspection period allowed by the EU for most personal cars is 2 years [2]. The average person in the US drives about 13,400 miles (~ 21,500 km) per year [3]. So, roughly, the average European vehicle is inspected after a driving distance which is about the same as that which the average US vehicle puts behind it in a year. I thus doubt that the Tesla numbers from the article are greatly affected by a lack of inspections. [1] https://www.acea.auto/fact/fact-sheet-cars/ https://www.acea.auto/fact/fact-sheet-cars/ [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2014/45/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2014/45/oj/eng (chapter III, article 5, point 1). [3] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

rob74 9mo ago

Props for including the "Ü" in the title - although they somehow dropped it in the article text...

deleted 9mo ago
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matsemann 9mo ago
I have one in my name, and living in Norway I would've thought we were better at handling "special" characters in names, given that people here are named Bjørn and Åse and Kjærsti. Like, old legacy systems often handle those names, and I would assume they then used Latin-1 (ISO 8859-1) which have æøå and also ü. But for some reason my name has been stuck in loads of systems growing up. Things like porting my phone number not working because the system borked on my name. Or not being able to order something because the system asking for a credit report then jumbled my name so they got nothing in return. Or just because "name doesn't match the one on the card", but it's a system along the way stripping my name. Sigh.

theyneverlear 9mo ago

[flagged]

wg0 9mo ago

This is EU's fault because they have democracy and other liberal bullshit, pure woke propaganda. ~ Lord of the Lithium.

thelastgallon 9mo ago

Can't Musk 'encourage' Germany and EU democracies to vote for the right people and take over a wrecking ball to all these agencies causing mischief to his many and varied businesses? I'm sure there are politicians who need a couple of hundred dollars.

sschueller 9mo ago
One does not mess with the TÜV, it won't end well. Even in Turkey where they introduced TÜVTÜRK to get Turkey closer to EU regulations.

hobofan 9mo ago

This is from November 2025. I suspect it was reposted due to the news[0] of Tesla discontinuing their other models and the Model Y being one of the remaining two (besides the Model 3). [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46802867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46802867

varjag 9mo ago
Even that's a generous reading, given that Y and 3 are essentially the same car.
ChrisArchitect 9mo ago
Some discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456

adamtulinius 9mo ago

This mimics numbers from Denmark, where Model 3 had a failure rate of 20-25% after four years a couple of years ago, and last year the first Model Y's had to go through their first 4 year inspection and 45% failed. 34% of Model 3's failed last year. For comparison: Last year VW ID4 had a failure rate of 2%, and the average for _all_ electric cars (no matter age, including Teslas) was 7% failure. Causes: Breaks, wheels, steering, and a few more critical things along those lines. Objectively speaking, Tesla cannot manufacture cars that live up to European standards. Source: https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandalen-fortsaetter-naesten-hver-anden-tesla-model-y-dumper-til-syn https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-trafik-og-biler/tesla-skandale...

varjag 9mo ago
Quite surprised about ID4 numbers. Ours in the shop a few times per year, and we often crack jokes about it with other owners.
- adamtulinius 9mo ago
  Oh I'm sure there's many faults on the VW (as well as Skoda, Audi and Seat) electric cars, but not in the "failing inspection" category apparently. (I drive a Skoda Enyaq, so no particular shade meant towards the VW-group)
  - varjag 9mo ago
    Yeah well, our ID.4 did fail its 4-year inspection, but that's not even the worst among the things it did. (It's charging on the parking lot right now, unlocked because central lock has failed)
  - arethuza 9mo ago
    How do you find the Enyaq?
- thyristan 9mo ago
  The report from the original article is not a general problem rate but more specific: TÜV does mandatory technical inspections every two years. In those inspections, only safety- and environment-critical problems are checked for, so e.g. brakes, rust on structural parts, high emissions, non-working lights. But there is a whole bunch of stuff that they don't check for, e.g. heating/cooling, GPS not working, doesn't charge/start sometimes, ... So it's quite possible that both are true: Maybe ID4 has lots of non-safety and non-environment problems, so it is in the shop very often, but still rarely fails an official inspection.

bob1029 9mo ago

> "Axle suspensions suffer under the high weight of the drive battery, and the brakes are rarely used due to regenerative braking," Bühler told ADAC. "This can lead to defects in the brake discs, and there is a risk of reduced braking performance." I had a 5th gen Camaro that had terrible brakes because I could never get the rotors/pads hot enough during normal operation to properly "clean" them. They were so big you just couldn't do it without visiting the freeway or a race track. I had to get the rotors machined or replaced about once a year because the car mostly went to the grocery store. I think the best thing you can do is to occasionally stand on the brakes as hard as you can from >60mph. In a heavy EV you probably only need to do this once a week/month. There is something about mechanical contrivances and rare use. Complex machines tend to get sloppy when they aren't exercised regularly. The best way to prove a machine will work correctly is to use it frequently.

ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
> There is something about mechanical contrivances and rare use. Complex machines tend to get sloppy when they aren't exercised regularly. The best way to prove a machine will work correctly is to use it frequently. I see this a lot on other sites where people talk about buying an old Landrover or Range Rover as a "weekend car". That's never going to work. My nearly-30-year-old Range Rover had the fewest problems when I was putting around 3000 miles a month on it, all year round. If it sat long enough for the engine to cool to ambient, sure as shit you'd find something wrong the next time you started it.
yabones 9mo ago
Standing on the breaks frequently is how you end up with warped rotors, so there's some nuance here. Once in a while will stop rust and guck building up, frequently and you're replacing the discs early.
greenavocado 9mo ago
Tightening lug nuts in a circular pattern instead of switching opposite sides is also a great way to warp rotors and I wager is probably more common than most think

fabian2k 9mo ago

Looks like the Tesla Model Y has roughly the same amount of faults after less than 3 years as the top cars in this comparison have after 11-13 years (https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report/maengelzwerge-und-fehlerriesen https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report/maeng...). That's not a good look. I also don't buy the argument brought up several times in the comments here that this is caused by the lack of regular inspections. This is about very new cars, there shouldn't be that many issues to catch in inspections when the car is less than 3 years old.

arpinum 9mo ago
The inspection is not strictly about car reliability or build quality, it is about general safety. Article title is misleading - phone holder in wrong location or not securely fastened - missing first aid kit - split in windshield wiper - low washer fluid - headlight alignment - tyre slits from curbing - tyre wear levels - surface dirt on brake lines - rock chip in windshield - rust on brake disc - bodywork damage
- fabian2k 9mo ago
  Your list is misleading, the TÜV is about safety, but you're only listing the more trivial things, I wonder why. They also check major things like steering. I think it is reasonably safe to assume that the issues that are not directly related to the specific model of the car are roughly evenly distributed among cars of the same age.
  - arpinum 9mo ago
    > the issues that are not directly related to the specific model of the car are roughly evenly distributed among cars No, because most cars are tested after a yearly servicing which includes a pre-inspection and remediation of issues. Tesla is somewhat unique in not having dealers and a recommended yearly servicing schedule.
  - arpinum 9mo ago
    > you're only listing the more trivial things, I wonder why There is an impression in the comments and the article headline that the test is about vehicle reliability. I'm pointing out a small list of the non-reliability parts of the test.

stuff4ben 9mo ago

I find any report that lists Mini Cooper and Audi as the most reliable cars to immediately be suspect. I'm not a Tesla or Musk fan by any stretch of the imagination, but Mini and Audi are not known for reliability, at least in their ICE vehicles.

ju-st 9mo ago
Because TÜV report are bullshit, Audis get checked and fixed by the dealer before the TÜV checks them, of course they have lower failure rates. TÜV competitor Dekra stopped publishing this kind of report years ago because of this https://www.dekra.de/de/dekra-gebrauchtwagenreport/ https://www.dekra.de/de/dekra-gebrauchtwagenreport/
- bathtub365 9mo ago
  It sounds like they have much better service departments than Tesla if this is the case
alamortsubite 9mo ago
The first two Mini Cooper generations had serious problems, but the newer ones (~2014 onward) are very good. This report only covers recent cars.

wiredfool 9mo ago

The Irish NCT results for 2024 show high failure rates for Teslas in: - Vehicle safety and Equipment - Steering and Suspension - Side Slip - Wheels and Tires and to a lesser extent - Lights - Lighting and Electrical The (Tesla) overall failure rate is over 50% (697/1301), which is above the (population) overall failure rates of just under 50%. Note that the oldest Tesla is 2015, and most are 2020+ which is significantly newer than a good chunk of the cars on the road here. Also note that in my personal experience of ~10 NCTs, I've had 3 nominal failures which were stupid trivial things that aren't actually maintenance issues. (1, extra seat not in car. 2, tent peg fell in and folding seat didn't lock in place. 3, folding seat wasn't up when tested, as well as at least one where my mechanic swears that they screwed it up (steering rack boot not attached)) https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and-annual-reviews https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/statistics/nct-statistics-and...

padjo 9mo ago
An 18% failure rate on a one year old model Y under "suspension and steering". This is absolutely shocking. For comparison the ID4 had 0 failures at this age for this category, and for a much larger sample size. I assume these are all taxis as they're being tested so early. This implies there a ton of unsafe privately owned Model Ys on the road.
- retired 9mo ago
  That is probably because the ID4s had pre-inspection before their yearly technical inspection. That is what they do in The Netherlands, probably also other countries. That makes their cars stand out in these reports.
  - mpol 9mo ago
    Don't all cars in the Netherlands have at least a small checkup before inspection? I once had a Fiat Panda from 1984, 20 years old by then. It had a small checkup and maintenance, then went for the inspection. It passed, but was highlighted for inspection from the controlling organizing. The mechanic, owner of the shop, started getting really nervous about losing his license, asking, is the car allright, is it really allright? And it passed inspection again.

ErroneousBosh 9mo ago

I've been saying for ages that when I see a breakdown truck it most often has some sort of Tesla on the back, and lots of people sneer about that and say I must have some kind of "EV derangement syndrome". Nope. I do see a lot of broken Teslas.

bborud 9mo ago
When they rolled out the Model X I remember the local Tesla dealership having to lease more parking space to fit all the broken Model X. I used to drive past the lot on my way to work, and it was always full and I'd notice cars standing there for weeks.

londons_explore 9mo ago

I just want a chart of total maintenance/running costs per model. Also maybe a chart of "uptime" per model - ie. how many days in the year on average was it drivable, vs in the shop being repaired/inspected/waiting for parts. Does anyone make that?

thyristan 9mo ago
There is an ADAC report, that reports the number of road-side defects per car type that the ADAC was called to fix: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/adac-pannenstatistik/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/a... And they do provide some statistics about running cost: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/autokosten/uebersicht/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/... However, both aren't that trustworthy, just better than nothing, because: The first one about road-side breakdowns is frequently gamed by car manufacturers, because in leasing and warranty contracts they often require the use of their own road-side assistance orgs, thereby bypassing ADAC. So the more expensive German manufacturers are definitely underrepresented there. And generally, ADAC has been known to produce unreliable tests and statistics: https://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/sicherheit/neue-vorwuerfe-gegen-den-adac-deutsche-autofahrer-im-wuergegriff-der-reifen-mafia_id_3593008.html https://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/sicherheit/neue-vorwuerfe... https://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/neue-enthuellungen-sind-auch-die-adac-reifentests-eine-farce-1.1879929 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/neue-enthuellungen-sind-auc...
- londons_explore 9mo ago
  So generally Tesla Model 3/Y appears one of the best in that report... I assume the denominator is cars registered with ADAC, rather than all cars in germany? Presumably that means those with lease contracts requiring another breakdown service wouldn't affect the stats?
  - thyristan 9mo ago
    > I assume the denominator is cars registered with ADAC, rather than all cars in germany? Presumably that means those with lease contracts requiring another breakdown service wouldn't affect the stats? Not quite, the denominator is the number of road-side assistance calls they get. ADAC has a driver membership system, where you get that assistance for free as part of your membership as a driver. You can still call them as a non-member, and I suppose those calls will factor in the statistics as well, but that is expensive, so it's rare. And you don't register your car with them, so they don't know what their members are driving, you just tell them your membership number and can get assistance for whatever car you are currently driving in.

jstummbillig 9mo ago

"The most important section is that of 2-3 year old vehicles, because maintenance and mileage play lesser roles in reliability. The best performers in this category were the Mazda2 (2.9% defect rate)" Once again, my intuition is wildly off regarding how bad even the relatively good things are. 3% defect rate is good? Tesla seems insane. How do you get away with being so much worse for so many years in a highly competitive market?

theginger 9mo ago

Fisker owner here, hold my beer

1970-01-01 9mo ago

That's a very fluffy blurb. They state simply state "drivetrain components" are unreliable on their overall EV set and don't get into any details on why the Tesla are unreliable. You're better off stopping at a Supercharger and asking 10 random strangers how their vehicle has held up.

misiek08 9mo ago

European propaganda at its finest! > Report doesn't mention which defects were responsible for the Model Y's disappointing performance Because the only thing they really saw were rusty brake discs that aren’t heavily used, because Tesla tries to be really Eco and recovers energy instead of wasting. > Mercedes will usually receive better care than a cheap Dacia that may never see an authorized repair shop Poor Mercedes. Authorized shops never recommend to replace transmission fluid or do care about engine roughness. Unauthorized shop and Dacia will replace engine oil every 10-15k km or 40-60k km for gearbox and the car can easily do 2-3x more distance than Mercedes. Audi TFSI engines require full rebuild after 120k km because of such servicing, Mercedes V8s break after 25-40k km (valve springs break, cylinders got scratched). It’s great that for 2nd time in HN this propaganda without facts is spread again. And even if I’m defending Tesla here I love and drive petrol V8s. Not supporting diesel gate, simple maintenance and maybe some day (because they don’t break) easy repairs.

1970-01-01 9mo ago
It does indeed look exactly like they support this headline with nothing else than "they are the worst, just trust us bro."

WarmWash 9mo ago

As pointed out by many here and a report from TUV competitor Dekra: These numbers are meaningless because the top manufacturers do pre-checks/repairs at the dealer before you go to TUV for inspection.

padjo 9mo ago
You can have a read of the Irish stats posted above. No pre-inspection confounders here, all tests performed by an independent body. Teslas fail a lot more than comparable EVs

taf2 9mo ago

Interesting been driving a Tesla since 2014 - worst issue I had was the seat belt recall - had to drive to the service center for a guy to tug on my seat belt and tell me I was all good… my current 2019 x has been rock solid - due for new tires but otherwise solid

deleted 9mo ago

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ChrisArchitect 9mo ago

(2025) Some discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064456

keriati1 9mo ago

I think this might be very misleading. I own (in Europe) my 3rd VW. The reality is, that this check is done in the VW car service, and they do a pre-check. Then they call me on the phone and tell me what they need to fix and how much it will be. I always tell them OK, and they just fix everything before the real check is done. And this is exactly how it always works for all the people I know. Also, as far as I know, Tesla owners just take the car to a "random" check point and are probably surprised why it didn't pass.

morgengold 9mo ago

"Tesla Models 3 and Y: Ranking third-from-bottom and dead last respectively, these models are conspicuous for early issues with their brake discs and suspension." (1) 1) https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/-/media/de/corporate/pdf/presse/2025/november/191d_as_tuev-report-2026-baden-wuerttemberg.pdf https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/-/media/de/corporate/pdf/presse...