6 ms·

Bicycles do not have software to install a kill switch. They do not have license plates to be read by surveillance cameras. They do not require costly insurance

Bicycles do not have software to install a kill switch. They do not have license plates to be read by surveillance cameras. They do not require costly insurance to legally ride. They are not powered by fossil fuels. Buy a bike. Learn to maintain it. Advocate for safe biking infrastructure in your area.

mhurron 9mo ago
Bicycles are also not a viable replacement for almost all the uses of a vehicle. None of this advice is useful.
- alistairSH 9mo ago
  Beg to differ, they're viable for basically all local use cases... Groceries? Yep. School? Yep. Commuting? Yep. Etc. They aren't viable for hauling multi-ton loads, or covering long distances, that's about it.
  - newsoftheday 9mo ago
    Not in Texas, they're not viable for most uses, the parent commenter is completely correct. The same is true for many states in the US, perhaps even most of the US.
    - uriegas 9mo ago
      Agree. Texas is pretty bad. In most places you cannot exist without a car. No wonder Mcallen is the most obese city the US.
      - lapetitejort 9mo ago
        Hence the last sentence of my post: > Advocate for safe biking infrastructure in your area. We built dangerous highways. We can build bikeways as well.
  - willk 9mo ago
    Depends on where you live. I live in the sticks. 2 hour rides to the store on a windy road isn't really viable. Moreover, time is a limited resource. Even adding 15 minutes here and there take away time I would have to spend with family, work on a project, etc.
    - iamnothere 9mo ago
      Exactly. I love bikes and live near a grocery store, but unfortunately getting to that store (or anywhere really) requires a few minutes of travel on a dangerously busy highway. It’s not safe to bike that road regularly. I once lived somewhere that was half an hour from the store by car. Thankfully that isn’t the case anymore.
      - brewdad 9mo ago
        My in-laws live in a place like that. It's a gorgeous property but day to day errands are a challenge. I also fear the day one of them needs immediate medical care. The nearest urgent care is 20 minutes away and the nearest ER is at least 45 minutes away.
  - thangalin 9mo ago
    > that's about it. Avid cyclist here. * Extreme Weather: Severe heat, heavy snow, or torrential rain can make biking unsafe or impractical without specialized gear and high physical endurance. * Accessibility & Mobility Issues: Individuals with certain physical disabilities or chronic health conditions may find traditional cycling impossible. (This also affects an aging population.) * Time Constraints: For those with "trip-chaining" needs (e.g., daycare drop-off → work → grocery store → gym), the extra time required for cycling can be prohibitive. * Infrastructure: Older adults are more sensitive to "heavy traffic" and "lack of safe places." Seniors don't stop cycling because they can't do it, but because they don't feel safe in traffic. (Good argument for upgrading roadways.) * Care-giving: When parents become dependent on their children, often the children need to shuttle their parents around. A parent with dementia who escaped into the neighbourhood can be rapidly collected and ushered home in a car, not so much a bike. * Theft & Vandalism: I've never had a car stolen. Two locked bikes, on the other hand...
    - stonogo 9mo ago
      Severe heat, heavy snow, or torrential rain can make driving a car unsafe as well. Individuals with certain disabilities, chronic health conditions, or a plethora of age may also find driving impossible. For those with "trip-chaining" needs, extra time required for parking cars can be prohibitive. Old people don't like traffic and can escape and run away so fast you have to drive them back? And you're seriously including the idea that car theft is not a concern? These are some tortured arguments. The correct argument here is "if bicycles become the dominant transportation mode, then the government will absolutely mandate kill switches for them too." "Bicycles don't have software" hasn't been true for years. E-bikes and wireless deraillers have been around a long time.
      - lapetitejort 9mo ago
        Bikes without software will be around for the foreseeable future. They're the cheapest and most plentiful version of bike. In the unlikely scenario that all bikes somehow become electric, old bikes are much easier to maintain than old cars. My argument to my own post is that cameras that track cars and license plates could easily be reconfigured to track bikes and pedestrians. In that case there's no transportation mode that will save you from surveillance. The cameras have to go.
- wincy 9mo ago
  I dunno, I live in what most people would call peak Suburbia and have all sorts of bike trails I didn’t even know existed until I got the electric assisted bike, I can range 5 miles away from my house in any direction without having to be on any major roads, and have a trailer for doing grocery shopping. I went 15 miles away and back one time but took quite awhile. All the grocery stores I frequent are within this range. When it’s warm out, I use my bike for probably 90% of my trips out of the house.
  - seattle_spring 9mo ago
    Your situation is very much the exception and not the norm in most of the US, suburban or not.
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      The exception is that he uses those bike lanes for shopping, not just exercise. Every suburb has plenty of great biking space (the streets are not busy!), but nobody thinks to try to use them that way.
- _verandaguy 9mo ago
  What? A vehicle (presumably a car, since bikes are vehicles too) gets you and your stuff from point A to point B. Bikes do that too, though at a smaller scale. If your commute or your errands aren't excessively long or require the use of a controlled-access highway, a bike's a perfectly fine alternative. The limiting factors are seasonal road or bike path maintenance and the discipline of other road users.
- uriegas 9mo ago
  Transportation influences urban development. That is why most houses have a garage. There is no such thing as private transport (streets are public). Transportation has been heavily centralized since the New Deal. The bicycle was okay for most people living in cities in the 30s, now it is not because the government has favored the car infrastructure over the last decades. I think we need to start with not letting government develop their big infrastructure projects which are not resilient. Advocating for the use of bicycles might make sense in some places yet bicycle infrastructure is required.
  - newsoftheday 9mo ago
    > the government has favored the car infrastructure over the last decades It was a combination of federal push for highways and consumer demand for greater distance and easier travel.
    - iamnothere 9mo ago
      Also, federal highways are partially a national security issue, and are designed for quickly moving military equipment across otherwise isolated areas. Guidelines for federal interstates are specified jointly with the DoD to ensure that military transport can fit under bridges, and that bridges can support their weight. Industry is the other most important user, while individual consumers/families are the least considered users. Everyone always assumes that individual choices and consumer behavior drives this stuff, and then they wonder why nothing changes even though we all started using reusable tote bags and LED bulbs. Stop blaming the consumer! (The DoD is the largest institutional polluter in the world, by the way.)
      - uriegas 9mo ago
        That is very interesting. It is funny to see how influential the federal government has been on society, infrastructure and other areas of life. Specially considering that some people opposed to it during the confederation period because they saw it as another centralized authority (anti-federalist papers).
      - 9mo ago
- recursive 9mo ago
  Almost all? I think most car trips could have been bike trips.
  - DauntingPear7 9mo ago
    This, from what I can recall seeing about average car trip distance, is actually correct. (Excluding you rural people, but depending on your city could be true if people had smaller lots and denser less car centric business areas, or more businesses in general)
- smohare 9mo ago
  [dead]
iamnothere 9mo ago
Sure, buy a bike. AND buy an older (but maintainable) vehicle for hauling, transporting multiple people, and traveling long distances. It’s not either or.
- horsawlarway 9mo ago
  Entirely this. I have a wonderful cargo bike (urban arrow - splurge purchase for my 35th birthday and second kid) - I use it for most in-city transportation tasks, including picking up kids from daycare/school, groceries, trips to restaurants, etc. I also have a 2011 truck with ~200k miles on it. It's well take care of, and shows no signs of stopping any time soon. It hauls stuff from home improvement stores, help family move, and takes us on vacation. I've been debating getting bumper stickers for each of them along the lines of: "My other ebike is a truck" - for the bike and "My other truck is an ebike" - for the truck
  - ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
    I wish I had the use for a cargo bike. They're so cool.
- bluGill 9mo ago
  I had such an older vehicle until a couple weeks ago when the fuel tank supports rusted to the point the tank wasn't supported. There was just more maintenance needed than I had time to do - it would cost about what I paid for a modern 3 year old vehicle just to get it running and who knows what it will need next year from parts I wouldn't replace. (the new car is also electric so much cheaper to drive, though it doesn't have the capacity of the 1 ton truck it replaced so I'm stuck when I need that)
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Just be aware that newer vehicles often have more things that can and will fail, and parts seem less standardized these days, so you may not be able to keep it running past the expected service lifetime. Older vehicles (depending on the platform) often use common parts that are shared even across manufacturers. And third party manufacturers keep cranking out new stock for them. I am hoping that this type of system develops for simple no-frills electric vehicles over time. Although laws like the one mentioned here keep piling up, increasing vehicle complexity and cost of maintenance.
dlcarrier 9mo ago
A city near me (Davis, CA) requires all bicycles to have a license and can confiscate unlicensed bicycles.
- wahern 9mo ago
  As of 2023 municipalities and counties can no longer mandate bicycle registration. (See https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-16-7/section-39002/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-16... as amended by sec. 7 at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1909 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...) Though universities, like UC Davis, might still be able to require it for bikes on campus. I hadn't heard of the requirement before. Mandatory registration originally seems to have been intended to address bike theft. All bicycles sold in California must have a serial number. A significant number of cities (most?) had ordinances requiring registration. But few people knew about it and even fewer registered their bikes.
digiown 9mo ago
I'm puzzled why there is so little emphasis on prioritizing bikes and other means of non-licensed transport among libertarians. Driving consents you to various things like forced ID checks, drug tests, and sometimes searches, and cars are relatively easy to track down compared to humans. In effect, car-centrism reduces civil liberties as it necessitates licensing for participating in society. And no, privatizing everything will not improve it. It will just make it worse since you'd be forced to allow insurance companies to track you to be allowed into private roads, etc.

mhurron 9mo ago

Bicycles are also not a viable replacement for almost all the uses of a vehicle. None of this advice is useful.

alistairSH 9mo ago
Beg to differ, they're viable for basically all local use cases... Groceries? Yep. School? Yep. Commuting? Yep. Etc. They aren't viable for hauling multi-ton loads, or covering long distances, that's about it.
- newsoftheday 9mo ago
  Not in Texas, they're not viable for most uses, the parent commenter is completely correct. The same is true for many states in the US, perhaps even most of the US.
  - uriegas 9mo ago
    Agree. Texas is pretty bad. In most places you cannot exist without a car. No wonder Mcallen is the most obese city the US.
    - lapetitejort 9mo ago
      Hence the last sentence of my post: > Advocate for safe biking infrastructure in your area. We built dangerous highways. We can build bikeways as well.
- willk 9mo ago
  Depends on where you live. I live in the sticks. 2 hour rides to the store on a windy road isn't really viable. Moreover, time is a limited resource. Even adding 15 minutes here and there take away time I would have to spend with family, work on a project, etc.
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Exactly. I love bikes and live near a grocery store, but unfortunately getting to that store (or anywhere really) requires a few minutes of travel on a dangerously busy highway. It’s not safe to bike that road regularly. I once lived somewhere that was half an hour from the store by car. Thankfully that isn’t the case anymore.
    - brewdad 9mo ago
      My in-laws live in a place like that. It's a gorgeous property but day to day errands are a challenge. I also fear the day one of them needs immediate medical care. The nearest urgent care is 20 minutes away and the nearest ER is at least 45 minutes away.
- thangalin 9mo ago
  > that's about it. Avid cyclist here. * Extreme Weather: Severe heat, heavy snow, or torrential rain can make biking unsafe or impractical without specialized gear and high physical endurance. * Accessibility & Mobility Issues: Individuals with certain physical disabilities or chronic health conditions may find traditional cycling impossible. (This also affects an aging population.) * Time Constraints: For those with "trip-chaining" needs (e.g., daycare drop-off → work → grocery store → gym), the extra time required for cycling can be prohibitive. * Infrastructure: Older adults are more sensitive to "heavy traffic" and "lack of safe places." Seniors don't stop cycling because they can't do it, but because they don't feel safe in traffic. (Good argument for upgrading roadways.) * Care-giving: When parents become dependent on their children, often the children need to shuttle their parents around. A parent with dementia who escaped into the neighbourhood can be rapidly collected and ushered home in a car, not so much a bike. * Theft & Vandalism: I've never had a car stolen. Two locked bikes, on the other hand...
  - stonogo 9mo ago
    Severe heat, heavy snow, or torrential rain can make driving a car unsafe as well. Individuals with certain disabilities, chronic health conditions, or a plethora of age may also find driving impossible. For those with "trip-chaining" needs, extra time required for parking cars can be prohibitive. Old people don't like traffic and can escape and run away so fast you have to drive them back? And you're seriously including the idea that car theft is not a concern? These are some tortured arguments. The correct argument here is "if bicycles become the dominant transportation mode, then the government will absolutely mandate kill switches for them too." "Bicycles don't have software" hasn't been true for years. E-bikes and wireless deraillers have been around a long time.
    - lapetitejort 9mo ago
      Bikes without software will be around for the foreseeable future. They're the cheapest and most plentiful version of bike. In the unlikely scenario that all bikes somehow become electric, old bikes are much easier to maintain than old cars. My argument to my own post is that cameras that track cars and license plates could easily be reconfigured to track bikes and pedestrians. In that case there's no transportation mode that will save you from surveillance. The cameras have to go.
wincy 9mo ago
I dunno, I live in what most people would call peak Suburbia and have all sorts of bike trails I didn’t even know existed until I got the electric assisted bike, I can range 5 miles away from my house in any direction without having to be on any major roads, and have a trailer for doing grocery shopping. I went 15 miles away and back one time but took quite awhile. All the grocery stores I frequent are within this range. When it’s warm out, I use my bike for probably 90% of my trips out of the house.
- seattle_spring 9mo ago
  Your situation is very much the exception and not the norm in most of the US, suburban or not.
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    The exception is that he uses those bike lanes for shopping, not just exercise. Every suburb has plenty of great biking space (the streets are not busy!), but nobody thinks to try to use them that way.
_verandaguy 9mo ago
What? A vehicle (presumably a car, since bikes are vehicles too) gets you and your stuff from point A to point B. Bikes do that too, though at a smaller scale. If your commute or your errands aren't excessively long or require the use of a controlled-access highway, a bike's a perfectly fine alternative. The limiting factors are seasonal road or bike path maintenance and the discipline of other road users.
uriegas 9mo ago
Transportation influences urban development. That is why most houses have a garage. There is no such thing as private transport (streets are public). Transportation has been heavily centralized since the New Deal. The bicycle was okay for most people living in cities in the 30s, now it is not because the government has favored the car infrastructure over the last decades. I think we need to start with not letting government develop their big infrastructure projects which are not resilient. Advocating for the use of bicycles might make sense in some places yet bicycle infrastructure is required.
- newsoftheday 9mo ago
  > the government has favored the car infrastructure over the last decades It was a combination of federal push for highways and consumer demand for greater distance and easier travel.
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Also, federal highways are partially a national security issue, and are designed for quickly moving military equipment across otherwise isolated areas. Guidelines for federal interstates are specified jointly with the DoD to ensure that military transport can fit under bridges, and that bridges can support their weight. Industry is the other most important user, while individual consumers/families are the least considered users. Everyone always assumes that individual choices and consumer behavior drives this stuff, and then they wonder why nothing changes even though we all started using reusable tote bags and LED bulbs. Stop blaming the consumer! (The DoD is the largest institutional polluter in the world, by the way.)
    - uriegas 9mo ago
      That is very interesting. It is funny to see how influential the federal government has been on society, infrastructure and other areas of life. Specially considering that some people opposed to it during the confederation period because they saw it as another centralized authority (anti-federalist papers).
    - 9mo ago
recursive 9mo ago
Almost all? I think most car trips could have been bike trips.
- DauntingPear7 9mo ago
  This, from what I can recall seeing about average car trip distance, is actually correct. (Excluding you rural people, but depending on your city could be true if people had smaller lots and denser less car centric business areas, or more businesses in general)
smohare 9mo ago
[dead]

iamnothere 9mo ago

Sure, buy a bike. AND buy an older (but maintainable) vehicle for hauling, transporting multiple people, and traveling long distances. It’s not either or.

horsawlarway 9mo ago
Entirely this. I have a wonderful cargo bike (urban arrow - splurge purchase for my 35th birthday and second kid) - I use it for most in-city transportation tasks, including picking up kids from daycare/school, groceries, trips to restaurants, etc. I also have a 2011 truck with ~200k miles on it. It's well take care of, and shows no signs of stopping any time soon. It hauls stuff from home improvement stores, help family move, and takes us on vacation. I've been debating getting bumper stickers for each of them along the lines of: "My other ebike is a truck" - for the bike and "My other truck is an ebike" - for the truck
- ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
  I wish I had the use for a cargo bike. They're so cool.
bluGill 9mo ago
I had such an older vehicle until a couple weeks ago when the fuel tank supports rusted to the point the tank wasn't supported. There was just more maintenance needed than I had time to do - it would cost about what I paid for a modern 3 year old vehicle just to get it running and who knows what it will need next year from parts I wouldn't replace. (the new car is also electric so much cheaper to drive, though it doesn't have the capacity of the 1 ton truck it replaced so I'm stuck when I need that)
- iamnothere 9mo ago
  Just be aware that newer vehicles often have more things that can and will fail, and parts seem less standardized these days, so you may not be able to keep it running past the expected service lifetime. Older vehicles (depending on the platform) often use common parts that are shared even across manufacturers. And third party manufacturers keep cranking out new stock for them. I am hoping that this type of system develops for simple no-frills electric vehicles over time. Although laws like the one mentioned here keep piling up, increasing vehicle complexity and cost of maintenance.

dlcarrier 9mo ago

A city near me (Davis, CA) requires all bicycles to have a license and can confiscate unlicensed bicycles.

wahern 9mo ago
As of 2023 municipalities and counties can no longer mandate bicycle registration. (See https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-16-7/section-39002/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-16... as amended by sec. 7 at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1909 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...) Though universities, like UC Davis, might still be able to require it for bikes on campus. I hadn't heard of the requirement before. Mandatory registration originally seems to have been intended to address bike theft. All bicycles sold in California must have a serial number. A significant number of cities (most?) had ordinances requiring registration. But few people knew about it and even fewer registered their bikes.

digiown 9mo ago

I'm puzzled why there is so little emphasis on prioritizing bikes and other means of non-licensed transport among libertarians. Driving consents you to various things like forced ID checks, drug tests, and sometimes searches, and cars are relatively easy to track down compared to humans. In effect, car-centrism reduces civil liberties as it necessitates licensing for participating in society. And no, privatizing everything will not improve it. It will just make it worse since you'd be forced to allow insurance companies to track you to be allowed into private roads, etc.