7 ms·

It's like robin hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor, his motives are pure, depending on how you look at it, and robin hood can continue this as lon

by maeon3 14y ago

It's like robin hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor, his motives are pure, depending on how you look at it, and robin hood can continue this as long as the governing body who wants him dead is inept at catching him. The pirate bay, like robin hood, cannot live forever. SOME of us will only be stronger than ALL of us for brief moments in history. The only way TPB is to survive is for it to make good on its invisibility promise and make both the users and and distributors invisible to those who want it dead. There needs to be a creative mechanism to render the service invisible to those who disagree with its existence, and to render it visible to those who crave data. It won't matter that TPB is distributed, clouded, encrypted, PTP, or whatever. When the governments are successful in getting SOPA, ACTA or whatever through congress, the ISP's and companies like Google and Apple are going to be made responsible for cooking into their devices preventions for unauthorized copying and unauthorized distribution of 3d schematics for weapons that pass through their ISP's or their hardware. As elite as TPB thinks they are, a few elite hackers can't fight an army of mediocre hackers. An important factor in TPB living forever is preserving its image in the hearts and minds of ALL hackers everywhere, worldwide, collectively we can outsmart those who wish to catch us, a small group of us will eventually be defeated, as all robin hoods must be. We have to have the hackers on the ground floor who wish TPB to live forever inside Google, Comcast, Apple, HP, MPAA, RIAA, and everywhere else. The battle for control what you can think, what you can do inside the comfort of your own mind is under attack. The battle begins here, with the ownership of what can take place in your computer. Soon these computers will be our minds, and the governments will rule over the thoughts that take place inside them. We will wake up as directive following slaves on the land our fathers conquered. We have to have a 10 and a 50 year plan.

gambiting 14y ago
And then they will move exclusively to TOR. And then TOR will be outlawed and anybody using it will be sentenced to 20 years in prison.
- S4M 14y ago
  It's gonna be hard to identify who is usung TOR, and doing so will require to take measures that will be against freedom, like controlling what people are installing on their computers.
  - haakon 14y ago
    It's very easy to identify most people who use Tor (almost all nodes are publicly available). You can't know what they use it for, but if merely using it becomes illegal, the secret police will have a very neat list of houses to visit.
    - fafner 14y ago
      They actually try to hide the usage of Tor as much as possible. There was a lengthy talk at 28C3 about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwMr8Xl7JMQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwMr8Xl7JMQ
    - chii 14y ago
      it would be a real sad day when the world regresses to such a state - i mean, why did the free world win WWII for then?
      - adambyrtek 14y ago
        What free world? Soviet Union was on the winning side of WWII, and the result for many European countries (including mine) was decades of communist repressions. History is more complex than a Hollywood movie, with good guys vs bad guys.
        mylittlepony 14y ago
        For a moment I thought chii was being sarcastic. I had that hope.
    - RobAtticus 14y ago
      Perhaps something like this work[1] could be useful to make it harder to shut down even if the list of nodes is public. [1] http://sns.cs.princeton.edu/projects/cor/ http://sns.cs.princeton.edu/projects/cor/
- SquareWheel 14y ago
  Somehow I don't think bittorent under TOR would catch on. Unless you don't mind waiting two weeks to watch your new movie.
  - adambyrtek 14y ago
    Tor could be used only for trackers, not the actual data.
    - zschallz 14y ago
      Note for clarity: The data transfer would not remain anonymous, only the trackers facilitating it.
- chmodd 14y ago
  A handful of countries attempt to block Tor and only two (China and Iran) do it seriously, using deep packet inspection (still doesn't work because of obfsproxy, duh). Even though, not even China and Iran outlawed it.
smiler 14y ago
"It's like robin hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor" No, really, it's not. For the most part it is encouraging people to consume something for free they should have paid for. I really don't get the love for TPB and copyright infringement in general on HN when most are dreaming of starting businesses where you need people to hand over money.
- tatsuke95 14y ago
  >For the most part it is encouraging people to consume something for free they should have paid for. So, the Robin Hood analogy works perfectly then. The movie and music companies aren't suffering, artists aren't suffering (in fact, in can be argued that artists embracing the new media world are flourishing), software companies and developers aren't suffering. There is more music, movies and software than ever before. The whole piracy issue is overblown.
  - smiler 14y ago
    Just because developers, musicians, artists etc aren't suffering doesn't mean that it's right or should be encouraged.
    - niels_olson 14y ago
      I see you are in Britain, where copyright originally developed. As I recall, the history was a couple of publishers trying to bloody each other (1). It had nothing to do with whether a merchant wanted to transcribe copies of Hamlet to share with friends practising for the local theatre production 50 years after Shakespeare's death. The principle profits had already been wrung out. In the US, the copyright exists To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts (2). It essentially is allowed to exist with the hopes that on average it will further the common good, but it is limited because even at the time, there was a good deal of skepticism about that monopoly power. With regards to music and the visual and performing artists, I think many might actually argue that they are expressly uninterested in meeting the definition of "useful": "Art is art and everything is everything else." (3). But even if we offend them, it must surely be useful to lower the cost music in the air. It must surely be in the public good to reduce the cost of happiness. I would be interested in hearing why you think right is what you think it is, your understanding of the history of where copyright came from. (1) http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html (2) US Constitution, Article 1, section 8, clause 8 (3) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ad_Reinhardt http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ad_Reinhardt
Karunamon 14y ago
>An important factor in TPB living forever is preserving its image in the hearts and minds of ALL hackers everywhere, worldwide, collectively we can outsmart those who wish to catch us, a small group of us will eventually be defeated, as all robin hoods must be. Heh, reminds me of the Hacker's Manifesto.. Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for. I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike. http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html
grecy 14y ago
> a few elite hackers can't fight an army of mediocre hackers Current events prove otherwise.
jakejake 14y ago
Well perhaps they are arguably robbing the rich, but they're certainly not paying the poor. The reason I don't like TPB is not because of pirating, but rather they are making money from others' work while pretending its about freedom. It especially annoys me to see fellow programmers getting extremely upset when a software authors work is copied or used in violation with their chosen license. Yet musicians are not allowed to speak up when their work is copied or else they're labeled as greedy and out of touch.
- lumberjack 14y ago
  >but they're certainly not paying the poor. How so? A lot of the stuff on TPB would be too expensive for the lowest class of working Americans and much more so for most of the rest of the world. It's true that the TPB are profiting out of it (though they are offering a service and covering a market in their own right) but you make it seem like the users are getting nothing out of it. That's blatantly false. A significant part of the 3rd world's technological infrastructure is built on pirated software.

by maeon3 14y ago

gambiting 14y ago

And then they will move exclusively to TOR. And then TOR will be outlawed and anybody using it will be sentenced to 20 years in prison.

S4M 14y ago
It's gonna be hard to identify who is usung TOR, and doing so will require to take measures that will be against freedom, like controlling what people are installing on their computers.
- haakon 14y ago
  It's very easy to identify most people who use Tor (almost all nodes are publicly available). You can't know what they use it for, but if merely using it becomes illegal, the secret police will have a very neat list of houses to visit.
  - fafner 14y ago
    They actually try to hide the usage of Tor as much as possible. There was a lengthy talk at 28C3 about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwMr8Xl7JMQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwMr8Xl7JMQ
  - chii 14y ago
    it would be a real sad day when the world regresses to such a state - i mean, why did the free world win WWII for then?
    - adambyrtek 14y ago
      What free world? Soviet Union was on the winning side of WWII, and the result for many European countries (including mine) was decades of communist repressions. History is more complex than a Hollywood movie, with good guys vs bad guys.
      - mylittlepony 14y ago
        For a moment I thought chii was being sarcastic. I had that hope.
  - RobAtticus 14y ago
    Perhaps something like this work[1] could be useful to make it harder to shut down even if the list of nodes is public. [1] http://sns.cs.princeton.edu/projects/cor/ http://sns.cs.princeton.edu/projects/cor/
SquareWheel 14y ago
Somehow I don't think bittorent under TOR would catch on. Unless you don't mind waiting two weeks to watch your new movie.
- adambyrtek 14y ago
  Tor could be used only for trackers, not the actual data.
  - zschallz 14y ago
    Note for clarity: The data transfer would not remain anonymous, only the trackers facilitating it.
chmodd 14y ago
A handful of countries attempt to block Tor and only two (China and Iran) do it seriously, using deep packet inspection (still doesn't work because of obfsproxy, duh). Even though, not even China and Iran outlawed it.

smiler 14y ago

"It's like robin hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor" No, really, it's not. For the most part it is encouraging people to consume something for free they should have paid for. I really don't get the love for TPB and copyright infringement in general on HN when most are dreaming of starting businesses where you need people to hand over money.

tatsuke95 14y ago
>For the most part it is encouraging people to consume something for free they should have paid for. So, the Robin Hood analogy works perfectly then. The movie and music companies aren't suffering, artists aren't suffering (in fact, in can be argued that artists embracing the new media world are flourishing), software companies and developers aren't suffering. There is more music, movies and software than ever before. The whole piracy issue is overblown.
- smiler 14y ago
  Just because developers, musicians, artists etc aren't suffering doesn't mean that it's right or should be encouraged.
  - niels_olson 14y ago
    I see you are in Britain, where copyright originally developed. As I recall, the history was a couple of publishers trying to bloody each other (1). It had nothing to do with whether a merchant wanted to transcribe copies of Hamlet to share with friends practising for the local theatre production 50 years after Shakespeare's death. The principle profits had already been wrung out. In the US, the copyright exists To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts (2). It essentially is allowed to exist with the hopes that on average it will further the common good, but it is limited because even at the time, there was a good deal of skepticism about that monopoly power. With regards to music and the visual and performing artists, I think many might actually argue that they are expressly uninterested in meeting the definition of "useful": "Art is art and everything is everything else." (3). But even if we offend them, it must surely be useful to lower the cost music in the air. It must surely be in the public good to reduce the cost of happiness. I would be interested in hearing why you think right is what you think it is, your understanding of the history of where copyright came from. (1) http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html (2) US Constitution, Article 1, section 8, clause 8 (3) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ad_Reinhardt http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ad_Reinhardt

Karunamon 14y ago

>An important factor in TPB living forever is preserving its image in the hearts and minds of ALL hackers everywhere, worldwide, collectively we can outsmart those who wish to catch us, a small group of us will eventually be defeated, as all robin hoods must be. Heh, reminds me of the Hacker's Manifesto.. Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for. I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike. http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html

grecy 14y ago

> a few elite hackers can't fight an army of mediocre hackers Current events prove otherwise.

jakejake 14y ago

Well perhaps they are arguably robbing the rich, but they're certainly not paying the poor. The reason I don't like TPB is not because of pirating, but rather they are making money from others' work while pretending its about freedom. It especially annoys me to see fellow programmers getting extremely upset when a software authors work is copied or used in violation with their chosen license. Yet musicians are not allowed to speak up when their work is copied or else they're labeled as greedy and out of touch.

lumberjack 14y ago
>but they're certainly not paying the poor. How so? A lot of the stuff on TPB would be too expensive for the lowest class of working Americans and much more so for most of the rest of the world. It's true that the TPB are profiting out of it (though they are offering a service and covering a market in their own right) but you make it seem like the users are getting nothing out of it. That's blatantly false. A significant part of the 3rd world's technological infrastructure is built on pirated software.