4 ms·

You still need 2 deviations above the average college student to get to med school. As a rough proxy for intelligence. The bottom threshold for doctors is certa

by gmadsen 9mo ago

You still need 2 deviations above the average college student to get to med school. As a rough proxy for intelligence. The bottom threshold for doctors is certainly higher than lawyers

HPsquared 9mo ago
It doesn't matter how intelligent they are, if they only have 5 minutes to spend on your case.
unsupp0rted 9mo ago
[flagged]
- kulahan 9mo ago
  Huh? So your complaint is that you keep getting black doctors? That’s dumb, but whatever - why not just… get a white doctor? Or Asian or whatever you think is the smart one?
  - unsupp0rted 9mo ago
    [flagged]
  - nomel 9mo ago
    This is where their perspective comes from: https://www.thecollegefix.com/med-schools-still-accept-black-students-with-lower-mcats-than-rejected-asians-whites https://www.thecollegefix.com/med-schools-still-accept-black... This has been going on for 20 years: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1120616/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1120616/ Black students (among other minorities) with unacceptable MCAT (as in, if another race had them they would be rejected) are accepted, at a rate 6-10x more likely to be admitted with similar scores. The motivation is that doctors should match the demographic they treat, and minority doctors are underrepresented, so should be accepted at higher rates: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/clinical-outcomes-patients-surgeons-concordance https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/clinical-outcomes-pa... The obvious outcome is that minorities students, being less prepared as measured by MCAT and somewhat setup for failure, have a much higher failure rate, with black students being 85% more likely to leave medical school than white: https://news.yale.edu/2023/07/31/black-md-phd-students-experience-higher-rates-attrition-peers https://news.yale.edu/2023/07/31/black-md-phd-students-exper... USMLE scores have been changed to pass/fail, to hide the actual score, to help prevent rejection of minority students who previously would have been rejected: https://n-age.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Test-of-Diversity-—-What-USMLE-Pass_Fail-Scoring-Means-for-Medicine.pdf https://n-age.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Test-of-Diversity-—-W... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0090429524000098 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00904... The system was, as is the stated goal by all, setup to pass minority students that would have previously been rejected, at every step of them becoming a doctor, to provide a net positive for minority populations, since it's accepted that you'll get the best outcome if your doctor is the same race as you.
    - kulahan 9mo ago
      I feel like only the last paragraph was relevant here - I don’t particularly care why he wants a doctor of race X instead of Y. My question remains the same: why not just… get a doctor with the skin color you prefer? You’re not exactly assigned one for life at birth.
      - nomel 9mo ago
        I think you're bringing up a different (very related) point than him, with both points having truth: 1. You're free to pick the race of your doctor. Matching your race is a data driven positive. 2. 30 years ago, the system made sure a minority doctor was (at least, but probably more so do to discrimination) as competent as a white doctor. These days, the system is intentionally and deliberately set up so to help pass less competent minority students, due to the positives of #1. It's a mushy relative thing.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
    - unsupp0rted 9mo ago
      Thank you, this is it exactly. And my biggest concern isn't the % of unprepared students who leave medical school. It's the % who stay and get passed through. "You know what they call the most unqualified insert-identity-here person in the med school class of 2025 who squeezed by because it would look bad if they didn't?" "Dr." Which is why 99% AI-driven diagnosis can't come fast enough.
threethirtytwo 9mo ago
It’s 120 to 130 which is similar to engineers. They aren’t that much smarter. The selection criteria is more about the ability to handle pressure than it is about raw intelligence. Tons of bottom feeders go to medical schools in say Kansas, so there’s a lot of leeway here in terms of intelligence.
- nradov 9mo ago
  What a weird comment. There are several good medical schools in Kansas. In particular the University of Kansas School of Medicine is top notch.
  - threethirtytwo 9mo ago
    Only wierd for you because you got triggered by the Kansas part. In general the comment is true. There’s a school in Kansas that sits right on top of Caribbean schools in terms of reputation. I know several people who had to go there.
    - nradov 9mo ago
      In general your comment was false. You're just lying and making things up. There are lower-tier medical schools in California, Massachusetts, and most every other state. The state, whether it's Kansas or somewhere else, is almost totally irrelevant to the quality of physicians produced.
      - threethirtytwo 9mo ago
        No I'm not. I'm referring to a specific bad school(s) in kansas. I never made a comment about Kansas itself. I never said the state is correlated with the quality of the doctor, or even if the quality of the school is associated with the quality of the doctor. You made that up. Which makes you the liar.
        nradov 9mo ago

by gmadsen 9mo ago

You still need 2 deviations above the average college student to get to med school. As a rough proxy for intelligence. The bottom threshold for doctors is certainly higher than lawyers

HPsquared 9mo ago

It doesn't matter how intelligent they are, if they only have 5 minutes to spend on your case.

unsupp0rted 9mo ago

[flagged]

kulahan 9mo ago
Huh? So your complaint is that you keep getting black doctors? That’s dumb, but whatever - why not just… get a white doctor? Or Asian or whatever you think is the smart one?
- unsupp0rted 9mo ago
  [flagged]
- nomel 9mo ago
  This is where their perspective comes from: https://www.thecollegefix.com/med-schools-still-accept-black-students-with-lower-mcats-than-rejected-asians-whites https://www.thecollegefix.com/med-schools-still-accept-black... This has been going on for 20 years: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1120616/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1120616/ Black students (among other minorities) with unacceptable MCAT (as in, if another race had them they would be rejected) are accepted, at a rate 6-10x more likely to be admitted with similar scores. The motivation is that doctors should match the demographic they treat, and minority doctors are underrepresented, so should be accepted at higher rates: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/clinical-outcomes-patients-surgeons-concordance https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/clinical-outcomes-pa... The obvious outcome is that minorities students, being less prepared as measured by MCAT and somewhat setup for failure, have a much higher failure rate, with black students being 85% more likely to leave medical school than white: https://news.yale.edu/2023/07/31/black-md-phd-students-experience-higher-rates-attrition-peers https://news.yale.edu/2023/07/31/black-md-phd-students-exper... USMLE scores have been changed to pass/fail, to hide the actual score, to help prevent rejection of minority students who previously would have been rejected: https://n-age.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Test-of-Diversity-—-What-USMLE-Pass_Fail-Scoring-Means-for-Medicine.pdf https://n-age.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Test-of-Diversity-—-W... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0090429524000098 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00904... The system was, as is the stated goal by all, setup to pass minority students that would have previously been rejected, at every step of them becoming a doctor, to provide a net positive for minority populations, since it's accepted that you'll get the best outcome if your doctor is the same race as you.
  - kulahan 9mo ago
    I feel like only the last paragraph was relevant here - I don’t particularly care why he wants a doctor of race X instead of Y. My question remains the same: why not just… get a doctor with the skin color you prefer? You’re not exactly assigned one for life at birth.
    - nomel 9mo ago
      I think you're bringing up a different (very related) point than him, with both points having truth: 1. You're free to pick the race of your doctor. Matching your race is a data driven positive. 2. 30 years ago, the system made sure a minority doctor was (at least, but probably more so do to discrimination) as competent as a white doctor. These days, the system is intentionally and deliberately set up so to help pass less competent minority students, due to the positives of #1. It's a mushy relative thing.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - unsupp0rted 9mo ago
    Thank you, this is it exactly. And my biggest concern isn't the % of unprepared students who leave medical school. It's the % who stay and get passed through. "You know what they call the most unqualified insert-identity-here person in the med school class of 2025 who squeezed by because it would look bad if they didn't?" "Dr." Which is why 99% AI-driven diagnosis can't come fast enough.

threethirtytwo 9mo ago

It’s 120 to 130 which is similar to engineers. They aren’t that much smarter. The selection criteria is more about the ability to handle pressure than it is about raw intelligence. Tons of bottom feeders go to medical schools in say Kansas, so there’s a lot of leeway here in terms of intelligence.

nradov 9mo ago
What a weird comment. There are several good medical schools in Kansas. In particular the University of Kansas School of Medicine is top notch.
- threethirtytwo 9mo ago
  Only wierd for you because you got triggered by the Kansas part. In general the comment is true. There’s a school in Kansas that sits right on top of Caribbean schools in terms of reputation. I know several people who had to go there.
  - nradov 9mo ago
    In general your comment was false. You're just lying and making things up. There are lower-tier medical schools in California, Massachusetts, and most every other state. The state, whether it's Kansas or somewhere else, is almost totally irrelevant to the quality of physicians produced.
    - threethirtytwo 9mo ago
      No I'm not. I'm referring to a specific bad school(s) in kansas. I never made a comment about Kansas itself. I never said the state is correlated with the quality of the doctor, or even if the quality of the school is associated with the quality of the doctor. You made that up. Which makes you the liar.
      - nradov 9mo ago