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This comment reminds me of when I talked to a few Chinese friends about their thoughts on Mao. They all acknowledged the failed policies which led to famine, ye
by throw4436y54 9mo ago
This comment reminds me of when I talked to a few Chinese friends about their thoughts on Mao. They all acknowledged the failed policies which led to famine, yet they also admired that he basically gave Chinese people their pride back.
They related him to an uncle figure who became a mean drunk.
- scyzoryk_xyz 9mo agoI'm just glad Dilbert's creator is in the same thread as Chairman Mao
- RIMR 9mo agoIt's a shame he's not around to get really upset about it.
- cosmicgadget 9mo agoOf nothing else, he was impressive at melting down.
- mikkupikku 9mo agoHe'd probably be flattered, Mao was one of histories greatest influencer of minds after all.
- k__ 9mo agoPride made it worth it?!
- godzillabrennus 9mo agoHaving married a Chinese person. Yes. Despite the massive issues with the cultural revolution and communism in general, they are taught to be aware that it was Mao who threw off imperialism. Chinese are self governing because of him. Right or wrong, that is how they feel.
- jnwatson 9mo agoHuh? Mao didn't even found the CCP. Arguably, Chiang Kai-shek had more to do with "throwing off imperialism" than Mao.
- k__ 9mo agoThey were building an imperium themselves before and after.
- aaronbrethorst 9mo agoI think it's possible to throw off the yoke of imperialism without then promptly dipping right into totalitarianism.
- dlisboa 9mo agoUnfortunately the rest of the world has no real example of that. Which is more of an issue with imperialism itself than the people trying to escape it.
- orochimaaru 9mo agoI don’t think so. I haven’t seen a successful example of that, not in a country are large as China. Even the US - after independence one imperialism was replaced by another - a committee of the wealthy. It was a slow march to the democracy and universal suffrage that exists today.
- chithanh 9mo ago
- elzbardico 9mo agoIt is very important to understand where the Chinese have just come from. British Imperialism and Japan's occupation were pretty much civilizational trauma events. Opium Wars, Rape of Nanking. Things had been pretty hardcore for the Chinese for quite some time when Mao took power.
- vkou 9mo agoDon't forget the decades of fragmentation and civil war. People that take power in those kinds of environments rarely trend towards genteel treatment of their political enemies in the peace that follows.
- throwaway422432 9mo agoThey're rarely that kind to their enablers either. I don't think the "Down to the Countryside Movement" was what the Red Guard were expecting as their reward for supporting the revolution. The current agitators in the West need to remember that the latitude they currently have to dissent and protest isn't likely to exist after the actual revolution.
- lambdasquirrel 9mo agoWell that’s the kicker right? Mao gave way for later leaders who lifted China out of poverty. The normalization of all this craziness is what led the USA to where it is today. Two quite different trajectories.
- marcosdumay 9mo agoNot very different. In fact, both endpoints seem very similar, even though the starts were different. If anything, the US is still far away from as bad as China.
- worik 9mo ago> If anything, the US is still far away from as bad as China That is a matter of opinion I am unsure about social conditions within the countries ( freedom Vs. economic security -hard to compare) But in international relations the USA has been a rouge state for many decades (e.g. tjr Gulf of Tonkin deception). The USA pretends to care about "values", but does not, it cares about it's own interests China is plain speaking and cares, openly and transparently, about its interests The USA has institutionalised hypocrisy. China sins her own sins in the open The USA is much worse than China - to foreigners
- marcosdumay 9mo ago> China is plain speaking and cares, openly and transparently, about its interests Hum... Are you from the US or Europe? The amount of propaganda circulating worldwide about how China is helping propel all developing nations into modernity with infrastructure investment is just ridiculous. (And yeah, there's half a truth in it, like all useful propaganda.)
- arbitrary_name 9mo ago>China is plain speaking and cares, openly and transparently, about its interests What???????
- WalterBright 9mo ago
- gcanyon 9mo agoI used to say the same thing about Ronald Reagan -- a president who did many questionable/bad things, but he lifted the U.S. out of the doldrums we experienced in the late '70s. Over time I've learned context about how those doldrums occurred, and more about what Reagan actually did, and the trade seems much less worthwhile. :-/
- asdefghyk 9mo agoRE ".....Ronald Reagan -- a president who did many questionable/bad things..." Not being in the common demographic of this site , I had to google this - as I was not aware of any ..... It educated me. It made me immedicably wonder where the current president would fit into ... since the google also had questions and claimed answers/OPINIONS too " who was worst US president etc... The current presidents situation is still being played out - obviously ...
- TurdF3rguson 9mo agoAre you talking about Iran-Contra? Because that's quaint by today's standards. Trump could do Iran-Contra on a Tuesday and people would be done talking about it by Thursday.
- gcanyon 9mo agoNope, I knew about Iran-Contra years back. I'm thinking of the economic policy, the AIDS mishandling, the rest of the middle east shenanigans, the various military escapades, and on and on.
- TurdF3rguson 9mo agoOk and which of those would have been a more than 1 day news cycle if they happened today?
- Zigurd 9mo agoSounds like what some American will say in two or three years, except for the excuse about being drunk.
- nonethewiser 9mo agoMore like a sober uncle who killed other family members.
- hinkley 9mo agoI’ve met too many (mostly martial) artists who have stories of their lineage having to hide their art during Mao or a similar dark period in other parts of East Asia to see these people as an uncle. More like the kid in high school you found out is serving two consecutive life sentences and saying, yeah that tracks.
- mikkupikku 9mo agoThe famine stuff I could write off as honest mistakes by a misguided but well meaning leader. Mao's role in kicking off the Cultural Revolution as part of his internal power struggle with the CCP can hardly be excused the same way, it was profoundly evil. The CCP today can recognize some of the faults with Mao, and even acknowledge that the Cultural Revolution was a disaster, but shy away from acknowledging Mao's causal role in that.
- charlescearl 9mo ago“Thus, the Communist and Cultural Revolutions represent some of the most radical attempts in human history to eliminate the advantages of the elite, and to eradicate inequality in wealth and formal education.” http://davidyyang.com/pdfs/revolutions_draft.pdf http://davidyyang.com/pdfs/revolutions_draft.pdf
- benjiro 9mo ago> This comment reminds me of when I talked to a few Chinese friends about their thoughts on Mao. There has been a push under Xi's leadership to whitewash a lot of the past, especially involving Mao. As Xi has been positioning himself as a somewhat father figure of the nation. This has resulted in a revival of Mao policies, like the little red book. So do not be surprised about uncle figure statement...
- bigDinosaur 9mo agoThat's because they've been indoctrinated - Mao was a complete disaster in every way but admitting that is a step too far for the CCP. The cultural revolution was the worst thing to ever happen to Chinese cultural history and connection to the past (since destroying that was the entire aim of it). Sun Yat-Sen is a far better example of someone worth venerating as a moderniser who didn't want to destroy everything from the past.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]