7 ms·

Capitalone is going to need something to make up for switching all their debit cards from MasterCard to Discover

by LgWoodenBadger 9mo ago

weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
Who in the world uses debit cards
- apparent 9mo ago
  People who don't have credit? I used a debit card at one point, though I don't anymore. But also, they're looking at moving their credit cards to Discover as well, which would make huge waves (both in the credit card/banking world, and for their customers, who would probably find it very annoying).
  - johnebgd 9mo ago
    I’d just drop them.
  - xp84 9mo ago
    I suspect the play they're making is that putting millions of new Discover cards out there will be a tipping point, pressuring the remaining merchants who don't take it, as a play to break the Visa/MC duopoly. This could be not that hard to pull off. American Express historically was less accepted because of their high fees, but I don't think Discover has or had that problem.
    - pc86 9mo ago
      Maybe I just don't use it enough but I can really only remember one time in the last ~15 years that I've tried to use my Discover card and been told they don't take Discover. I wonder if there's a geographical component, or if certain industries are less likely to take anything other than Visa/MC?
      - sgerenser 9mo ago
        There is a geographic component. Outside the U.S. acceptance of Discover is not nearly as universal as in the U.S. So much so that in the letter that accompanied the new Discover debit cards they sent out, they had something to the effect of “maybe you should bring a backup card” if you were planning on using it internationally.
        xp84 9mo ago
        Ooh, I definitely wouldn't blame people for being sore about that aspect. They should make a card with a second chip on the other end (that will only be approved if used abroad) so that you can still use an ATM on a trip.
- Twisol 9mo ago
  Setting your incredulity aside, I'm curious why you think using a debit card would be so shocking. I effectively don't use a credit card at all: I use a debit card (or an equivalent Apple Pay representation thereof) exclusively. From my perspective, if I want something and I have the money, I'll pay for it. If I want something and I don't have the money, I won't pay for it. I don't often want things outside my budget (and I am not well-off, as a grad student), so I don't often feel any pressure to amortize the purchase over time with a credit card. And I prefer that state of affairs, because I don't want to get in the habit of using someone else's money if I can't afford to pay them back. This isn't a value judgment on people who do use credit cards. There are plenty of reasons why using a credit card by default would be appropriate, and I'm not shocked to hear of someone who does so. But I am curious where your shock comes from, so I shared my story as a data point.
  - apazzolini 9mo ago
    Because you're leaving 2-3% on the table for every transaction. Using a credit card doesn't mean you can't pay it off in full every month, costing you zero in interest, while taking advantage of reward programs.
    - Twisol 9mo ago
      I have heard this, and it is probably a flaw in my approach to purchases. But is that really justification to ask "who in the world uses debit cards"? I still feel more comfortable not being on the hook to somebody, and the organizations that extend lines of credit don't do so as a prosocial program, certainly. (Just because some people can safely make use of credit doesn't mean everyone can. I know someone who has unfortunately made poor use of their credit card, and I don't necessarily trust myself to avoid a similar fate.)
      - BenjiWiebe 9mo ago
        No, credit card companies aren't giving out rewards at a loss. Better cards have a higher interchange rate, ie the merchant pays more fees to accept a good card. Hence why cash discounts are a thing (and yes they're legal again).
- c2h5oh 9mo ago
  Majority of EU population. Even in US debit is more popular than credit in 18-25 age bracket.
  - xp84 9mo ago
    (Frame of reference: US only) That's a shame, given 18-25 is just the age where a credit card skimmer or online card fraud causing a big fraudulent withdrawal from your checking account, and weeks of waiting to get it back, could be devastating. This has happened to people in my family (likely from gas stations) but we only use credit cards except to pull cash from ATMs, so we only suffer a temporary dip in our available credit line while they investigate and do not have to pay the disputed charges in the meantime. I know people with terrible credit may have problems getting a credit card, and others may have trouble not treating a credit line as spendable beyond their means, but everyone else should keep the 'debit card' at home or at least confined to their wallet.
    - thegrim000 9mo ago
      It's extremely common advice to not keep large sums of cash sitting in your checking account. With capital one (and others) you can just open a free savings account, keep the bulk in there (if you don't want to invest it instead), which earns an actual interest, and then there's never a "big" amount of vulnerable cash sitting in your checking account. There's free/instant transfers between savings and checking when you need to move more into your checking.
      - pants2 9mo ago
        Not a great solution to constantly have to top up your checking account with some amount between "I need this much to pay my bills" and "losing this amount would devastating" which for many people has quite some overlap
        pitaj 9mo ago
        You can pay bills from your savings account with ACH in the US.
- 0xTJ 9mo ago
  I use mine at Costco for purchases over $300 (limit for tap). At least here in Canada, they only accept Mastercard, not Visa, and I don't remember the PIN for my Mastercard.
  - pc86 9mo ago
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that occasionally forgets a PIN then just uses that as an excuse not to use that particular card for a few years.
- moorow 9mo ago
  Nearly every transaction account in Australia now uses a debit card as the access card, usually Visa debit. Some people will have a credit card in addition to that.
- cyberrock 9mo ago
  Other than merchant transactions, the CapitalOne MC card was one of the recommended cards for overseas ATM withdrawal, so the transition to a different network with almost zero international coverage has been very jarring.
  - wyclif 9mo ago
    I'm overseas and have a Capital One MC card which I've never had a problem with regarding ATMs and frictionless payments, so I find this news fairly alarming. Wait—they're planning on killing their MC card and converting all their card accounts to Discover? That doesn't sound good.
- barbazoo 9mo ago
  Not uncommon in Canada as far as I can tell. Lower fees for the merchant which I care about when buying locally.
- Intermernet 9mo ago
  People who don't enjoy debt?
  - weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
    What do credit cards have to do with debt? I've used them for over a decade and never a carried balance
    - yurishimo 9mo ago
      Morally, they're also quite problematic, imo. Even if you aren't paying interest because you pay off the balance every month, CC companies can only offer points and cash back and all of that other stuff on the backs of the customers who aren't able to pay it off every month. It's a subsidy of the financially illiterate to those who are. If the predatory 20%+ interest rates were banned, the points and rewards programs would disappear overnight. I know this isn't popular in the USA, but when compared to the rest of the western world, consumer debt is off the charts insane in America and it doesn't have to be that way. I've lived on both sides of the pond and I much prefer a society where people buy things that they can afford instead of financing everything on the back of a hope and dream that they will for sure pay off the balance this month. As for the "but muh security!!" argument that I can hear someone typing, having a credit card for security is a terrible argument. You should be lobbying your politicians to regulate financial institutions to build better systems that are not susceptible to such obvious exploits and fraud. Again, much of the world has solved this problem to the point where I can post my bank account number on my business website and nothing bad ever happens. Customers can wire me money directly without approval and I have to manually approve all outgoing transactions at least once (scheduled transfers are still possible); it's not rocket science!
      - weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
        In your moral dilemma your assertion is that the credit card companies are only making money off of people who aren't paying off their cards each month which must mean that people like me are costing them money by paying off each month. Since I'm costing these evil companies money then don't I have a moral obligation to continue using my credit card? As for saying that the argument that using credit cards because they have more fraud and security measures is not a good argument because the world should be different is also quite silly and naive since arguments should be made based on how the world currently operates not how you wish it might operate in the future. Life is much easier when you live in reality
- dpc050505 9mo ago
  Using my debit card doesn't force the vendor to send 2-3% of the transaction to a company that's in a country threatening to invade mine in exchange for piss poor rewards.
  - weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
    Europoor?
- seattle_spring 9mo ago
  Anyone who needs to get some cash from an ATM?
al_borland 9mo ago
Yeah, I was pretty unhappy about this. They are already really annoying to use, with a bunch of “offers” popping up every time I open the app.
- tstrimple 9mo ago
  From ING Direct to Capital One Discover. From fuck Wellsfargo, I'll never do business with them again to two of my subsequent mortgages being sold to them over the last 20 years without my consent. This entire world is designed explicitly to fuck people over at literally every turn as long as someone in the chain somewhere can pocket an extra buck.
  - gtowey 9mo ago
    It turns out "vote with your dollars" doesn't work when the same 3 companies own everything.
    - tstrimple 9mo ago
      But surely if we demonstrate just how evil Nestle is just one more time, the rest of humanity will wake up and boycott them and it will be the end of suffering! Crazy to think I was libertarian minded when I was nineteen. Then again, who could actually maintain it much older? We're talking believing in the tooth fairy levels of delusion wrt to its interactions with the real world.

Capitalone is going to need something to make up for switching all their debit cards from MasterCard to Discover

weird-eye-issue 9mo ago

Who in the world uses debit cards

apparent 9mo ago
People who don't have credit? I used a debit card at one point, though I don't anymore. But also, they're looking at moving their credit cards to Discover as well, which would make huge waves (both in the credit card/banking world, and for their customers, who would probably find it very annoying).
- johnebgd 9mo ago
  I’d just drop them.
- xp84 9mo ago
  I suspect the play they're making is that putting millions of new Discover cards out there will be a tipping point, pressuring the remaining merchants who don't take it, as a play to break the Visa/MC duopoly. This could be not that hard to pull off. American Express historically was less accepted because of their high fees, but I don't think Discover has or had that problem.
  - pc86 9mo ago
    Maybe I just don't use it enough but I can really only remember one time in the last ~15 years that I've tried to use my Discover card and been told they don't take Discover. I wonder if there's a geographical component, or if certain industries are less likely to take anything other than Visa/MC?
    - sgerenser 9mo ago
      There is a geographic component. Outside the U.S. acceptance of Discover is not nearly as universal as in the U.S. So much so that in the letter that accompanied the new Discover debit cards they sent out, they had something to the effect of “maybe you should bring a backup card” if you were planning on using it internationally.
      - xp84 9mo ago
        Ooh, I definitely wouldn't blame people for being sore about that aspect. They should make a card with a second chip on the other end (that will only be approved if used abroad) so that you can still use an ATM on a trip.
Twisol 9mo ago
Setting your incredulity aside, I'm curious why you think using a debit card would be so shocking. I effectively don't use a credit card at all: I use a debit card (or an equivalent Apple Pay representation thereof) exclusively. From my perspective, if I want something and I have the money, I'll pay for it. If I want something and I don't have the money, I won't pay for it. I don't often want things outside my budget (and I am not well-off, as a grad student), so I don't often feel any pressure to amortize the purchase over time with a credit card. And I prefer that state of affairs, because I don't want to get in the habit of using someone else's money if I can't afford to pay them back. This isn't a value judgment on people who do use credit cards. There are plenty of reasons why using a credit card by default would be appropriate, and I'm not shocked to hear of someone who does so. But I am curious where your shock comes from, so I shared my story as a data point.
- apazzolini 9mo ago
  Because you're leaving 2-3% on the table for every transaction. Using a credit card doesn't mean you can't pay it off in full every month, costing you zero in interest, while taking advantage of reward programs.
  - Twisol 9mo ago
    I have heard this, and it is probably a flaw in my approach to purchases. But is that really justification to ask "who in the world uses debit cards"? I still feel more comfortable not being on the hook to somebody, and the organizations that extend lines of credit don't do so as a prosocial program, certainly. (Just because some people can safely make use of credit doesn't mean everyone can. I know someone who has unfortunately made poor use of their credit card, and I don't necessarily trust myself to avoid a similar fate.)
    - BenjiWiebe 9mo ago
      No, credit card companies aren't giving out rewards at a loss. Better cards have a higher interchange rate, ie the merchant pays more fees to accept a good card. Hence why cash discounts are a thing (and yes they're legal again).
c2h5oh 9mo ago
Majority of EU population. Even in US debit is more popular than credit in 18-25 age bracket.
- xp84 9mo ago
  (Frame of reference: US only) That's a shame, given 18-25 is just the age where a credit card skimmer or online card fraud causing a big fraudulent withdrawal from your checking account, and weeks of waiting to get it back, could be devastating. This has happened to people in my family (likely from gas stations) but we only use credit cards except to pull cash from ATMs, so we only suffer a temporary dip in our available credit line while they investigate and do not have to pay the disputed charges in the meantime. I know people with terrible credit may have problems getting a credit card, and others may have trouble not treating a credit line as spendable beyond their means, but everyone else should keep the 'debit card' at home or at least confined to their wallet.
  - thegrim000 9mo ago
    It's extremely common advice to not keep large sums of cash sitting in your checking account. With capital one (and others) you can just open a free savings account, keep the bulk in there (if you don't want to invest it instead), which earns an actual interest, and then there's never a "big" amount of vulnerable cash sitting in your checking account. There's free/instant transfers between savings and checking when you need to move more into your checking.
    - pants2 9mo ago
      Not a great solution to constantly have to top up your checking account with some amount between "I need this much to pay my bills" and "losing this amount would devastating" which for many people has quite some overlap
      - pitaj 9mo ago
        You can pay bills from your savings account with ACH in the US.
0xTJ 9mo ago
I use mine at Costco for purchases over $300 (limit for tap). At least here in Canada, they only accept Mastercard, not Visa, and I don't remember the PIN for my Mastercard.
- pc86 9mo ago
  I'm glad I'm not the only one that occasionally forgets a PIN then just uses that as an excuse not to use that particular card for a few years.
moorow 9mo ago
Nearly every transaction account in Australia now uses a debit card as the access card, usually Visa debit. Some people will have a credit card in addition to that.
cyberrock 9mo ago
Other than merchant transactions, the CapitalOne MC card was one of the recommended cards for overseas ATM withdrawal, so the transition to a different network with almost zero international coverage has been very jarring.
- wyclif 9mo ago
  I'm overseas and have a Capital One MC card which I've never had a problem with regarding ATMs and frictionless payments, so I find this news fairly alarming. Wait—they're planning on killing their MC card and converting all their card accounts to Discover? That doesn't sound good.
barbazoo 9mo ago
Not uncommon in Canada as far as I can tell. Lower fees for the merchant which I care about when buying locally.
Intermernet 9mo ago
People who don't enjoy debt?
- weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
  What do credit cards have to do with debt? I've used them for over a decade and never a carried balance
  - yurishimo 9mo ago
    Morally, they're also quite problematic, imo. Even if you aren't paying interest because you pay off the balance every month, CC companies can only offer points and cash back and all of that other stuff on the backs of the customers who aren't able to pay it off every month. It's a subsidy of the financially illiterate to those who are. If the predatory 20%+ interest rates were banned, the points and rewards programs would disappear overnight. I know this isn't popular in the USA, but when compared to the rest of the western world, consumer debt is off the charts insane in America and it doesn't have to be that way. I've lived on both sides of the pond and I much prefer a society where people buy things that they can afford instead of financing everything on the back of a hope and dream that they will for sure pay off the balance this month. As for the "but muh security!!" argument that I can hear someone typing, having a credit card for security is a terrible argument. You should be lobbying your politicians to regulate financial institutions to build better systems that are not susceptible to such obvious exploits and fraud. Again, much of the world has solved this problem to the point where I can post my bank account number on my business website and nothing bad ever happens. Customers can wire me money directly without approval and I have to manually approve all outgoing transactions at least once (scheduled transfers are still possible); it's not rocket science!
    - weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
      In your moral dilemma your assertion is that the credit card companies are only making money off of people who aren't paying off their cards each month which must mean that people like me are costing them money by paying off each month. Since I'm costing these evil companies money then don't I have a moral obligation to continue using my credit card? As for saying that the argument that using credit cards because they have more fraud and security measures is not a good argument because the world should be different is also quite silly and naive since arguments should be made based on how the world currently operates not how you wish it might operate in the future. Life is much easier when you live in reality
dpc050505 9mo ago
Using my debit card doesn't force the vendor to send 2-3% of the transaction to a company that's in a country threatening to invade mine in exchange for piss poor rewards.
- weird-eye-issue 9mo ago
  Europoor?
seattle_spring 9mo ago
Anyone who needs to get some cash from an ATM?

al_borland 9mo ago

Yeah, I was pretty unhappy about this. They are already really annoying to use, with a bunch of “offers” popping up every time I open the app.

tstrimple 9mo ago
From ING Direct to Capital One Discover. From fuck Wellsfargo, I'll never do business with them again to two of my subsequent mortgages being sold to them over the last 20 years without my consent. This entire world is designed explicitly to fuck people over at literally every turn as long as someone in the chain somewhere can pocket an extra buck.
- gtowey 9mo ago
  It turns out "vote with your dollars" doesn't work when the same 3 companies own everything.
  - tstrimple 9mo ago
    But surely if we demonstrate just how evil Nestle is just one more time, the rest of humanity will wake up and boycott them and it will be the end of suffering! Crazy to think I was libertarian minded when I was nineteen. Then again, who could actually maintain it much older? We're talking believing in the tooth fairy levels of delusion wrt to its interactions with the real world.