5 ms·

Nadella was the one who fired Microsoft's QA team for Windows. It took a while but those chickens finally came home to roost. https://www.computerworld.com/art

Nadella was the one who fired Microsoft's QA team for Windows. It took a while but those chickens finally came home to roost. https://www.computerworld.com/article/1626871/microsoft-to-business-dont-worry-about-windows-10-consumers-will-test-it-2.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/1626871/microsoft-to-b... This one youtuber, I forget his name, was fired as part of that layoff. He had a son with severe Autism and Microsoft's health benefits were very important to him.

bsimpson 9mo ago
There's a long-circulating mind virus that makes executives believe top-tier engineers don't need their software tested. Google's QA is pitiful too.
- hnthrowaway0328 9mo ago
  They have long adopted the mindset to get users as free beta testers. Long gone the tradition that quality matters.
- Seattle3503 9mo ago
  It's always the departments that are closest to the customer that pay the price in my experience. At one company, after killing QA, the support team created their own internal QA process. They were going to deal with the issues anyways, so they wanted to catch as many as they could first.
- ahartmetz 9mo ago
  In case of some recent Windows parts, that would need to be compounded by the mistaken belief to have top-tier engineers working for them.
frde_me 9mo ago
> He had a son with severe Autism and Microsoft's health benefits were very important to him. This really sucks for him. Through should Microsoft _not_ layoff specific people due to health conditions? Is that something we require from companies?
- bowsamic 9mo ago
  Yes I’d say that such people should get extra protections
  - kwanbix 9mo ago
    In europe (at least in Germany), they do get extra protection.
    - CrimsonRain 9mo ago
      And that's why people think 5 times before hiring such. It's already super hard to fire people unless they make gross mistakes. It's nearly impossible to fire someone like that. It's stupid.
      - kakacik 9mo ago
        Its not stupid rather humane, just very ineffective from economical perspective. You want society where its everybody for themselves, fuck the rest, be lucky with ie your health so you and your family can have a decent life and one problem big enough can wipe you out? The benefit is more money, economy works better, is more agile to ever-changing situation. Just those extra money often go to that healthcare (since we all end up with various issues over time, the only exception is early death), or university for kids, or cost of properties. Or something glacial, without real pressure to improve, more poor, but with additional safety nets. I keep saying it over and over - EU should take over system (and mindset, good luck there) of Swiss folks. They strike the best balance between predatory capitalism that often grinds unlucky individuals and various safety nets (free top notch public education, almost free public healthcare, very good but not ridiculous social system etc). Unsurprisingly, mix of European competency and a bit of proper capitalism creates one of best stable living standards in the world, and arguably still The most free nation in the world (TM). Its a place that french or germans just can't swallow - neighbor showing them how much better a similar society can end up functioning with few rather minor tweaks.
        9mo ago
WalterBright 9mo ago
COBRA enables one to continue with the employer's insurance for up to 18 months after a layoff.
- trollbridge 9mo ago
  Yes, because it’s easy to afford $2000 or $3000 a month when you just got laid off.
  - WalterBright 9mo ago
    Microsoft pays well. The prudent move is to not increase spending until saving up at a bare minimum 6 months of "runway". I live in Washington. My accountant told me stories, one of which was a Microsoftian who got the big job, and promptly bought the most expensive house he could swing. He soon ran into trouble because he didn't have enough left to pay the property tax, and was forced to sell it. BTW, Microsoft has unusually generous benefits for autism. Many autism clinics have sprouted up around the campus to take advantage of that. Never, ever, EVER assume that a high paying job is a guarantee for life.
    - csdreamer7 9mo ago
      > Microsoft pays well. The prudent move is to not increase spending until saving up at a bare minimum 6 months of "runway". > I live in Washington. My accountant told me stories, one of which was a Microsoftian who got the big job, and promptly bought the most expensive house he could swing. He soon ran into trouble because he didn't have enough left to pay the property tax, and was forced to sell it. > Never, ever, EVER assume that a high paying job is a guarantee for life. I do not know why you wrote this. This wasn't a guy who blew all his money on a big house and was forced to sell it when he lost his job. The guy's kid was born with a low functioning level of Autism that required expensive therapy to treat. You do not choose that. He had savings, but he may be taking care of the kid for the rest of his life. What is he suppose to do? Eat ramen to save up 40 years of out of pocket therapy treatment when he was fired from a position that Microsoft should have kept? No, that is ridiculous.
SlightlyLeftPad 9mo ago
Was he the reason shift-left hit mainstream? Recently, smaller non-faang companies followed suit and fired all the qa people. DevOps/SRE people are likely next.
AstroNutt 9mo ago
Jerry Berg is the person you're probably thinking of. His YouTube channel is Barnacules Nerdgasm. He's a super smart programmer, but seems to be suffering from depression since Microsoft laid him off. He often talks about his issues when he livestreams Tech Talk on Saturdays.
- csdreamer7 9mo ago
  > Jerry Berg is the person you're probably thinking of. His YouTube channel is Barnacules Nerdgasm. Ty, that is him.
GuB-42 9mo ago
Well, you have two distinct problems here. One is Microsoft releasing shitty software. The other is a deeper societal problem with healthcare and loyalty between companies and their employees. For me, they are unrelated problems. In a welfare state, the QA team may have been reaffected to some other tasks within the company and have the health benefits provided by the state, but it wouldn't have made the software less shitty.

bsimpson 9mo ago

There's a long-circulating mind virus that makes executives believe top-tier engineers don't need their software tested. Google's QA is pitiful too.

hnthrowaway0328 9mo ago
They have long adopted the mindset to get users as free beta testers. Long gone the tradition that quality matters.
Seattle3503 9mo ago
It's always the departments that are closest to the customer that pay the price in my experience. At one company, after killing QA, the support team created their own internal QA process. They were going to deal with the issues anyways, so they wanted to catch as many as they could first.
ahartmetz 9mo ago
In case of some recent Windows parts, that would need to be compounded by the mistaken belief to have top-tier engineers working for them.

frde_me 9mo ago

> He had a son with severe Autism and Microsoft's health benefits were very important to him. This really sucks for him. Through should Microsoft _not_ layoff specific people due to health conditions? Is that something we require from companies?

bowsamic 9mo ago
Yes I’d say that such people should get extra protections
- kwanbix 9mo ago
  In europe (at least in Germany), they do get extra protection.
  - CrimsonRain 9mo ago
    And that's why people think 5 times before hiring such. It's already super hard to fire people unless they make gross mistakes. It's nearly impossible to fire someone like that. It's stupid.
    - kakacik 9mo ago
      Its not stupid rather humane, just very ineffective from economical perspective. You want society where its everybody for themselves, fuck the rest, be lucky with ie your health so you and your family can have a decent life and one problem big enough can wipe you out? The benefit is more money, economy works better, is more agile to ever-changing situation. Just those extra money often go to that healthcare (since we all end up with various issues over time, the only exception is early death), or university for kids, or cost of properties. Or something glacial, without real pressure to improve, more poor, but with additional safety nets. I keep saying it over and over - EU should take over system (and mindset, good luck there) of Swiss folks. They strike the best balance between predatory capitalism that often grinds unlucky individuals and various safety nets (free top notch public education, almost free public healthcare, very good but not ridiculous social system etc). Unsurprisingly, mix of European competency and a bit of proper capitalism creates one of best stable living standards in the world, and arguably still The most free nation in the world (TM). Its a place that french or germans just can't swallow - neighbor showing them how much better a similar society can end up functioning with few rather minor tweaks.
      - 9mo ago

WalterBright 9mo ago

COBRA enables one to continue with the employer's insurance for up to 18 months after a layoff.

trollbridge 9mo ago
Yes, because it’s easy to afford $2000 or $3000 a month when you just got laid off.
- WalterBright 9mo ago
  Microsoft pays well. The prudent move is to not increase spending until saving up at a bare minimum 6 months of "runway". I live in Washington. My accountant told me stories, one of which was a Microsoftian who got the big job, and promptly bought the most expensive house he could swing. He soon ran into trouble because he didn't have enough left to pay the property tax, and was forced to sell it. BTW, Microsoft has unusually generous benefits for autism. Many autism clinics have sprouted up around the campus to take advantage of that. Never, ever, EVER assume that a high paying job is a guarantee for life.
  - csdreamer7 9mo ago
    > Microsoft pays well. The prudent move is to not increase spending until saving up at a bare minimum 6 months of "runway". > I live in Washington. My accountant told me stories, one of which was a Microsoftian who got the big job, and promptly bought the most expensive house he could swing. He soon ran into trouble because he didn't have enough left to pay the property tax, and was forced to sell it. > Never, ever, EVER assume that a high paying job is a guarantee for life. I do not know why you wrote this. This wasn't a guy who blew all his money on a big house and was forced to sell it when he lost his job. The guy's kid was born with a low functioning level of Autism that required expensive therapy to treat. You do not choose that. He had savings, but he may be taking care of the kid for the rest of his life. What is he suppose to do? Eat ramen to save up 40 years of out of pocket therapy treatment when he was fired from a position that Microsoft should have kept? No, that is ridiculous.

SlightlyLeftPad 9mo ago

Was he the reason shift-left hit mainstream? Recently, smaller non-faang companies followed suit and fired all the qa people. DevOps/SRE people are likely next.

AstroNutt 9mo ago

Jerry Berg is the person you're probably thinking of. His YouTube channel is Barnacules Nerdgasm. He's a super smart programmer, but seems to be suffering from depression since Microsoft laid him off. He often talks about his issues when he livestreams Tech Talk on Saturdays.

csdreamer7 9mo ago
> Jerry Berg is the person you're probably thinking of. His YouTube channel is Barnacules Nerdgasm. Ty, that is him.

GuB-42 9mo ago

Well, you have two distinct problems here. One is Microsoft releasing shitty software. The other is a deeper societal problem with healthcare and loyalty between companies and their employees. For me, they are unrelated problems. In a welfare state, the QA team may have been reaffected to some other tasks within the company and have the health benefits provided by the state, but it wouldn't have made the software less shitty.