6 ms·

More evidence that Carney’s speech marks the end of American global “leadership”

by ks2048 9mo ago

jacquesm 9mo ago
I didn't need Carney's speech to mark that, Jan 6 2025 was the date.
- pstuart 9mo ago
  I'd posit that Jan 20 2017 marked the beginning of the end. It's a daily challenge to keep track and not spiral into despair. It's not just that one man, it's that so many citizens love him. It truly boggles the mind.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    It does indeed, and I agree that is a good alternative date but a lot of people still had the excuse that they did not know how bad it could get. For the re-run they knew exactly what to expect and still voted for it.
    - istjohn 9mo ago
      It can always get worse, and it has.
      - jacquesm 9mo ago
        Prediction: it will get worse still.
        pstuart 9mo ago
        I wish you were wrong but you aren't. The big question is how far until we bottom out, and what does "recovery" look like. The fact that the political divide has grown so that realities do not converge is rather terrifying.
        jacquesm 9mo ago
        The scala of possible outcomes here is so broad it is terrifying. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that it will remain contained but I think we are already seeing plenty of evidence that will not be the case.
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    December 12, 2000. The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. Who might have chosen differently about invading Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm sure Gore would have made mistakes, but it's hard to see a path where he wasn't a better president (for the US and for the world) than W Bush.
    - myrmidon 9mo ago
      Completeley agree. It's such a stark contrast between Bush senior and junior, too-- GWB put the US on such a bad trajectory (middle east interventionism, surveillance state, etc.), altough 9/11 probably deserves a lot of blame for it. I also blame the republicans for turning elections more and more into polarized shit slinging personalized attacks instead of policy based arguments, and I'd argue that this really took off in the Clinton era, and then got really bad under Obama/Trump.
      - pstuart 9mo ago
        I think that in the scheme of things GHWB was the most qualified and "best" of their offerings I've seen in my many years.
      - boogieknite 9mo ago
        mccain seemed quite respectable and i liked the spirit of his campaign reform efforts. they were probably more strategic than altruistic. on the other hand palin seems like shed fit right in with the clown show conservatives trot out now
    - pstuart 9mo ago
      Yep. He made a mistake in conceding as he could have won that battle: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections200...
      - ethbr1 9mo ago
        Yes and no. It would have been corrosive to democracy to fight too hard. Gore cared more about the country than his own ambition. See: Trump
ta9000 9mo ago
[flagged]
- ottah 9mo ago
  I mean, I like living in the country that everyone wants to come to for an education and work. We're giving that up.
  - ta9000 9mo ago
    Did you vote for this mess? I sure didn’t, I live in a state with almost 50 million people and feel like we’re powerless to stop this nonsense.
  - Gud 9mo ago
    Not everyone wants to come to the US, get real. There is no way I would leave Europe for the US. Absolutely zero chance. And that's not even considering the direction the US is heading, I mean in it's current state.
    - croon 9mo ago
      Its current state is worse than a year ago and even worse than 10 years ago, etc. As a fellow European, it's a fact that the US for many decades have attracted global top talent for both universities and industry. That definitely hit a hard reversal during the current term with the war on universities/education as well as immigration policies though. I'm not sure you're disagreeing with GP.
    - ottah 9mo ago
      Pedantic
- Barrin92 9mo ago
  no offense but the US spent about a billion on the WHO. That's a lot of influence for chump change. US defense sits at only 3% of GDP compared to 8% during the height of the cold war. The argument always seems to be that the US is getting these rough deals, but objectively what it has spent the last few years be it in terms of soft power for organizations like this or in weapons to Ukraine, a few decades ago people would have opened champagne bottles getting that much bang for your buck. This is British "the EU is stealing your NHS money" stuff, like it doesn't work at a basic level of arithmetics. What's driving spending in the US is entitlements, literally a straight line up

More evidence that Carney’s speech marks the end of American global “leadership”

by ks2048 9mo ago

More evidence that Carney’s speech marks the end of American global “leadership”

jacquesm 9mo ago

I didn't need Carney's speech to mark that, Jan 6 2025 was the date.

pstuart 9mo ago
I'd posit that Jan 20 2017 marked the beginning of the end. It's a daily challenge to keep track and not spiral into despair. It's not just that one man, it's that so many citizens love him. It truly boggles the mind.
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  It does indeed, and I agree that is a good alternative date but a lot of people still had the excuse that they did not know how bad it could get. For the re-run they knew exactly what to expect and still voted for it.
  - istjohn 9mo ago
    It can always get worse, and it has.
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      Prediction: it will get worse still.
      - pstuart 9mo ago
        I wish you were wrong but you aren't. The big question is how far until we bottom out, and what does "recovery" look like. The fact that the political divide has grown so that realities do not converge is rather terrifying.
        jacquesm 9mo ago
        The scala of possible outcomes here is so broad it is terrifying. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that it will remain contained but I think we are already seeing plenty of evidence that will not be the case.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  December 12, 2000. The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change. Who might have chosen differently about invading Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm sure Gore would have made mistakes, but it's hard to see a path where he wasn't a better president (for the US and for the world) than W Bush.
  - myrmidon 9mo ago
    Completeley agree. It's such a stark contrast between Bush senior and junior, too-- GWB put the US on such a bad trajectory (middle east interventionism, surveillance state, etc.), altough 9/11 probably deserves a lot of blame for it. I also blame the republicans for turning elections more and more into polarized shit slinging personalized attacks instead of policy based arguments, and I'd argue that this really took off in the Clinton era, and then got really bad under Obama/Trump.
    - pstuart 9mo ago
      I think that in the scheme of things GHWB was the most qualified and "best" of their offerings I've seen in my many years.
    - boogieknite 9mo ago
      mccain seemed quite respectable and i liked the spirit of his campaign reform efforts. they were probably more strategic than altruistic. on the other hand palin seems like shed fit right in with the clown show conservatives trot out now
  - pstuart 9mo ago
    Yep. He made a mistake in conceding as he could have won that battle: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections200...
    - ethbr1 9mo ago
      Yes and no. It would have been corrosive to democracy to fight too hard. Gore cared more about the country than his own ambition. See: Trump

ta9000 9mo ago

[flagged]

ottah 9mo ago
I mean, I like living in the country that everyone wants to come to for an education and work. We're giving that up.
- ta9000 9mo ago
  Did you vote for this mess? I sure didn’t, I live in a state with almost 50 million people and feel like we’re powerless to stop this nonsense.
- Gud 9mo ago
  Not everyone wants to come to the US, get real. There is no way I would leave Europe for the US. Absolutely zero chance. And that's not even considering the direction the US is heading, I mean in it's current state.
  - croon 9mo ago
    Its current state is worse than a year ago and even worse than 10 years ago, etc. As a fellow European, it's a fact that the US for many decades have attracted global top talent for both universities and industry. That definitely hit a hard reversal during the current term with the war on universities/education as well as immigration policies though. I'm not sure you're disagreeing with GP.
  - ottah 9mo ago
    Pedantic
Barrin92 9mo ago
no offense but the US spent about a billion on the WHO. That's a lot of influence for chump change. US defense sits at only 3% of GDP compared to 8% during the height of the cold war. The argument always seems to be that the US is getting these rough deals, but objectively what it has spent the last few years be it in terms of soft power for organizations like this or in weapons to Ukraine, a few decades ago people would have opened champagne bottles getting that much bang for your buck. This is British "the EU is stealing your NHS money" stuff, like it doesn't work at a basic level of arithmetics. What's driving spending in the US is entitlements, literally a straight line up