10 ms·

For artificial problems, artificial solutions. I think the state of food in the US is really bad, and one cannot compare such products to the superior EU food q

• mistahenry 9mo ago
  I lived in Germany and Indonesia. It’s easier for me now back in the US than ever to eat healthy. I can buy pre-chopped Cole slaw, diced peppers / onions, etc. Whole Foods is best in class (Alnatura doesn’t come close) While to me, the layman, it seems health regulation in general in Europe is more conservative about what can be put on the body / be consumed, I think it’s mostly Americans don’t want to eat healthy. And the portion sizes here are insane (just look at the evolution dinner plate. 1960s plates at an antique sale only pass for salad plates)
  • juujian 9mo ago
    Yes, whole foods is great, but if you look are they locations, name Americans don't have access to one and or cannot afford it.
    • stinkbeetle 9mo ago
      Cause and effect is backward. The locations indicate where people are buying it. And cheap doesn't really add up either because if somebody wants the cheapest possible calories they would be buying rice, flour/pasta, potato... I don't know why the problem is shied away from. It is because people are addicted to fast food and to their sedentary lifestyles. It's not the price or availability of good food, not the first order effect anyway. You'll never be able to force "whole foods" sellers into unprofitable places and if you did by some miracle, you'll never be able to force people to buy it no matter how much money you gave them. Vegetables and grains and basics could be free and many obese food addicts will go buy a burger from a drive thru.
      • bluGill 9mo ago
        Cooking good food takes time. I can slap some pre-made burgers in a pan, throw some buns in a toaster and have a "meal" in 10 minutes. I can stop by fast food on the way and have the same meal (at only slightly more cost) in 5 minutes. I typically spend more than an hour in the kitchen cooking every day, and then there is half an hour clean up after my family is done eating. I eat much better and healthier food, but it takes time. (If I'm having noodles I'm making them from scratch myself - I could save some time buy less of things like that and the cost wouldn't be much different if any - but even then the whole meal takes time).
        • stinkbeetle 9mo ago
          > Cooking good food takes time [...] This does not address what I wrote though because it is not what I was arguing against. I agree part of the reason people buy junk food and fast food rather than "whole food" is because the real or perceived effort required to turn it into something they will eat. Or they don't know how to make things that can compete on taste and satisfy their food addiction like those fast foods. It's not because they are time-poor either. They are just addicted to this sedentary "lazy" lifestyle. 30 minute drive to get fast food and eat it while watching TV or tiktok for the next hour or so beats making food and cleaning up for an hour.
          • budsniffer95 9mo ago
            People do not want to be accountable for what they put in their body. "Cooking is hard. Eating healthy is hard." It's shocking.
        • tonyedgecombe 9mo ago
          The average American spends five hours a day watching television. They could find the time if they wanted.
          • s1artibartfast 9mo ago
            Not poor people, they are too busy to watch TV.
    • Aurornis 9mo ago
      Whole Foods isn’t the only store providing vegetables or pre-cut vegetables. Even my local Walmart has pre-cut vegetables. It’s not an affordability issue either. It’s cheaper to buy the same number of calories from vegetables, fruits, and legumes than meat right now. Meat prices are unusually high and it doesn’t seem to be slowing consumption.
      • SirMaster 9mo ago
        Is it? Chicken breasts are 2.69/lb at my store. I guess it's been creeping up over the years, but doesn't seem unusually high to me.
      • s1artibartfast 9mo ago
        Vegetables are pretty terrible for caloric sustenance. Low density and high price.
        • fhdkweig 9mo ago
          It depends on what you call a vegetable. In the US, corn, potatoes, and ketchup are considered vegetables. You need to make a distinction between leafy greens and starch.
          • rootusrootus 9mo ago
            Well, corn and potatoes are indeed vegetables, so there's that. And I think the only person who ever said ketchup was a vegetable with a straight face was Ronald Reagan 40 or 45 years ago.
            • fhdkweig 9mo ago
              "Eat your vegetables. They're good for you." shouldn't mean dipping your fries in ketchup. But that is what happens if you call corn and potatoes as vegetables.
      • SoftTalker 9mo ago
        My consumption of beef is way down because of the cost. I'm almost exclusively buying poultry and pork now for meat. Occasionally I'll get something like a top round or flank cut if it's on sale.
    • nasmorn 9mo ago
      Also price. What percentile of income do you need to feed a family of 4 on Whole Foods?
  • u_sama 9mo ago
    I think there is argument to be made that the path of least resistance is very different in the US, Europe and Asia. I think maybe by living abroad you have adapted by default to a path (shaped by the environment) to eat more healthy. In the US I heard there is now parity in terms of quality products, but maybe culture takes some time to adapt to such environments.
    • mistahenry 9mo ago
      I agree that when it comes to portion size and whole foods, Europe makes it easy to follow by example. FWIW, I ate healthy in the US before because I rock climbed and needed to maintain a very lean mass. If I wanted to cut weight in Indonesia, it was easy: just eat their portion size, and I'd come in below maintenance. What I've seen consistently amongst the non-healthy eating Americans is that they argue: 1. Dieting requires them to be hard on themselves and they're focusing on self-love, which they struggle with 2. They deserve a daily treat. They look forward to it, it brings meaning, etc 3. The taste of their food is super important to them, such that they can't imagine repetitively eating (meal-prep) or eating cleanly (no added sugar, monitoring sodium)
      • deaux 9mo ago
        > 3. The taste of their food is super important to them, such that they can't imagine repetitively eating (meal-prep) or eating cleanly (no added sugar, monitoring sodium) They're saying this without irony? Or by "important" do they mean "the way I like it"?
      • s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
        Here's some advice on all 3, and I don't even ask you to buy my supplements :) 1. Practicing a healthy diet is self-love 2. A daily treat is not what breaks your diet. Have _a piece_ of chocolate, sweets or snacks now and then. If you (still) lack the self-control to not eat the whole package, help yourself out by repackaging in daily-compatible portions. Meaning is not gained by consuming anyway. 3. Taste preferences are in big parts a matter of habit. Also prepping doesn't necessitate you eat the same thing for a week. You can freeze a lot of things for longer and thaw them in a mixed manner. Imo the issue is that people seem to lack a combination of knowledge, time to prep or motivation. Lack of knowledge could be solved with information campaigns, lack of time/motivation is a consequence of people having to spend so much of their time doing a dayjob just to get by, embedded in a culture that puts no value on thriving humans.
  • jhanschoo 9mo ago
    > I can buy pre-chopped Cole slaw, diced peppers / onions, etc. These accessible food options come with a premium that I strongly suspect put them out of what a median income household can sustainably afford.
    • adgjlsfhk1 9mo ago
      The premium is surprisingly small (primarily because chopped goods ship better and need less protection than whole ones)
    • JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
      > These accessible food options come with a premium On one hand, you a processing step. On the other hand, you can process 'ugly' produce into mince. (Mince also transports more compactly volume-wise.)
    • wil421 9mo ago
      Whole Foods fresh vegetables prices are comparable to elsewhere, same with some dairy. However, everything else carries a premium and for budget minded people you need to avoid it.
    • Aurornis 9mo ago
      > These accessible food options come with a premium that I strongly suspect put them out of what a median income household can sustainably afford. No they don’t. Even my local Walmart has cheap vegetable selections included pre cut versions. You know what is expensive, though? Meat. There’s still plenty of meat consumption in the median household. It’s not a price issue.
      • rootusrootus 9mo ago
        > You know what is expensive, though? Meat. This is no joke. I picked up a 3 pound package of garden variety 80/20 ground beef last week and it was over $20. Maybe I just don't buy it often enough to notice, but that seems far higher than even a few months ago. I would have expected to buy a modest cut of steak for that price.
  • stratocumulus0 9mo ago
    My issue with organic stores in Germany is that they offer the exact same stuff you can get in a regular supermarket, just smaller, less flavorful and more expensive. My pet theory is that a lot of people here just don't really enjoy food, so when they have kids or simply some extra disposable income, their idea of "eating better" would be to have the same bland plate of spaghetti, just with organic pasta and organic sauce.
    • throwaway173738 9mo ago
      Organic tends to have more variability in quality. So sometimes you get really good stuff, sometimes you get really bad stuff. I’ve read that pesticides penetrate a quarter inch into most foods so there’s no way to wash them off. Given that, I try not to buy non-organic food to keep my son from getting a lot of pesticide exposure.
  • gwbas1c 9mo ago
    It's a combination of a few things: There's a massive amount of junk food and ultra-processed food in grocery stores, even though (rough estimate) 50% of floorspace is "raw" food. (Fresh fruits and vegetables, meat, fish.) Processed food tends to have more sugar (high fructose corn syrup) than other countries. The same brand in the US vs another country will have more sugar. Cultural momentum: Everywhere you go there's unhealthy food. --- Speaking from personal experience, junk food is just plan addictive and satisfying. It's not like alcohol or other drugs where you can just abstain; you gotta eat and we all get hungry.
  • FatherOfCurses 9mo ago
    Tons of Americans want to eat healthy but don't have the energy/time/access. It's easy to cook healthy for yourself if you're single, have a good work/life balance, and have a grocery store nearby. There are a lot of Americans who eat fast food on the go because it's their only option (or they haven't been educated on how to get healthy food quickly). Others have lives where job and family responsibilities sap so much energy that by dinner time ordering a pizza is pretty tempting.
    • s1artibartfast 9mo ago
      This is narrative ignores consumer preference. A salad can be delivered as easily as a pizza.
      • phil21 9mo ago
        If you start looking around at the world you will likely start to notice an inverse correlation between those with “little free time due to working three jobs” and the amount of junk they feed their families. Turns out that if you care enough and have the work ethic to grind out that sort of living to better your family, you also tend to care what kind of foods they eat. There are of course seasons in everyone’s lives - but this observation has held generally true no matter the demographic or geographic location I’ve lived around. I was obese - there is no intended judgement here for folks who struggle with it. I did for the better part of my adult life. The social tropes are simply unhelpful.
      • malfist 9mo ago
        Goodluck getting a healthy salad delivered outside of a major metropolitan area. In my city of a quarter million (not huge, not small) the options are pretty much limited to two or three places that only offer high caloric salads
        • s1artibartfast 9mo ago
          Yes, and the reason is that few people want them. There isn't a cabal conspiracy to forgo the profits from offering healthy options. They just dont sell.
  • nkmnz 9mo ago
    lol, Alnatura is the worst. I’d prefer any Netto, Späti, or even the small shops in a gas station, anytime. Alnatura is a para-religious “anthroposophical” shop and everything you buy has low quality due to adverse selection and is overpriced by 3x
  • array_key_first 9mo ago
    When it seems like a lot of people don't want to do something that is obviously good for them but, instead, opt for things they know kill them slowly, that probably means addiction is somewhere in the mix.
• mschwaig 9mo ago
  A consequence of universal healthcare that people don't talk about much is that it turns unhealthy citizens from an individual cost into more of a collective one. So it makes sense that countries with universal healthcare regulate in favor of their citizens as opposed to their food industry, because they're paying for the consequences more directly.
  • u_sama 9mo ago
    This is both an argument in favor of universal healthcare, and my favorite argument for why the US should not implement it without first changing a whole array of perverse incentives.
  • cthor 9mo ago
    Not that this affects the political calculus (where perception may as well be reality), but the cost burden specific to universal healthcare is actually opposite this intuition. Things like obesity, smoking, and alcoholism all kill you before you can get too old. Healthy citizens end up using far more of the far more expensive end-of-life care, to the point where it outweighs the extra healthcare the unhealthy citizens use in their youth.
    • s1mplicissimus 9mo ago
      This sounds like an interesting proposition, do you happen to have the numbers to back it up?
    • samzub 9mo ago
      This (French) study [0] published in 2023 on data from 2019 calculates that the costs from legal drugs such as tobacco and alcohol, including higher helthcare spend during the life of smokers/drinkers, are still higher than revenue from unspent money on pensions and taxes, and cost of healthy person living years. [0] https://www.ofdt.fr/sites/ofdt/files/2023-08/field_media_document-3235-doc_num--explnum_id-34082-.pdf https://www.ofdt.fr/sites/ofdt/files/2023-08/field_media_doc...
    • seeEllArr 9mo ago
• vladvasiliu 9mo ago
  These drugs are expensive and, at least in France, they're discussing offering them. I think this is the main reason explaining the difference in prevalence between the US and the EU. Despite access to "superior food quality", weight issues are absolutely a problem in the EU, too. Maybe it's not at the same point as in the US, but 51% of the population of the EU (outside Ireland and Germany for some reason) are "overweight or obese" [0]. --- [0] https://drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/publications-communique-de-presse/les-dossiers-de-la-drees/240717_DD-Surpoids-Obesit%C3%A9 https://drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/publications-communi... In French, from the ministry of health, but there's a chart which should be clear enough for everybody.
  • u_sama 9mo ago
    There are valid counterarguments to the overweight values, a lot of women who might be overweight are healthy because different % of fat are acceptable depending on the structure of the body. I agree, that has to do with "malbouffe" and other lifestyle choices. As for offering them that is a nice thing, but I am curious about the mechanics (mutuelles) and such of the medicine.
    • Aurornis 9mo ago
      > a lot of women who might be overweight are healthy because different % of fat are acceptable depending on the structure of the body This is a tired argument. Most people who have BMI in the obese range do not have one of oft-cited exceptions that make BMI an imperfect measure. Everyone knows BMI is imperfect at this point, but the number of people who have BMI in the obesity range yet have healthy body composition is very small.
      • u_sama 9mo ago
        Let it be noted that I have said overweight and not obese, if you are in the obese category you are 100% unhealthy (even the bodybuilders who inject stereoirs in this category are unhealthy).
        • 9mo ago
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• davidmurdoch 9mo ago
  Meanwhile, YUM foods is probably working overtime trying to find a way to work around the effects of GLP-1.
  • CGMthrowaway 9mo ago
    I saw a Taco Bell ad for new "luxury" meal boxes. So perhaps their solution is to move up-market and high-margin
    • WorldMaker 9mo ago
      Demolition Man said Taco Bell would be fine dining by 2032, they might be on schedule. (It also said they'd be just about the last restaurant left, though.)
• staticassertion 9mo ago
  > I think the state of food in the US is really bad, and one cannot compare such products to the superior EU food quality standards What quality standards are you referring to?
• gedy 9mo ago
  Most out of shape guy I know is German fellow who likes "healthy food".
• acuozzo 9mo ago
  > I think the state of food in the US is really bad Or, perhaps, the state of mental health in the US is really bad.
• mathgradthrow 9mo ago
  Food is wayyyy better in America than Europe, are you kidding? Why do you think we're so fat?