6 ms·

The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc). Y

The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc). You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. Just because the US changes political direction, that doesn't equate to instability. Its aims are changing, like it or not, good or bad. The US deciding it wants Greenland is not a proof of instability, it's a change in the strategic goals held by the people controlling the superpower. And the US is at a high level of strength, not weakness. Its large corporations hold sway over the globe in a manner the likes of which has never been seen before in modern history. Its military has force projection to nearly every point on the globe, with hundreds of global military bases. Its national wealth is at an all-time high. Its stock markets are at all-time highs. Its median income is at an all-time high. Its median disposable income is at an all-time high. Its housing wealth is at an all-time high.

triceratops 9mo ago
> Its median income is at an all-time high. Its median dispoable income is at an all-time high. Its housing wealth is at an all-time high. Then why is everyone so damned unhappy all the time?
- xienze 9mo ago
  The US used to be a much more homogeneous country, which certainly makes it a lot easier for everyone to be on the same page because of shared cultural values. That has changed dramatically in the past few decades and with it, places where Americans can find common ground. Other western countries are going down the exact same path, just a bit behind us.
  - triceratops 9mo ago
    I love how racism gets snuck into everything these days. No, homogeneity doesn't cause happiness.[1] And the US was always less homogenous than other "western" countries. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Japan#Suicide_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Japan#Suicide_proble...
    - xienze 9mo ago
      > No, homogeneity doesn't cause happiness. Funny though how all those European countries everyone on HN and Reddit point to as "how things should be" are all pretty ethnically and culturally homogenous, though that's changing rapidly. Interestingly, cracks are starting to appear. > And the US was always less homogenous than other "western" countries. The US was 85-90% white in 1965. That's pretty homogenous.
      - epistasis 9mo ago
        What is considered "white" now certainly wasn't in the past. It took a long time before Italians were considered to be part of the in-group. Irish and Italian people were considered an inferior race and suffered extreme racial prejudice when lots of immigrants came from those nations. And that evolution itself tells the story of the US itself. The people in non-homogenous neighborhoods are happy and harmonious, but outsiders scared of cultural differences cause racial strife and discontent. Those who let themselves get worked up about racism are the problem, not the non-homogenous races.
        triceratops 9mo ago
        That barely scratches the surface of the bigotry that existed. Protestant or Catholic, Jewish or Gentile/Christian, Eastern European or Western European, Anglo or non-Anglo, Anglo + German or non, Southern European or Northern European - these are all lines people use to discriminate upon that I can think of just off the top of my head. That's without even getting into skin color.
      - triceratops 9mo ago
        You're confirming what I said earlier. There are both happy and unhappy "homogenous" countries. There's literally no correlation. Instead of stopping there you're regurgitating, and it's unfortunate I'm confirming Poe's law, Mein Kampf. > The US was 85-90% white in 1965. That's pretty homogenous. I think you know nothing about culture, ethnicity, or the history of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism in the US if you can confidently make that statement. You're reducing all the diverse peoples that made up the nation into a single group based on their skin color.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- epistasis 9mo ago
  The combination of median disposable income and housing wealth being at all time highs is a big part of it! Those with housing have locked others out of housing, causing lots of "wealth" that those with housing don't even consider to be wealth. They think it's just "normal" and don't realize the massive advantage it gives them over everybody stuck renting. But that's symptomatic of all the other inequality. Housing is the biggest expense, and most obvious form of rent extraction that the wealthy use to exploit those without wealth, but it's not the only one.
blibble 9mo ago
> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc). You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. this is satire right? the UK's system is close to 1000 years old I doubt the current US system will last another decade > with hundreds of global military bases all of which will evaporate the moment it does anything to Greenland
- adventured 9mo ago
  The UK's current system is realistically about the same age as the US, their first PM was in the 18th century. Unless you're claiming the King/Queen is still in control of everything. You can't have that premise both ways.
  - blibble 9mo ago
    > The UK's current system is realistically about the same age as the US no, it's evolved continuously from 1066 by the time of the US rebellion, the king was already neutered > their first PM was in the 18th century. the title of "Prime Minister" is a modern invention (and not a formal position) there has been a Lord High Treasurer since the 1100s a constitutionally limited monarchy is older than the US meanwhile the modern US seems to be a absolute monarchy that isn't constitutionally limited
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
GJim 9mo ago
> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe ....... You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. Eh? If the US political system was stable and fit for purpose, the US would have got rid of the wannabe dictator by now; or at least held his power in check. EDIT: Amusingly, I'm being downvoted by a class of American who refuses to believe their way might not be the best after all. Even when the facts are staring them in the face.
- epistasis 9mo ago
  As a US citizen, I agree with you that if the US was a stable power we would have gotten rid of the dictator for good after the first term. And most definitely after trying to usurp an entire election. Or worst case after he issued pardons to all people involved in any way to usurp the election, including many hardened criminals. After all these things, even if we get control of the US government and place it into stable, hands, it will take a generation to rebuild the broken trust. But I don't think that the people downvoting you are necessarily other US citizens. It feels like HN is very good at eliminating bots, but in these sorts of discussions lots of sleeper agent bots come out to try to shift discussion. Every bit of our social media is full of it and I think that the downvotes your comment probably come from that.
  - GJim 9mo ago
    > I don't think that the people downvoting you are necessarily other US citizens. ....... sleeper agent bots come out to try to shift discussion Interesting point. I (very likely) stand corrected.
7speter 9mo ago
> And the US is at a high level of strength, not weakness. Its large corporations hold sway over the globe in a manner the likes of which has never been seen before in modern history. Its military has force projection to nearly every point on the globe, with hundreds of global military bases. Its national wealth is at an all-time high. Its stock markets are at all-time highs. Its median income is at an all-time high. Its median dispoable income is at an all-time high. Its housing wealth is at an all-time high This is in part because other countries allow American countries to come in and take over markets.
jimnotgym 9mo ago
In a war type scenario between US and Europe, what do you think will happen to those large corporations 'sway'? Their assets will be confiscated, their systems cut off or repurposed. It will immediately end any sway those corporations had
- floatrock 9mo ago
  and to op's point about > Its military has force projection to nearly every point on the globe, with hundreds of global military bases How are the hosts to all those bases going to react when suddenly the guest acts belligerent? When the ally drops down to an occupier, that force projection suddenly starts looking like occupation, which becomes a lot more expensive to maintain. And the expense has worked until now because everyone else has wanted our currency so what's a bit more currency printing, but when we kick our own global reserve currency status because we fucked all of our allies, well now that "force projections becomes a lot more expensive" actually becomes expensive^squared. This is absolutely idiotic for anyone who indulges in the privileges of empire.
justin66 9mo ago
> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc) How many European powers have had their incumbent head of state violently attempt to hold onto power after losing an election after January 6th, 2021?
- epistasis 9mo ago
  A stable country would do what South Korea or Brazil did: imprison the criminal. Instead, in the US, we have our supposed captains of industry wielding chain saws on stage to publicly support the wannabe tyrant, and donating billions behind the scenes to privately support the wannabe tyrant.
epistasis 9mo ago
> You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. I'm not confusing anything, right now Trump's mouth IS the political system in the US. Republicans control every aspect of the government completely, all the way through to the checks of the US Supreme Court. No Republican has enough backbone to stand up to Trump, and if they do gain a backbone to stand up to Trump at all, like MTG, they exit politics quickly. Thomas Massie is the closest to somebody who is standing up to Trump. If Republicans in the Senate were willing to stay in office yet defect from the party, that would be enough to stand up to Trump, but even that's not happening. Right now, the US is in a position not unlike Imperial Japan, right before they launched an attack on the US, forcing the US into WW2. High Command wants somebody to stand up and stop the obviously bad action, but nobody is willing to make the short-term sacrifice for the long-term good.
isodev 9mo ago
> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc) Can you name 26 countries with the same level of unity and cooperation with the US as what exists between the 27 members of the EU (and larger economic zone)? The US is but one country. If you zoom into states, you’d see a lot more bickering and division - y’all just sent your military against your own people just now…
senderista 9mo ago
Sorry, Trump insisting on annexing Greenland is not a "change in strategic goals", it's a toddler's petulant obsession. The US already had carte blanche from Denmark to do pretty much whatever it wanted in Greenland. Besides Trump, I doubt there's another official in the WH who wants this. They are all just humoring the demented old man.

triceratops 9mo ago

> Its median income is at an all-time high. Its median dispoable income is at an all-time high. Its housing wealth is at an all-time high. Then why is everyone so damned unhappy all the time?

xienze 9mo ago
The US used to be a much more homogeneous country, which certainly makes it a lot easier for everyone to be on the same page because of shared cultural values. That has changed dramatically in the past few decades and with it, places where Americans can find common ground. Other western countries are going down the exact same path, just a bit behind us.
- triceratops 9mo ago
  I love how racism gets snuck into everything these days. No, homogeneity doesn't cause happiness.[1] And the US was always less homogenous than other "western" countries. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Japan#Suicide_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Japan#Suicide_proble...
  - xienze 9mo ago
    > No, homogeneity doesn't cause happiness. Funny though how all those European countries everyone on HN and Reddit point to as "how things should be" are all pretty ethnically and culturally homogenous, though that's changing rapidly. Interestingly, cracks are starting to appear. > And the US was always less homogenous than other "western" countries. The US was 85-90% white in 1965. That's pretty homogenous.
    - epistasis 9mo ago
      What is considered "white" now certainly wasn't in the past. It took a long time before Italians were considered to be part of the in-group. Irish and Italian people were considered an inferior race and suffered extreme racial prejudice when lots of immigrants came from those nations. And that evolution itself tells the story of the US itself. The people in non-homogenous neighborhoods are happy and harmonious, but outsiders scared of cultural differences cause racial strife and discontent. Those who let themselves get worked up about racism are the problem, not the non-homogenous races.
      - triceratops 9mo ago
        That barely scratches the surface of the bigotry that existed. Protestant or Catholic, Jewish or Gentile/Christian, Eastern European or Western European, Anglo or non-Anglo, Anglo + German or non, Southern European or Northern European - these are all lines people use to discriminate upon that I can think of just off the top of my head. That's without even getting into skin color.
    - triceratops 9mo ago
      You're confirming what I said earlier. There are both happy and unhappy "homogenous" countries. There's literally no correlation. Instead of stopping there you're regurgitating, and it's unfortunate I'm confirming Poe's law, Mein Kampf. > The US was 85-90% white in 1965. That's pretty homogenous. I think you know nothing about culture, ethnicity, or the history of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism in the US if you can confidently make that statement. You're reducing all the diverse peoples that made up the nation into a single group based on their skin color.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
epistasis 9mo ago
The combination of median disposable income and housing wealth being at all time highs is a big part of it! Those with housing have locked others out of housing, causing lots of "wealth" that those with housing don't even consider to be wealth. They think it's just "normal" and don't realize the massive advantage it gives them over everybody stuck renting. But that's symptomatic of all the other inequality. Housing is the biggest expense, and most obvious form of rent extraction that the wealthy use to exploit those without wealth, but it's not the only one.

blibble 9mo ago

> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc). You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. this is satire right? the UK's system is close to 1000 years old I doubt the current US system will last another decade > with hundreds of global military bases all of which will evaporate the moment it does anything to Greenland

adventured 9mo ago
The UK's current system is realistically about the same age as the US, their first PM was in the 18th century. Unless you're claiming the King/Queen is still in control of everything. You can't have that premise both ways.
- blibble 9mo ago
  > The UK's current system is realistically about the same age as the US no, it's evolved continuously from 1066 by the time of the US rebellion, the king was already neutered > their first PM was in the 18th century. the title of "Prime Minister" is a modern invention (and not a formal position) there has been a Lord High Treasurer since the 1100s a constitutionally limited monarchy is older than the US meanwhile the modern US seems to be a absolute monarchy that isn't constitutionally limited

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

GJim 9mo ago

> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe ....... You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. Eh? If the US political system was stable and fit for purpose, the US would have got rid of the wannabe dictator by now; or at least held his power in check. EDIT: Amusingly, I'm being downvoted by a class of American who refuses to believe their way might not be the best after all. Even when the facts are staring them in the face.

epistasis 9mo ago
As a US citizen, I agree with you that if the US was a stable power we would have gotten rid of the dictator for good after the first term. And most definitely after trying to usurp an entire election. Or worst case after he issued pardons to all people involved in any way to usurp the election, including many hardened criminals. After all these things, even if we get control of the US government and place it into stable, hands, it will take a generation to rebuild the broken trust. But I don't think that the people downvoting you are necessarily other US citizens. It feels like HN is very good at eliminating bots, but in these sorts of discussions lots of sleeper agent bots come out to try to shift discussion. Every bit of our social media is full of it and I think that the downvotes your comment probably come from that.
- GJim 9mo ago
  > I don't think that the people downvoting you are necessarily other US citizens. ....... sleeper agent bots come out to try to shift discussion Interesting point. I (very likely) stand corrected.

7speter 9mo ago

> And the US is at a high level of strength, not weakness. Its large corporations hold sway over the globe in a manner the likes of which has never been seen before in modern history. Its military has force projection to nearly every point on the globe, with hundreds of global military bases. Its national wealth is at an all-time high. Its stock markets are at all-time highs. Its median income is at an all-time high. Its median dispoable income is at an all-time high. Its housing wealth is at an all-time high This is in part because other countries allow American countries to come in and take over markets.

jimnotgym 9mo ago

In a war type scenario between US and Europe, what do you think will happen to those large corporations 'sway'? Their assets will be confiscated, their systems cut off or repurposed. It will immediately end any sway those corporations had

floatrock 9mo ago
and to op's point about > Its military has force projection to nearly every point on the globe, with hundreds of global military bases How are the hosts to all those bases going to react when suddenly the guest acts belligerent? When the ally drops down to an occupier, that force projection suddenly starts looking like occupation, which becomes a lot more expensive to maintain. And the expense has worked until now because everyone else has wanted our currency so what's a bit more currency printing, but when we kick our own global reserve currency status because we fucked all of our allies, well now that "force projections becomes a lot more expensive" actually becomes expensive^squared. This is absolutely idiotic for anyone who indulges in the privileges of empire.

justin66 9mo ago

> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc) How many European powers have had their incumbent head of state violently attempt to hold onto power after losing an election after January 6th, 2021?

epistasis 9mo ago
A stable country would do what South Korea or Brazil did: imprison the criminal. Instead, in the US, we have our supposed captains of industry wielding chain saws on stage to publicly support the wannabe tyrant, and donating billions behind the scenes to privately support the wannabe tyrant.

epistasis 9mo ago

> You're confusing Trump's mouth with how the US political system actually functions. I'm not confusing anything, right now Trump's mouth IS the political system in the US. Republicans control every aspect of the government completely, all the way through to the checks of the US Supreme Court. No Republican has enough backbone to stand up to Trump, and if they do gain a backbone to stand up to Trump at all, like MTG, they exit politics quickly. Thomas Massie is the closest to somebody who is standing up to Trump. If Republicans in the Senate were willing to stay in office yet defect from the party, that would be enough to stand up to Trump, but even that's not happening. Right now, the US is in a position not unlike Imperial Japan, right before they launched an attack on the US, forcing the US into WW2. High Command wants somebody to stand up and stop the obviously bad action, but nobody is willing to make the short-term sacrifice for the long-term good.

isodev 9mo ago

> The US is more stable than the powers of Europe (which have constant political upheavals, snap elections that completely remake the political landscape, etc) Can you name 26 countries with the same level of unity and cooperation with the US as what exists between the 27 members of the EU (and larger economic zone)? The US is but one country. If you zoom into states, you’d see a lot more bickering and division - y’all just sent your military against your own people just now…

senderista 9mo ago

Sorry, Trump insisting on annexing Greenland is not a "change in strategic goals", it's a toddler's petulant obsession. The US already had carte blanche from Denmark to do pretty much whatever it wanted in Greenland. Besides Trump, I doubt there's another official in the WH who wants this. They are all just humoring the demented old man.