5 ms·

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways exper

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

catgary 9mo ago
EVs should do much better on brake dust thanks to regenerative braking, no?
- Espressosaurus 9mo ago
  But heavier so worse on the tires. It isn’t intuitive that they’d be better off, and they might be worse on this particular dimension.
  - stevenjgarner 9mo ago
    Yes current EVs are heavy. It's not at all clear that this will prevail as solid state batteries evolve to become standard. It is highly possible that EVs will soon be lighter than comparable ICE vehicles [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46505975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46505975
    - usui 9mo ago
      No no no. Sure, there might be a future where solid state batteries become the standard for electric vehicles, but you cannot link to Donut Lab's announcement from this month. There is no credible evidence they've achieved the holy grail of batteries so far until they actually deliver these motorcycles in hand and people independently verify them.
      - nevi-me 9mo ago
        Time will tell on their battery, especially if the bike they're putting it on delivers. I think the overall point could be that there's active R&D in trying to find geopolitically sustainable materials, and lowering the weight of materials used.
dgacmu 9mo ago
It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/41-EIT-Emissions-Report-5a-Digital-1.pdf https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4...
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
  Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have an engine for harsh winter days, power outages, and you have 600 miles EPA range on gas for sudden road trips. People are really sleeping on hybrids. Even a used non-plug-in Prius will get 50 city and 50 highway MPG. No gas sedan can do that.
  - wilg 9mo ago
    Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars.
  - jamescrowley 9mo ago
    Unfortunately most people's actual usage patterns for plug-in hybrids appear to make them worse than just a straight up ICE - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
  - rswail 9mo ago
    PHEVs are a very interim solution. There are some advantages while range anxiety is an issue. Yes, EVs have a weight penalty of ~250-500kg of battery currently. Battery technology is rapidly advancing, when Na-ion batteries are introduced more widely, the whole range anxiety issue will become moot, because a recharge will take as long as refueling an ICE vehicle. The weight difference will also start to reduce, both due to newer batteries, but also moving to lighter weight construction and increased use of alternatives to steel. Arguing for ICE technology in 2025 is like Blackberry/Nokia users complaining about the loss of keyboards & T9 texting.
MetaWhirledPeas 9mo ago
> Nobody studies this > Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard. They don't study it, but you're worried about it? I'm curious to know why these things in particular (brake dust and rubber tires) are on the radar. (And a quick search shows that people do study this.)
thelastgallon 9mo ago
The best solution is to build walking or biking environments. This was discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43672779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43672779 (saving a click) We need to start taxing vehicles based on the damage they are responsible for. The 4th Power Law is a principle in road engineering that states that the damage a vehicle causes to a road surface is proportional to the fourth power of its axle load. This means that even small increases in axle load can cause exponentially greater damage to the road. A Prius causes about 50,000 times more damage than a bicycle. A truck causes 16 billion times more damage than a bicycle. A truck causes 31,000 times more damage than a Prius. The solution is to tax trucks 31,000 times more than cars. Improve walking/biking/trains/public transportation. Private cars should be a luxury which is made a necessity with zoning laws.
- cyberax 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - andreime 9mo ago
    That's a ... take.
  - kfarr 9mo ago
    > "Walking and biking environments result in ghettoes" I must admit this viewpoint is one I have never seen before! Instead I've heard many arguments that bike lanes and pedestrianization are forms of gentrification, but resulting "ghettoes?" +1 for creativity!
    - cyberax 9mo ago
      Yes? Bikes are an incredibly segregating means of transport. They are inherently limited in range, and they are largely incompatible with any other transit mode. So you create an environment where all the housing within bike range from good jobs is unaffordable for most people. And the most democratic mode of transport? Cars. They provide far greater accessibility.
montalbano 9mo ago
>> Nobody studies this Tire dust has been studied for decades and the most recent research I've seen suggests the issues are less concerning than previously estimated. https://www.ch.cam.ac.uk/news/illusion-truth-surrounds-inaccurate-tyre-pollution-figures https://www.ch.cam.ac.uk/news/illusion-truth-surrounds-inacc... Brake dust is significantly reduced by EVs: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/do-electric-vehicles-produce-more-tyre-and-brake-pollution-than-petrol-and/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/do-electri...
andrepd 9mo ago
I want the future to focus on things that actually solve the massive problems that come from mass use of automobiles: I want bike paths and trains. Yes, so boring compared to EVs I know! And so cheap! And no catchy names like "gigafactory" for making cities bikable, or turning parking lots into children's playgrounds.

catgary 9mo ago

EVs should do much better on brake dust thanks to regenerative braking, no?

Espressosaurus 9mo ago
But heavier so worse on the tires. It isn’t intuitive that they’d be better off, and they might be worse on this particular dimension.
- stevenjgarner 9mo ago
  Yes current EVs are heavy. It's not at all clear that this will prevail as solid state batteries evolve to become standard. It is highly possible that EVs will soon be lighter than comparable ICE vehicles [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46505975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46505975
  - usui 9mo ago
    No no no. Sure, there might be a future where solid state batteries become the standard for electric vehicles, but you cannot link to Donut Lab's announcement from this month. There is no credible evidence they've achieved the holy grail of batteries so far until they actually deliver these motorcycles in hand and people independently verify them.
    - nevi-me 9mo ago
      Time will tell on their battery, especially if the bike they're putting it on delivers. I think the overall point could be that there's active R&D in trying to find geopolitically sustainable materials, and lowering the weight of materials used.

dgacmu 9mo ago

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/41-EIT-Emissions-Report-5a-Digital-1.pdf https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4...

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have an engine for harsh winter days, power outages, and you have 600 miles EPA range on gas for sudden road trips. People are really sleeping on hybrids. Even a used non-plug-in Prius will get 50 city and 50 highway MPG. No gas sedan can do that.
- wilg 9mo ago
  Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars.
- jamescrowley 9mo ago
  Unfortunately most people's actual usage patterns for plug-in hybrids appear to make them worse than just a straight up ICE - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
- rswail 9mo ago
  PHEVs are a very interim solution. There are some advantages while range anxiety is an issue. Yes, EVs have a weight penalty of ~250-500kg of battery currently. Battery technology is rapidly advancing, when Na-ion batteries are introduced more widely, the whole range anxiety issue will become moot, because a recharge will take as long as refueling an ICE vehicle. The weight difference will also start to reduce, both due to newer batteries, but also moving to lighter weight construction and increased use of alternatives to steel. Arguing for ICE technology in 2025 is like Blackberry/Nokia users complaining about the loss of keyboards & T9 texting.

MetaWhirledPeas 9mo ago

> Nobody studies this > Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard. They don't study it, but you're worried about it? I'm curious to know why these things in particular (brake dust and rubber tires) are on the radar. (And a quick search shows that people do study this.)

thelastgallon 9mo ago

The best solution is to build walking or biking environments. This was discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43672779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43672779 (saving a click) We need to start taxing vehicles based on the damage they are responsible for. The 4th Power Law is a principle in road engineering that states that the damage a vehicle causes to a road surface is proportional to the fourth power of its axle load. This means that even small increases in axle load can cause exponentially greater damage to the road. A Prius causes about 50,000 times more damage than a bicycle. A truck causes 16 billion times more damage than a bicycle. A truck causes 31,000 times more damage than a Prius. The solution is to tax trucks 31,000 times more than cars. Improve walking/biking/trains/public transportation. Private cars should be a luxury which is made a necessity with zoning laws.

cyberax 9mo ago
[flagged]
- andreime 9mo ago
  That's a ... take.
- kfarr 9mo ago
  > "Walking and biking environments result in ghettoes" I must admit this viewpoint is one I have never seen before! Instead I've heard many arguments that bike lanes and pedestrianization are forms of gentrification, but resulting "ghettoes?" +1 for creativity!
  - cyberax 9mo ago
    Yes? Bikes are an incredibly segregating means of transport. They are inherently limited in range, and they are largely incompatible with any other transit mode. So you create an environment where all the housing within bike range from good jobs is unaffordable for most people. And the most democratic mode of transport? Cars. They provide far greater accessibility.

montalbano 9mo ago

>> Nobody studies this Tire dust has been studied for decades and the most recent research I've seen suggests the issues are less concerning than previously estimated. https://www.ch.cam.ac.uk/news/illusion-truth-surrounds-inaccurate-tyre-pollution-figures https://www.ch.cam.ac.uk/news/illusion-truth-surrounds-inacc... Brake dust is significantly reduced by EVs: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/do-electric-vehicles-produce-more-tyre-and-brake-pollution-than-petrol-and/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/do-electri...

andrepd 9mo ago

I want the future to focus on things that actually solve the massive problems that come from mass use of automobiles: I want bike paths and trains. Yes, so boring compared to EVs I know! And so cheap! And no catchy names like "gigafactory" for making cities bikable, or turning parking lots into children's playgrounds.