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TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing
- archerx 9mo agoLet’s be real, we all know this is about censorship, surveillance and controlling narratives.
- ronsor 9mo agoOld: CCP censorship, CCP surveillance, CCP narratives New: US censorship, US surveillance, US narratives (patriot approved) I feel like this outcome is so much worse than just banning the platform.
- smt88 9mo ago> US censorship, US surveillance, US narratives (patriot approved) This is the status quo for a lot of US media, but TikTok is actually much worse. The "US narratives" in this case are in service of Trump, possibly behind closed doors as table stakes for the purchase agreement.
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoSo.. US intelligence agencies and data brokers are going to mine it and US interests are going to pump it full of human and bot sockpuppets to manufacture the consent of users to be more aligned with ideas that work best for the Ellisons' interests.
- selectodude 9mo agoCorrect. We've fixed TikTok by blowing off a law enacted by Congress to ban it and now Oracle has a live tracking of every user by GPS.
- coffe2mug 9mo agoDid you mean ... live tracking by ICE
- eudamoniac 9mo agoYes, this is terrible. Before now it was fine, just Chinese intelligence agencies and data brokers mining it and Chinese interests pumping it full of human and bot sockpuppets to manufacture the consent of users to be more aligned with ideas that work best for the CCP's interests, but now it's just ruined.
- manuelmoreale 9mo agoI’ll engage with this because I’m curious about your position. I’m not a TikTok user and I’m not American. All the other American controlled social media platforms are exactly like your China description from my point of view: it’s American agencies and data brokers mining it and American interests pumping it. Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? I have no sympathy for what China is doing but I have no sympathy for what America is doing either. Why do you think one’s more acceptable other than “it’s my country doing it”, assuming you are American that is.
- kelnos 9mo agoNot the person you're replying to, but: > Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? Yes, absolutely. If your country's people believe that WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. are a threat in the same way, they should take the same action. (Mind you, I don't believe for a second that this was the real motivation behind what's gone on with TikTok, but I think it's a reasonable course of action to take if you think there is a threat there, regardless of what company or country we're talking about.)
- manuelmoreale 9mo agoPersonally I’m of the opinion that forcing sale and nationalization is not a good way to go about solving these issues. I think one better way would be to make it so there are consequences for actions. And consequences should start flowing from the top but I know this is a dream and we live in a world where consequences for their actions are no longer a thing that exists if you have enough money.
- rzerowan 9mo agoTechnically would be correct to say its being split into TikTok US and TikTok Rest of World , probably why one of their new ToS includes geolocating the end user for user segmentation. Since i dont think they are going to split the app - probably keep using the same published one.
- Shank 9mo agoIt seems like what this will basically entail is a US algorithm and moderation system, while the core app remains with ByteDance. > The Joint Venture will secure U.S. apps through software assurance protocols, and review and validate source code on an ongoing basis, assisted by its Trusted Security Partner, Oracle. So the new team will be in charge of content moderation, training, and "review and validat[ion]" of source code. Not actually a new app.
- NoteyComplexity 9mo agoWhat is the point of using short form content platforms as a consumer really? Just put the political stuff aside, they are often too short for any details over any topics if not straightly brainrot, ending up making people get distracted and lost patience easily. I never a fan of YouTube shorts and instagram reels either because of the same reason. Perhaps they are good for promotion, but as a user perspective, can anyone really point out one good reason to use these platforms?
- ronsor 9mo ago> What is the point of junk food? The answer to this is the same as the answer to your first question.
- NoteyComplexity 9mo agoJust because it is addictive? I don’t see this is a good reason to use TikTok.
- eudamoniac 9mo agoI had this discussion once before, I don't remember where, with I taking your position. The other guy seemed to think that entertainment was fungible, and so the entertainment of short form video was objectively better than long form, since it could theoretically be turned off at any point unlike a movie, and since it had infinite variety. Which I guess makes sense if you believe the fungibility, but I can't imagine associating in real life with such a person.
- majormajor 9mo agoThe "I can turn it off unlike a movie" idea is wild. We've had the ability to pause and resume long-form TV/movies for decades. Heck, how does that person think people read books? Six to ten hour sitting marathons?
- lerp-io 9mo ago
- ddtaylor 9mo agoDidn't this all start with data privacy? How is TikTok user data more private today than it was a year ago?
- halapro 9mo agoI think it was more about control. The narrative was that the Chinese government was intentionally affecting the algorithm for US users to dumb them down and affect elections.
- 2bitencryption 9mo agoI’m not sure about “dumb them down”, I suspect it’s more like “subtly influence popular opinion”. My husbands TickTock feed is full of things like “10 things Americans do that Chinese think are weird”, “10 reasons Chinese cities are in the 22nd century” etc etc. I personally don’t think that’s propaganda - most of it is factually true and would be pushed to the front of any fair algorithm because it is engaging. But I can kinda see the concern, even though I disagree with the outcome.
- pr337h4m 9mo agoThis (and PAFACA in general) is a massive disgrace from a 1A POV.
- edg5000 9mo agoWhat is 1A and PAFCA?
- joecool1029 9mo ago1st amendment and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore...
- kelnos 9mo agoWhat's the first amendment angle here? Foreign actors aren't covered under 1A, and people in the US are just as able to publish to and consume TikTok as they were before.
- user3939382 9mo agoOnly a fool would trust the political moderation on any major corporate platform at this point. Some I’m sure see this as a great win. All our media, real estate, and economy is already obviously for sale to foreign govts, but when it comes to propaganda we draw the line.
- devsda 9mo agoGood. now that it is done, can EU and the rest of the world push for regional ownership of Instagram, WhatsApp and Youtube without the US complaining unfair practices. Chinese ownership as a security threat is currently in between reality and conspiracy realms but the US govt meddling as a threat is a proven reality worldwide.
- Meekro 9mo agoThe EU would have to put the US on a list of "foreign adversaries", with whatever political fallout comes from that. Not saying they shouldn't, but there will be downsides. Since controlling these platforms is probably the best ROI for swinging public opinion, I'm sure it's a matter of time before they get seized (one way or another) and redistributed to reliable political allies.
- 2bitencryption 9mo agoWould they? There are already data residency laws, and the US didn’t have to be on any foreign adversary list for those to work, right?
- aaronbrethorst 9mo agowhether or not they formally put the US on such a list for trade purposes, clearly they see the US as such.
- felipeerias 9mo agoI am European and live in Japan. China is currently providing weapons for Russia to wage large-scale war in Europe, while supporting a dictatorship in North Korea that regularly launches nuclear-capable misiles in my general direction.
- xethos 9mo agoThe ”Leader of the Free World” and Commander in Chief of the largest, most well-equipped military force the world has ever seen, with bases dotted around the globe has spent the last several months threatening annexation of my country. For extra fun, this doesn’t even determine if I live in Greenland or Canada - let alone adding ”Abducting a foreign head of state to lay claim to natural resources”, which could make me Venezuelan! North Korea is a fire down the block; America is a grease fire in my kitchen, and I hope you'll forgive me for prioritizing the immediate threat
- petterroea 9mo agoIt's great that Americans can now enjoy being surveiled by private companies instead of possibly being surveiled by a government. What a great improvement
- smt88 9mo agoDo you feel there's no difference between being surveilled by Oracle and being surveilled by the CCP? They're both terrible, but do you really think they're equivalent? There's also the issue of the algorithm being used for propaganda, which (again) is also terrible in the hands of either party, but with potentially very different outcomes.
- spencerflem 9mo agoThe CCP has far less impact on my life as an American than the US government.
- petterroea 9mo agoIt's not the same, I see it more as two flavours of bad. However, the scary thing with private surveillance is that we do not know and won't know for a while the extent it is used. Private surveillance however has the possibility to be much worse than government surveillance. We are already seeing collected data being used by the government to carry out enforcement (see period app subpoenas and the cameras that track where everyone drives), but the private actors have a perverse incentive to surveil as much as they can and make as much actionable data on it as possible. They can then show up at the governments door and offer it. That is, private surveillance has the potential to surveil in ways governments don't even know they want, and they have an incentive to find any hole in the surveillance market and fill it.
- petterroea 9mo agoJust reflecting more on this, can't you argue the whole cambridge analytica scandal was a case of private surveilance being used to affect an election through targeted propaganda? Same with brexit? Sure, a political party is not a government, but surely capitalism-flavored mass surveilance has the same capabilities, and the buyers seem to have similar incentives to good 'ol government surveilance and propaganda.
- Physkal 9mo agoSo what's the workaround here...VPN from another country?
- throw310822 9mo agoI don't get why they sold it. If the Chinese government really had a say, simply refusing would have been a better option, as Trump would have never dared shutting off an app loved by hundreds of millions of voters.
- nirui 9mo agoWrong. The definitive factor here is whether the Chinese company wants to put themselves deep in the American political water. To any company, living under a crosshair alone is difficult enough, it becomes even more so when the company is foreign-owned. The sell was a strategically correct decision by ByteDance, they made money out of it and they secured some future income, at least for a short while. But no app or service lives forever anyways, so it's still a good trade. Whether or not the sell could benefit actual American users was never mattered.
- throw310822 9mo agoI wasn't talking about Bytedance's point of view, but that of the Chinese government. As a private company without state backing, I agree that selling might have been the best decision to maximise their profits. But could have been politically advantageous for China to veto the sale- even if the platform were politically neutral- because it was basically untouchable, as was already proven by years of delay. They might have used it as a bargaining chip, and then I'd be curious to know what they got back.
- maxglute 9mo agoPRC veto = no algo transfer = bytedance/tiktok US can't be "sold" / total divestiture. New "sale" basically US conceded to PRC JV model, i.e. US companies operating in PRC has local data warehousing requirements, company gets to keep algo and ip, country gets technical custody over data. That's basically extend of thumb on skills PRC had to apply, they're fine with sovereign cloud etc, they weren't with forced divestiture (trying to coerce entire PRC company to flip).
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- xnx 8mo agoBytedance has been pushing their own TikTok alternative, Lemon8, since TikTok first came under government attack in the US. Will be interesting to see what they do with that.