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Nvidia contacted Anna's Archive to access books
- wosined 9mo agoSounds like BS. Why would nvidia need the books. Do they even have a chatbot? I doubt the books help with framegen.
- voidUpdate 9mo agoI cant see the whole relevant section in the article, but there is a screenshot of part of the legal documents that states "In response, NVIDIA sought to develop and demonstrate cutting edge LLMs at its fall 2023 developer day. In seeking to acquire data for what it internally called "NextLargeLLM", "NextLLMLarge" and-" (cuts off here)
- utopiah 9mo agoThe same reason Intel worked on OpenCV : they want to sell more hardware by pushing the state of the art of what software can do on THEIR hardware. It's basically just a sales demonstrator, that optionally, if incredibly successful and costly they can still sell as SaaS, if not just offer for free. Think of it as a tech ad.
- johndough 9mo agoFrom the top of the linked article: > NVIDIA is also developing its own models, including NeMo, Retro-48B, InstructRetro, and Megatron. These are trained using their own hardware and with help from large text libraries, much like other tech giants do. You can download the models here: https://huggingface.co/nvidia https://huggingface.co/nvidia
- antonmks 9mo agoNVIDIA executives allegedly authorized the use of millions of pirated books from Anna's Archive to fuel its AI training. In an expanded class-action lawsuit that cites internal NVIDIA documents, several book authors claim that the trillion-dollar company directly reached out to Anna's Archive, seeking high-speed access to the shadow library data.
- skilled 9mo ago> In response, NVIDIA defended its actions as fair use, noting that books are nothing more than statistical correlations to its AI models. Does this even make sense? Are the copyright laws so bad that a statement like this would actually be in NVIDIA’s favor?
- tobwen 9mo agoBooks are databases, chars their elements. We have copyright for databases in EU :)
- Bombthecat 9mo agoWho cares? Only Disney had the money to fight them. Everything else will be slurped up for and with AI and be reused.
- RGamma 9mo agoThe chicken is trying to become the egg.
- general1465 9mo agoDid you pirated this movie? No I did not, it is fair use because this movie is nothing more than a statistical correlation to my dopamine production.
- earthnail 9mo agoThe movie played on my screen but I may or may not have seen the results of the pixels flashing. As such, we can only state with certainty that the movie triggered the TV's LEDs relative to its statistical light properties.
- JKCalhoun 9mo agoI saw the movie, but I don't remember it now.
- machomaster 9mo agoI saw the movie, but I did not watch it.
- rtbruhan00 9mo agoIt's generous of them to ask for permission.
- gizajob 9mo agoThey wanted access to a faster pipe to slurp 500 terabytes, and that access comes at a cost. It wasn’t about permission. And yeah they should be sued into the next century for copyright infringement. $4Trillion company illegally downloading the entire corpus of published literature for reuse is clearly infringement, its an absurdity to say that it’s fair use just to look for statistical correlations when training LLMs that will be used to render human authors worthless. One or two books is fair use. Every single book published is not.
- empath75 9mo agoWhatever they get sued for would be pocket change.
- breakingcups 9mo agoIt wasn't about permission, it was about high-speed access. They needed Anna's Archive to facilitate that for them, scraping was too slow. It's incredible that they were allowed to continue even after Anna's Archive themselves explicitly pointed out that the material was acquired illegally.
- kristofferR 9mo agoThat's just normal US modus operandi. The court case against Maduro is allowed to continue even after everyone has acknowledged he was acquired illegally.
- kristofferR 9mo agoIt's not permission, it's a service they offer: https://annas-archive.li/llm https://annas-archive.li/llm
- poulpy123 9mo agoI'm not saying it will change anything but going after Anna's archive while most of the big AI players intensely used it is quite something
- countWSS 9mo agoShort-term thinking, they don't care about where the data comes from but how easy is to get it. Its probably decided at project-manager level.
- pjc50 9mo agoNVIDIA are "legitimate", so anything they do is fine, while AA are "illegitimate", so it's not.
- gizajob 9mo agoLibrary Genesis worked pretty great and unmolested until news came out about Meta using it, at which point a bunch of the main sites disappeared off the net. So not only do these companies take ALL the pirated material, their act of doing so even borks the pirates, ruining the fun of piracy for everyone else.
- SanjayMehta 9mo agoI'm wondering what Amazon is planning to do with their access to all those Kindle books.
- philipwhiuk 9mo agoWhat do you mean 'planning'. You think they haven't already been sucked up?
- embedding-shape 9mo agoWhat do you mean 'sucked up'? It's data on their machines already, people willingly give them the data, so Amazon can process and offer it to readers. No sucking needed, just use the data people uploaded to you already.
- sib 9mo agoThere's definitely a legal & contractual difference between (1) storing the books on your servers in order to provide them to end users who have purchased licenses to read them and (2) using that same data for training a model that might be used to create books that compete with the originals. I'm pretty sure that's why GP means by "sucking up." This is analogous the difference between Gmail using search within your mail content to find messages that you are looking for vs Gmail providing ads inside Gmail based on the content of your email (which they don't do).
- embedding-shape 9mo agoYeah, I guess the "err" is on my side, I've always took "suck up" as a synonym for scraping, not just "using data for stuff". And yeah, you're most likely right about the first, and the contract writers have with Amazon most certainly anticipates this, and includes both uses in their contract. But! Never published on Amazon, so don't know, but I'm guessing they already have the rights for doing so with what people been uploading these last few years.
- philipwhiuk 9mo ago
- utopiah 9mo agoPeople HAVE to somehow notice how hungry for proper data AI companies are when one of the largest companies propping the fastest growing market STILL has to go to such length, getting actual approval for pirated content while they are hardware manufacturer. I keep hearing how it's fine because synthetic data will solve it all, how new techniques, feedback etc. Then why do that? The promises are not matching the resources available and this makes it blatantly clear.
- flipped 9mo agoConsidering AA gave them ~500TB of books, which is astonishing (very expensive to even store for AA), I wonder how much nvidia paid them for it? It has to be atleast close to half a million?
- qingcharles 9mo agoI have a very large collection of magazines. AI companies were offering straight cash and FTP logins for them about a year or so ago. Then when things all blew up they all went quiet.
- uncivilized 8mo agoHow did AI companies find your collection?
- haritha-j 9mo agoJust to clarify, the most valuable company in the world refuses to pay for digital media?
- 1over137 9mo agoNot spending money (vs spending money) helps make one rich!
- machomaster 9mo agoNot in the case of Nvidia. Famously, "the more you pay, the more you save".
- nexle 9mo agothey already paid 10x more to their lawyers to ensure that torrenting for LLM training is perfectly legal, why they want to pay more?
- NekkoDroid 9mo agoWell... you don't want the good guys (Nvidia) giving money to the bad guys (Anna's Archive) right??? /s
- rpdillon 9mo agoI see this sentiment posted quite a bit, but have the publishers made any products available that would allow AI training on their works for payment? A naive approach would be to go to an online bookstore and pay $15 for every book, but then you have copyrighted content that is encrypted, that it's a violation of the DMCA to decrypt. I assume you're expecting that they'll reach out and cut a deal with each publishing house separately, and then those publishing houses will have to somehow transfer their data over to NVIDIA. But that's a very custom set of discussions and deals that have to be struck. I think they're going to the pirate libraries because the product they want doesn't exist.
- haritha-j 9mo agoPerhaps because authors don't want their content to be used for this purpose? Because Microsoft refuses to give me a copy of the source code to Windows to 'inspire' my vibe-coded OS, Windowpanes 12, of which I will not give microsoft a single cent of revenue, its acceptable for me to pirate it? Someone doesn't want to sell me their work, so I'm justified in stealing it?
- derelicta 9mo agoI feel like Nvidia's CEO would be the kind to snatch off sugary sachets from his local deli just to save up some more.
- songodongo 9mo ago“Yes officer, it was the goober thinking he looked cool in the leather jacket.”
- 1over137 9mo agoA great retaliation to Trump tariffs would be just cancelling copyright for American works in your country.
- ronsor 9mo agoThis would likely mean America canceling copyright for works in that country as well. I'm OK with that. Destroy copyright.
- hollow-moe 9mo agowhatever, laws are for the poor anyways, you ought to think it would be common knowledge by now but nope
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 9mo agoI've always wondered about some of the torrent whales with multiple petabytes on private trackers. A lot of the whales auto dl every single new torrent that's uploaded. Perhaps even the sites themselves are allowed to operate as a way to get users to crowd source media.
- musicale 8mo agoThe reason why it's legal for Nvidia to download Anna's Archive and illegal for you is that they have well-paid lawyers and deep pockets to kick the can down the road for years before negotiating a settlement, making billions in the meantime. The settlement itself becomes a moat. They also pay millions of dollars to lobbyists to encourage favorable regulation and enforcement.