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I've been having fun making stuff in Suno, I'm not a musician but I've always enjoyed "producing tracks" using Abelton and find the Suno + Abelton combo to be r

by neom 9mo ago

I've been having fun making stuff in Suno, I'm not a musician but I've always enjoyed "producing tracks" using Abelton and find the Suno + Abelton combo to be real magic on the weekends. I think some of the stuff I made isn't too bad and I'd love feedback on it. For a few weeks I went back and forth about uploading them to my soundcloud and resolve with this: I wouldn't have insisted we only allowed art made with MS paint on deviantART, we didn't even enforce quality (tho we highlighted) - we enforced the type of kindness that leads to learning and growth. I hope we can have places for professionals and places for people to display and play with creativity and art irrespective of the tooling. :)

herbturbo 9mo ago
That’s what the sites that generate the music are for. Bandcamp is for musicians.
shermantanktop 9mo ago
I am a musician, in the “accomplished amateur” category. For me, music is a never-ending journey of learning and skill-building, and I’ve come to appreciate that journey as much or more than the destination (= recording or live performance). If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself. I’d encourage you to dig deeper into why and how the music that is being created by those tools works.
- neom 9mo ago
  "If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself." - Me too! :) I use suno to gen vocals, I use my regular teenage engineering workflow + Abelton to mix and master, I'm WAY better in Abelton than I was even 6 months ago - people have always been able to download photoshop actions and filters etc, as you said, it's more about the creative journey.
- JohnFen 9mo ago
  > If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself. And I would much prefer to hear your music over machine-generated music even if the generated music is technically better performed.
AnotherGoodName 9mo ago
An aside but https://sunoai-music.com/ https://sunoai-music.com/ seems incredibly broken on my desktop. Typed a prompt and hit generate. No response after waiting some time. I scrolled down to existing sample music to get a sense of what it creates and hit play. Not one of the play buttons worked. Ok load up Chrome instead of Firefox, maybe they did some Chrome specific thing? Nope site's still broken and none of the samples under "Suno AI Music Gallery" actually work. There's a javascript error "invalid client" on clicking it. I'm not logged in i guess? It did work on mobile but that seems like it presents a completely different site.
- mrnotcrazy 9mo ago
  I think the URL should be suno.com, the link you posted is a different thing? Suno.com is the one I've used, I generally use it for DND type campaigns when I need custom music for scenes or background noises. It does pretty good sound effects and spoken word so sometimes I use it for that as well.
  - AnotherGoodName 9mo ago
    That worked. Thanks i just googled suno ai music to check it out and got the seemingly spammy link.
- gs17 9mo ago
  That's not the real Suno site.
frakt0x90 9mo ago
Whenever I see defences of AI "art" people very often reduce the arguments to these analogies of using tools, but it's ineffective. Whether you use MS Paint, Photoshop, pencil, watercolor etc. That all requires skill, practice, and is this great intersection of intent and ability. It's authentic. Generating media with AI requires no skill, no intent, and very minimal labor. It is an approximation of the words you typed in and reduces you to a commissioner. You created nothing. You commissioned a work from a machine and are claiming creative authorship.
- pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
  We humans use machines to make art. Robots may use a machine but that imagio deo component is missing.
- sheeh 9mo ago
  You are correct. I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with people who don’t get it. Those people don’t tend to have a good understanding of what most humans like and why they like stuff like music.
- RevEng 9mo ago
  You are assuming a very specific form of generation. There are plenty of levels in between. Simply saying "AI" isn't sufficient to make an argument.
- greygoo222 9mo ago
  If it were so easy to create good AI music, I'd be able to do it all myself instead of following so many artists. But it takes a lot of skill.
  - jplusequalt 9mo ago
    You're barking up the wrong tree. You're trying to tell artists about "skill", when they've spent lots of time (potentially thousands of hours!) getting good at their craft.
- neom 9mo ago
IAmGraydon 9mo ago
What workflow are you using with Ableton/Suno?
- neom 9mo ago
  Mostly using it to gen vocals, sometimes stems, sometimes gen samples, then as you'd expect -> wav out -> lay it up in Abelton, add in my teenage engineering stuff - filters -> mix and master -> out https://soundcloud.com/john/eager https://soundcloud.com/john/eager - I put over 16 hours into this track, I'm sure someone who knows about music can point to loads of errors in it, I'm sure it's sloppy in parts, but I put real effort into it and I'm proud of that effort.
  - IAmGraydon 9mo ago
    So I've used Suno a bit in my own musical creations, but would never release something with any sound that was generated via AI. What I do is write and record a song (I'm also in Ableton), then when I'm unhappy with something or don't know where to go next, I throw it into Suno and have it generate some ideas. I use those ideas just as you would use ideas from a writing partner. If I like them, I transcribe them, play them on real instruments, and record them. So no actual sound from Suno ever makes it into my compositions - just some of the musical ideas here and there. That way it's still me playing and still sounds like me. To me, this is the most legitimate way for music makers to use AI. If you go look at the credits for almost any professional recording artist, they all work with one or more writers and producers to get their music dialed in. Us normies can't really afford to have Max Martin come over and write with us, and I think using AI in the way I mentioned is a suitable alternative. I really fail to see the difference, honestly.
    - neom 9mo ago
      Yeah! I think how you are doing it is great! For me making music is about spacing and...I dunno, the sound stage I guess? Sometimes I don't even listen to lyrics I like getting lost in the flow of it, I'm not interested in improving my own singing abilities, but I am interested in improving as a song writer, suno really helps me hear what my words sound like. I can also gen stuff real quickly to throw into my OPZ or OP1 to put together into tracks, it's a lot of fun.
Kreutzer 9mo ago
The community of AI "musicians" should absolutely have a place to share their "music". Just identify it as such so everyone else can avoid it. :)
- neom 9mo ago
  Exactly! :) When I was going through my back and forth on if I should upload it to soundcloud I thought a few times "I should just build SlopART" - if I had more time I probably would, because it's a place I wouldn't mind hanging out. :)
jplusequalt 9mo ago
The whole problem with this is that the people using generative AI tools are trying to co-opt what "art" is. They're barging into creative spaces and demanding that the real artists treat them as equals. I hope you understand that no group of people would treat you kindly for doing that.
- neom 9mo ago
  Sure except half my classes in art school ended up in debates on what "art" even is/means - some people thought if it involved commerce at all it's not art, some people about the process, some people about the human, some people about the final work itself, is it high or low brow, fine art or emotive? So when you say "co-opt what "art is." - sure, but...not sure. On barging into creative spaces and how that should be viewed, I suspect you and I would find we feel the same. I was personally involved in building and shaping deviantart and how we tackled these ideas, so what you see there today is influenced by my(and scott, eric angelo etc) thinking on this matter.
  - egypturnash 9mo ago
    Most of the artists I know, including me, have kinda given up on DA after its pivot to AI.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - neom 9mo ago
      I was there in the beginning getting it off the ground, I've not looked in a very long time but dA is owned by WiX now so I'm not surprised. A lot of people left when we started to highlight vector art/pop art, a big wave left when we started to support suzi9mm and co, this wave will be AI. Here is the idea we built it on: https://x.com/dissenter_hi/status/2011183228154188111 https://x.com/dissenter_hi/status/2011183228154188111
takedalullaby 9mo ago
[dead]
bondarchuk 9mo ago
...and now deviantart is deader than dead because overrun with slop. Anyway I don't think your case is really so bad. As long as the creator at least has put in the effort to listen to their own stuff from beginning to end at least once (yes that's a low bar), you're already miles ahead of people who'd auto-gen 100s of albums and slap them on there in one go. Music is more inherently rate-limiting than image generation where only half a second or less is needed to take in an image superficially.

by neom 9mo ago

herbturbo 9mo ago

That’s what the sites that generate the music are for. Bandcamp is for musicians.

shermantanktop 9mo ago

I am a musician, in the “accomplished amateur” category. For me, music is a never-ending journey of learning and skill-building, and I’ve come to appreciate that journey as much or more than the destination (= recording or live performance). If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself. I’d encourage you to dig deeper into why and how the music that is being created by those tools works.

neom 9mo ago
"If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself." - Me too! :) I use suno to gen vocals, I use my regular teenage engineering workflow + Abelton to mix and master, I'm WAY better in Abelton than I was even 6 months ago - people have always been able to download photoshop actions and filters etc, as you said, it's more about the creative journey.
JohnFen 9mo ago
> If you gave me a one-click button to improve my skills, I’m not sure I would click it— I’d rather get there myself. And I would much prefer to hear your music over machine-generated music even if the generated music is technically better performed.

AnotherGoodName 9mo ago

An aside but https://sunoai-music.com/ https://sunoai-music.com/ seems incredibly broken on my desktop. Typed a prompt and hit generate. No response after waiting some time. I scrolled down to existing sample music to get a sense of what it creates and hit play. Not one of the play buttons worked. Ok load up Chrome instead of Firefox, maybe they did some Chrome specific thing? Nope site's still broken and none of the samples under "Suno AI Music Gallery" actually work. There's a javascript error "invalid client" on clicking it. I'm not logged in i guess? It did work on mobile but that seems like it presents a completely different site.

mrnotcrazy 9mo ago
I think the URL should be suno.com, the link you posted is a different thing? Suno.com is the one I've used, I generally use it for DND type campaigns when I need custom music for scenes or background noises. It does pretty good sound effects and spoken word so sometimes I use it for that as well.
- AnotherGoodName 9mo ago
  That worked. Thanks i just googled suno ai music to check it out and got the seemingly spammy link.
gs17 9mo ago
That's not the real Suno site.

frakt0x90 9mo ago

Whenever I see defences of AI "art" people very often reduce the arguments to these analogies of using tools, but it's ineffective. Whether you use MS Paint, Photoshop, pencil, watercolor etc. That all requires skill, practice, and is this great intersection of intent and ability. It's authentic. Generating media with AI requires no skill, no intent, and very minimal labor. It is an approximation of the words you typed in and reduces you to a commissioner. You created nothing. You commissioned a work from a machine and are claiming creative authorship.

pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
We humans use machines to make art. Robots may use a machine but that imagio deo component is missing.
sheeh 9mo ago
You are correct. I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with people who don’t get it. Those people don’t tend to have a good understanding of what most humans like and why they like stuff like music.
RevEng 9mo ago
You are assuming a very specific form of generation. There are plenty of levels in between. Simply saying "AI" isn't sufficient to make an argument.
greygoo222 9mo ago
If it were so easy to create good AI music, I'd be able to do it all myself instead of following so many artists. But it takes a lot of skill.
- jplusequalt 9mo ago
  You're barking up the wrong tree. You're trying to tell artists about "skill", when they've spent lots of time (potentially thousands of hours!) getting good at their craft.
neom 9mo ago

IAmGraydon 9mo ago

What workflow are you using with Ableton/Suno?

neom 9mo ago
Mostly using it to gen vocals, sometimes stems, sometimes gen samples, then as you'd expect -> wav out -> lay it up in Abelton, add in my teenage engineering stuff - filters -> mix and master -> out https://soundcloud.com/john/eager https://soundcloud.com/john/eager - I put over 16 hours into this track, I'm sure someone who knows about music can point to loads of errors in it, I'm sure it's sloppy in parts, but I put real effort into it and I'm proud of that effort.
- IAmGraydon 9mo ago
  So I've used Suno a bit in my own musical creations, but would never release something with any sound that was generated via AI. What I do is write and record a song (I'm also in Ableton), then when I'm unhappy with something or don't know where to go next, I throw it into Suno and have it generate some ideas. I use those ideas just as you would use ideas from a writing partner. If I like them, I transcribe them, play them on real instruments, and record them. So no actual sound from Suno ever makes it into my compositions - just some of the musical ideas here and there. That way it's still me playing and still sounds like me. To me, this is the most legitimate way for music makers to use AI. If you go look at the credits for almost any professional recording artist, they all work with one or more writers and producers to get their music dialed in. Us normies can't really afford to have Max Martin come over and write with us, and I think using AI in the way I mentioned is a suitable alternative. I really fail to see the difference, honestly.
  - neom 9mo ago
    Yeah! I think how you are doing it is great! For me making music is about spacing and...I dunno, the sound stage I guess? Sometimes I don't even listen to lyrics I like getting lost in the flow of it, I'm not interested in improving my own singing abilities, but I am interested in improving as a song writer, suno really helps me hear what my words sound like. I can also gen stuff real quickly to throw into my OPZ or OP1 to put together into tracks, it's a lot of fun.

Kreutzer 9mo ago

The community of AI "musicians" should absolutely have a place to share their "music". Just identify it as such so everyone else can avoid it. :)

neom 9mo ago
Exactly! :) When I was going through my back and forth on if I should upload it to soundcloud I thought a few times "I should just build SlopART" - if I had more time I probably would, because it's a place I wouldn't mind hanging out. :)

jplusequalt 9mo ago

The whole problem with this is that the people using generative AI tools are trying to co-opt what "art" is. They're barging into creative spaces and demanding that the real artists treat them as equals. I hope you understand that no group of people would treat you kindly for doing that.

neom 9mo ago
Sure except half my classes in art school ended up in debates on what "art" even is/means - some people thought if it involved commerce at all it's not art, some people about the process, some people about the human, some people about the final work itself, is it high or low brow, fine art or emotive? So when you say "co-opt what "art is." - sure, but...not sure. On barging into creative spaces and how that should be viewed, I suspect you and I would find we feel the same. I was personally involved in building and shaping deviantart and how we tackled these ideas, so what you see there today is influenced by my(and scott, eric angelo etc) thinking on this matter.
- egypturnash 9mo ago
  Most of the artists I know, including me, have kinda given up on DA after its pivot to AI.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - neom 9mo ago
    I was there in the beginning getting it off the ground, I've not looked in a very long time but dA is owned by WiX now so I'm not surprised. A lot of people left when we started to highlight vector art/pop art, a big wave left when we started to support suzi9mm and co, this wave will be AI. Here is the idea we built it on: https://x.com/dissenter_hi/status/2011183228154188111 https://x.com/dissenter_hi/status/2011183228154188111

takedalullaby 9mo ago

[dead]

bondarchuk 9mo ago

...and now deviantart is deader than dead because overrun with slop. Anyway I don't think your case is really so bad. As long as the creator at least has put in the effort to listen to their own stuff from beginning to end at least once (yes that's a low bar), you're already miles ahead of people who'd auto-gen 100s of albums and slap them on there in one go. Music is more inherently rate-limiting than image generation where only half a second or less is needed to take in an image superficially.