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It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a n

by dgacmu 9mo ago

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/41-EIT-Emissions-Report-5a-Digital-1.pdf https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4...

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have an engine for harsh winter days, power outages, and you have 600 miles EPA range on gas for sudden road trips. People are really sleeping on hybrids. Even a used non-plug-in Prius will get 50 city and 50 highway MPG. No gas sedan can do that.
- wilg 9mo ago
  Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars.
- jamescrowley 9mo ago
  Unfortunately most people's actual usage patterns for plug-in hybrids appear to make them worse than just a straight up ICE - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
- rswail 9mo ago
  PHEVs are a very interim solution. There are some advantages while range anxiety is an issue. Yes, EVs have a weight penalty of ~250-500kg of battery currently. Battery technology is rapidly advancing, when Na-ion batteries are introduced more widely, the whole range anxiety issue will become moot, because a recharge will take as long as refueling an ICE vehicle. The weight difference will also start to reduce, both due to newer batteries, but also moving to lighter weight construction and increased use of alternatives to steel. Arguing for ICE technology in 2025 is like Blackberry/Nokia users complaining about the loss of keyboards & T9 texting.
- ubertaco 9mo ago
  I looked into PHEVs on my last vehicle shopping go-round, since few pure EVs met my cargo size requirements (stroller/baby life is a whole thing). Ultimately, it was way more worth it to go all the way up to an F150 Lightning than to go with a good PHEV, partly due to up-front cost, but mostly due to ongoing cost: I will need to change the oil on the electric motors maybe every 150,000miles, and I never need an emissions test again. PHEVs require keeping the gas engine up, and getting it emissions-tested. A whole category of cost just straight-up disappeared, for cheaper than I could get a RAV4 Prime too.
  - kube-system 9mo ago
    The cost to maintain and inspect a PHEV engine in most vehicles is so minuscule as to be a rounding error. Engine oils last a long time these days.
    - ubertaco 9mo ago
      When you've got kids, there's no such thing as "rounding errors" in terms of time costs. It's an entire chore I never have to do. That time savings is significant when I'm already underwater all the time.
jbm 9mo ago
This will be met with consternation, not appreciation. The people who comment about brake dust in EV topics are the people who complain about birds when talking about windmills. We know it is disingenuous because no one cares about this when discussing overweight trucks and SUVs. Good news about a reduction in pollution from EVs? Can't have that. It's like the "At what price" meme around headlines about China. Going forward, I will downvote any comment about "brake pollution" and "tire pollution" that does not begin with - specifically - "This is a bigger issue for large, gas-powered trucks and SUVs", and invite you all to do so to. The association of these shitty comments with EV topics is as organic as lighter fluid.
- nostrebored 9mo ago
  Hi, I’m indeed the same person. I also hate oversized trucks. I’m generally against things that make the world worse for marginal benefits. The cybertruck clocks in at around the same weight as oversized trucks. Whenever I see people alone in either, I’m pretty annoyed. Semis for long haul are also annoying and we should substantially increase rail infra in the US
- lagniappe 9mo ago
  I'm the person who commented it and I don't appreciate your straw man here.
- bruce511 9mo ago
  Please don't downvote comments because you don't agree with the argument. Downvotes should be for comments that add little to the discussion. I agree that discussing weight with regard to EVs, without acknowledging that (in the US) the fashion is for big heavy ICE cars is just as polluting is disingenuous. That said, outside the US the trend is for smaller cars, and equally the weight of a small EV is not hugely dissimilar to a common ICE car. Frankly I'm not sure there's a whole lot to say about tire dust- cars need tires. EVs generate less brake dust. If there's a tire dust discussion to be had, then that discussion is independent of the vehicle fuel source.
  - danaris 9mo ago
margalabargala 9mo ago
> but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust Which unfortunately also increases tire wear from regen braking during periods when an ICE vehicle would be coasting without braking. EVs are much (much much) better for CO2, much better for brake dust, and much worse for tire dust.
- fafac 9mo ago
  The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. The reason there's more dust is from the increased weight of the EV not because of regen braking. You can coast in EV as well, that is not exclusive to ICE.
  - margalabargala 9mo ago
    > The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amount of regenerative braking. It's not really possible to hold the accelerator pedal at the exact position where you are not applying motor power but also have 0kW of regen braking, certainly for any extended period of time. If your point is that someone could make an EV to which regen braking contributes no more to tire wear than an ICE vehicle, you're correct. Unfortunately, no such EVs are currently manufactured. Even the ones that allow you to "turn off" regen braking will generally apply 1-2kW of regen if your foot is off the accelerator.
    - YZF 9mo ago
      But ICE vehicles can be in engine breaking mode. You pretty much never "coast" (e.g. put the vehicle in neutral or hold the clutch in). I get what you're saying but it feels like it's way in the margin if an effect at all. Do you have some reference? People keep talking about tire wear but my model 3 tires (which are relatively high performance soft tires) aren't wearing any faster than the wear I used to get on my Subaru before. I just don't drive aggressively. Flooring the accelerator must be the big difference. I don't think the weight difference is that large, certainly compared to trucks.
kalaksi 9mo ago
ICE cars also require large and heavy trucks to transport fuel around constantly.
- darknavi 9mo ago
  ICE cars also often leak all sorts of liquids onto roadways (and thus into our water ways).

by dgacmu 9mo ago

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago

Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have an engine for harsh winter days, power outages, and you have 600 miles EPA range on gas for sudden road trips. People are really sleeping on hybrids. Even a used non-plug-in Prius will get 50 city and 50 highway MPG. No gas sedan can do that.

wilg 9mo ago
Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars.
jamescrowley 9mo ago
Unfortunately most people's actual usage patterns for plug-in hybrids appear to make them worse than just a straight up ICE - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
rswail 9mo ago
PHEVs are a very interim solution. There are some advantages while range anxiety is an issue. Yes, EVs have a weight penalty of ~250-500kg of battery currently. Battery technology is rapidly advancing, when Na-ion batteries are introduced more widely, the whole range anxiety issue will become moot, because a recharge will take as long as refueling an ICE vehicle. The weight difference will also start to reduce, both due to newer batteries, but also moving to lighter weight construction and increased use of alternatives to steel. Arguing for ICE technology in 2025 is like Blackberry/Nokia users complaining about the loss of keyboards & T9 texting.
ubertaco 9mo ago
I looked into PHEVs on my last vehicle shopping go-round, since few pure EVs met my cargo size requirements (stroller/baby life is a whole thing). Ultimately, it was way more worth it to go all the way up to an F150 Lightning than to go with a good PHEV, partly due to up-front cost, but mostly due to ongoing cost: I will need to change the oil on the electric motors maybe every 150,000miles, and I never need an emissions test again. PHEVs require keeping the gas engine up, and getting it emissions-tested. A whole category of cost just straight-up disappeared, for cheaper than I could get a RAV4 Prime too.
- kube-system 9mo ago
  The cost to maintain and inspect a PHEV engine in most vehicles is so minuscule as to be a rounding error. Engine oils last a long time these days.
  - ubertaco 9mo ago
    When you've got kids, there's no such thing as "rounding errors" in terms of time costs. It's an entire chore I never have to do. That time savings is significant when I'm already underwater all the time.

jbm 9mo ago

This will be met with consternation, not appreciation. The people who comment about brake dust in EV topics are the people who complain about birds when talking about windmills. We know it is disingenuous because no one cares about this when discussing overweight trucks and SUVs. Good news about a reduction in pollution from EVs? Can't have that. It's like the "At what price" meme around headlines about China. Going forward, I will downvote any comment about "brake pollution" and "tire pollution" that does not begin with - specifically - "This is a bigger issue for large, gas-powered trucks and SUVs", and invite you all to do so to. The association of these shitty comments with EV topics is as organic as lighter fluid.

nostrebored 9mo ago
Hi, I’m indeed the same person. I also hate oversized trucks. I’m generally against things that make the world worse for marginal benefits. The cybertruck clocks in at around the same weight as oversized trucks. Whenever I see people alone in either, I’m pretty annoyed. Semis for long haul are also annoying and we should substantially increase rail infra in the US
lagniappe 9mo ago
I'm the person who commented it and I don't appreciate your straw man here.
bruce511 9mo ago
Please don't downvote comments because you don't agree with the argument. Downvotes should be for comments that add little to the discussion. I agree that discussing weight with regard to EVs, without acknowledging that (in the US) the fashion is for big heavy ICE cars is just as polluting is disingenuous. That said, outside the US the trend is for smaller cars, and equally the weight of a small EV is not hugely dissimilar to a common ICE car. Frankly I'm not sure there's a whole lot to say about tire dust- cars need tires. EVs generate less brake dust. If there's a tire dust discussion to be had, then that discussion is independent of the vehicle fuel source.
- danaris 9mo ago

margalabargala 9mo ago

> but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust Which unfortunately also increases tire wear from regen braking during periods when an ICE vehicle would be coasting without braking. EVs are much (much much) better for CO2, much better for brake dust, and much worse for tire dust.

fafac 9mo ago
The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. The reason there's more dust is from the increased weight of the EV not because of regen braking. You can coast in EV as well, that is not exclusive to ICE.
- margalabargala 9mo ago
  > The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amount of regenerative braking. It's not really possible to hold the accelerator pedal at the exact position where you are not applying motor power but also have 0kW of regen braking, certainly for any extended period of time. If your point is that someone could make an EV to which regen braking contributes no more to tire wear than an ICE vehicle, you're correct. Unfortunately, no such EVs are currently manufactured. Even the ones that allow you to "turn off" regen braking will generally apply 1-2kW of regen if your foot is off the accelerator.
  - YZF 9mo ago
    But ICE vehicles can be in engine breaking mode. You pretty much never "coast" (e.g. put the vehicle in neutral or hold the clutch in). I get what you're saying but it feels like it's way in the margin if an effect at all. Do you have some reference? People keep talking about tire wear but my model 3 tires (which are relatively high performance soft tires) aren't wearing any faster than the wear I used to get on my Subaru before. I just don't drive aggressively. Flooring the accelerator must be the big difference. I don't think the weight difference is that large, certainly compared to trucks.

kalaksi 9mo ago

ICE cars also require large and heavy trucks to transport fuel around constantly.

darknavi 9mo ago
ICE cars also often leak all sorts of liquids onto roadways (and thus into our water ways).