4 ms·

You gotta love the TSA. They serve no real purpose, but its a monster too big to kill, staffed by people who desperately cling to the notion they're doing somet

• closewith 9mo ago
  > they don't stop bombings (there are much better targets for that, which don't involve killing the bomber), I think you should read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_airliner_bombing_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_airliner_bombing_a... The only reason you believe aircraft bombings aren't being stopped is because you live in a world where rigourous security has stopped all aircraft bombings.
  • thaumasiotes 9mo ago
    There's a pretty strong trend in that timeline of two types of "bombings": (1) Bombings in which the bomb is supplied by someone who isn't flying on the plane; (2) Failed hijackings in which there was no intent to bomb the plane, but a bomb accidentally went off.
    • lblissett 9mo ago
      also, people always immediately think of terrorism, but TIL that life insurance policies are responsible for way more plane bombings than I thought
  • reeredfdfdf 9mo ago
    Yeah. The "security theater" absolutely does play its part in stopping attacks. Without it, airplanes would be an extremely easy target for any nutjob to commit mass murder in. They wouldn't even necessarily need a bomb, anything that can cause a big enough fire mid-flight could be potentially catastrophic. Over past few decades many airliners have crashed because out of control fire in the cabin / cargo hold. I really don't want it to be easy for any random person to cause such fire.
    • sethammons 9mo ago
      Did you drop a sarcasm tag? Anyone can make a fire on a plane as they allow lighters on a plane, and batteries, and any number of flammable objects. None of that is facing any scrutiny nor stopping crazy people from being crazy.
      • wakawaka28 9mo ago
        I've heard that cell phones often catch fire on planes, and the crews know how to deal with that. I guess they have to because the odds of one going up are pretty good across so many flights.
        • throwaway290 9mo ago
          It's easier to deal if it's in carry on bag. This is why batteries are forbidden in checked luggage. Once it all burns the airplane has got to land asap and it's an emergency. My checked luggage did not pass xray multiple times because they detected powerbanks. I had to come back and take it out. However it also did pass xray a couple times with powerbanks so it's not a reliable system.
          • edm0nd 9mo ago
            Alternatively, I checked 3-4 20k mAh powerbanks in my luggage on my flight to Utah and it never got flagged or detected.
            • throwaway290 9mo ago
              like yes I pointed out it doesn't always work. sometimes I don't even know if anybody is watching the screen
        • deleted 9mo ago
          [deleted]
      • NamTaf 9mo ago
        Ironically, both India and China forbid lighters on planes. Famously you see a collection of them around the bins just outside the airport as all the smokers leave them for others.
  • VBprogrammer 9mo ago
    Trains are a much easier target in most countries. Generally only the high-speed / cross border ones have any security at all. Until maybe 10 years ago you didn't even really need a ticket to get access to one (now ticket barriers are common).
• ssl-3 9mo ago
  The grunts working for TSA on the floor at airports aren't desperately clinging for the notion that they're doing something important, or working towards some lofty, noble, and/or altruistic goal. It's just a job. They're principally motivated to do this job by the promise of a steady paycheck and decent benefits -- the same motivation that most other people with steady paychecks and decent benefits also have.
  • dataengineer56 9mo ago
    In my experience many of them do feel like they're doing something important, and some seem principally motivated to do the job by the promise of being able to bully travellers.
    • mlrtime 9mo ago
      >do feel like they're doing something important First I agree TSA is mostly theater... however if you HAD to have it, you want the people to work like this. I might be old-school but I think everyone should have pride and responsibility in their work. Even if from the outside it is meaningless. 100% no reason to be a bully, that is not pride/responsibility. Every job has ass assholes.
      • swiftcoder 9mo ago
        > Every job has ass assholes. Yeah, but jobs that are police-adjacent have them at a very high rate. Almost like they select for it or something...
        • cucumber3732842 9mo ago
          >Yeah, but jobs that are police-adjacent have them at a very high rate. Almost like they select for it or something... Proximity to violence is probably the measuring stick you're looking for. Police spend the bulk of their day credibly threatening violence. Just about every word that comes out of their mouth, pen or keyboard while they're at work is implicitly back by an "or else". Everyone who isn't an asshole is gonna wash out of that job, start doing something behind a desk, start a PI firm, etc. etc. So you're left with rookie and assholes and the occasional exception. The TSA, all your non-police state and municipal enforcement agencies, etc, etc, are gonna serve to concentrate "asshole lites" people because anybody who isn't will have issues spending their day dispensing what are basically "do as I say, or pay what I say, or else the police will do violence on you" threats on behalf of the state and so they'll jump ship as they become jaded same as cops do, but the pressures are less because they're not as proximate to the violence. You can take this a third step out. There are all sorts of industries, jobs, etc, etc. that exist soley to keep the above two groups off your back. Nobody wants to hire these people, but are basically forced to under 3rd hand thread of violence. Same effect, but still watered down. Even more removed are jobs where some fraction of the business is driven to you under similar circumstances. For example, ask any mechanic. People forced to be there by a state inspection program are consistently the worst customers. And there's the same wash out effect. People get tired of arguing about tread depth or whatever and they go turn wrenches on forklifts or whatever.
• throwaway290 9mo ago
  > they don't stop weapons (lots of airports outside the US have simple metal detectors for that.) There are 3D printed guns.
  • fc417fc802 9mo ago
    Those tend to have extremely limited usefulness. Good enough to assassinate a single person at point blank range before they catastrophically fail but (unless something has changed) not much else. Plastic just isn't cut out for the job.
  • koshergweilo 9mo ago
    Don't you still need metal bullets for the 3d printed gun?
    • fc417fc802 9mo ago
      Those don't generally have any ferrous components.
      • edm0nd 9mo ago
        yes but the spring in the magazine does. also the rails on the lower, the barrel, etc.
        • fc417fc802 9mo ago
          Not in the context of someone smuggling a weapon through a security checkpoint. At least not unless they're certain that it's small enough not to trigger the detector. That said I will note that it is generally illegal to possess such nonferrous weapons regardless of circumstance.
          • mrguyorama 9mo ago
            And it is, again, completely irrelevant. How does a plastic pistol open the cockpit door? It is proof to small calibers. You might shoot someone in the plane and then you will be subdued and ghaddafied with a SkyMall magazine. Not the most effective form of terrorism. Countries that didn't create the TSA also had a reduction in terrorism.
• matwood 9mo ago
  > They don't stop hijackings (locking the cockpit door does that) 9/11 also stopped all future hijackings. Up to that point passengers were trained that if they stayed calm they would likely survive. Now? Short of the hijackers getting guns on the plane, passengers will absolutely fight back. > they don't stop bombings (there are much better targets for that, which don't involve killing the bomber) Suicide bombers are probably the main vector that TSA helps avoid even if they miss some items sometimes.
  • ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
    > Suicide bombers are probably the main vector that TSA helps avoid even if they miss some items sometimes. Not really, but this is because there are pretty much no suicide bombers anywhere in airports. They are incredibly rare. But if you're a suicide bomber, by the time you get to the TSA checkpoint you can do a ton of damage inside a terminal during a holiday season when all airports are packed. Until then no one is stopping you.
    • Scoundreller 9mo ago
      That’s what happened in Brussels. I was hoping these events could be used to impose fines/jailtime for airlines/airports/security that have queues longer than 5 people, but you know, counter-terrorism can’t mean making life better for the public.
      • ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
        > I was hoping these events could be used to impose fines/jailtime for airlines/airports/security that have queues longer than 5 people, but you know, counter-terrorism can’t mean making life better for the public. Not even at private airports or business terminal can you can manage not having a queue smaller than 5 people. So this is a really no-go from many points of view. BRU did something incredibly retarded after the incident: moved the queue outside. I mean yes, in open air a bomb is less lethal than in an enclosed space, but will still kill people. And like others said, we developed capabilities to track hostiles before they can actually blow up a bunch of people. That's why you don't see FRA or MUC or CDG or LHR being blown up daily.
• burner420042 9mo ago
  When flying international in to the US, we literally all stand in long lines watching the TSA agents. TSA serves as the introduction to America... I can't think of another country where the personnel aren't groomed and 'height / weight proportionate'.