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As a Latino and friend of several people that scaped from Maduro's regime I can easily say that people in South America are happy as ever. Also, some people se
by SchwKatze 10mo ago
As a Latino and friend of several people that scaped from Maduro's regime I can easily say that people in South America are happy as ever.
Also, some people seems to miss the fact that South America military power is very weak, and we, culturally, are way less proned to fight and die than people in middle east.
Yeah, we know this is all about oil, and I'm interested to know what kind of democracy will emerge. But the fact is we don't have a, undeniable, dictator as neighbor, and my friends can see their families again.
- tgv 10mo agoThis is hardly a regime change. Only Maduro has been captured, the rest is still in power.
- kantord 10mo agoit is very early to tell what it is
- tgv 10mo agoIt is, and I understand the hope, but Maduro wasn't a good replacement for Chavez, yet he persisted because of the support of the rest of the regime. I hope for the best, but this is not an auspicious beginning.
- KaiserPro 10mo agoKidnapping a leader is a regime change. When a coup happens you topple the leader. But now we are looking at a civil war, if we are lucky.
- tmcz26 10mo agoDemocracy emerge? Good luck.
- rayiner 10mo agoVenezuela had a democratic-ish government before they voted for Chavez.
- themaninthedark 10mo agoOn a side note, it was kind of strange watching the media dance around what Chavez was doing. When he first took power and started seizing money and power it was all framed as he is demolishing the corrupt institutions. Then as election irregularities started happening and the economy started failing, the blame was placed on the U.S for boycotting them.
- tmcz26 10mo agoSo did the US before Trump 2 :)
- waffleiron 10mo agoAnd I am a non-American with friends from the US that surely would be happy if someone assassinated Trump. That doesn't make it a good thing.
- kypro 10mo agoTrump is the elected leader of the US though. There's a huge difference there. For example, if Trump doesn't step down in 2028 then we should hope someone does take him out.
- braiamp 10mo agoOf a electoral system that makes sure that the votes of the few are worth more than those of the plenty. We democracies actually make sure that all votes are worth the same.
- vips7L 10mo agoThe whole system is flawed. We need national popular vote and a proportional representation system put in place.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- wood_spirit 10mo agoHis loyalty test for subordinates is saying that he beat Biden in 2020…
- waffleiron 10mo agoHe does seem to be invading other countries without popular support? One can find a reason (especially post-hoc) to allow, or disallow, any intervention. The US in cases like this just picks whatever is convenient. Dictator matters here, but in Saudi Arabia it doesn't.
- MrBuddyCasino 10mo ago[flagged]
- christkv 10mo agoFixing the dilapidated oil production will take years I think. But my best wishes to all my Venezuelan friends. Hoping for a bloodless transition and a brighter future for the country.
- reaperducer 10mo agoYeah, we know this is all about oil "War for oil" is always the easy go-to to criticize any American military action, even in countries that don't have oil. And while Venezuela has oodles of oil, is this really the case of America wanting Venezuelan oil? America has more oil than it knows what to do with, and because of that, prices are so low that there are lots of newspaper articles about how American oil companies have dramatically slowed exploration and production. Plus, even under the current administration, America is using more and more renewable energy sources (some states now get more than 50% of their energy from wind/solar). With the whole Chevron situation, I'm willing to think that oil may play a role here, but again the "war for oil" seems like nothing more than a convenient slogan for a high schooler's protest sign.
- letmetweakit 10mo agoThe more credible narrative is Trump and co trying to do good for the Venezuelans and for the regular US folks! /s
- aisio 10mo agoAmerica has plenty of the wrong type of oil. They need heavy oil as that's what the usa oil refinery are made to handle, but they have a shortage of heavy oil, and a oversupply of light oil. Venezuela has the heavy oil they need
- monerozcash 10mo agoThere's not loads of idle refinery capability just waiting for more Venezuelan crude in the US.
- didntknowyou 10mo agointeresting how they say it's about drug trafficking but then keeps confiscaating oil tankers tho?
- rayiner 10mo agoThere are sanctions on Venezuelan oil due to the drug trafficking. The oil tankers are captured to punish violations of the sanctions. We don’t capture and appreciable amount of oil this way. And in fact the sanctions drive up the price of oil.
- kypro 10mo agoThat's good to hear. As a European, I do hope our leaders keep this in mind... It may be an unconventional move, but it's hard to argue this is a bad outcome. I get the concern about forever wars some are raising, but this clearly isn't going to be a forever war for the reasons you state. Plus if the US secures some oil and the Venezuela people get to live better lives, that's ultimately a great outcome for everyone. It's controversial to say these days, but I think this is exactly how the West should be using it's military force – to promote democracy and freedom around the world.
- hoppp 10mo agoAnd bomb civilians?
- hvb2 10mo ago> I get the concern about forever wars some are raising, but this clearly isn't going to be a forever war for the reasons you state. Plus if the US secures some oil Why would the US be entitled to any oil here? And how would that be a good outcome for the people of Venezuela? > and the Venezuela people get to live better lives, that's ultimately a great outcome for everyone. That's a big if. Ask the Iraqis how well it went when their dictator was gone. And that was with boots on the ground not just leaving a power vacuum like this. > It's controversial to say these days, but I think this is exactly how the West should be using it's military force – to promote democracy and freedom around the world. Wait a few decades till China does this to you and we'll see how you feel.
- simianparrot 10mo agoChina will and is doing this through their own means. I’d rather our guys, with the values I hold, win and get there first. If you think the EU’s “diplomacy over force” approach will deter anyone, look at Ukraine.
- hvb2 10mo agoI meant does this to the US or any other country. The precedent that's being set is that you can just fly in and kidnap a head of state that you disagree with. > If you think the EU’s “diplomacy over force” approach will deter anyone, look at Ukraine. Enlighten me, what's the policy of the USA as of last year? Because I honestly don't know. It depends who the guy last talked to. That's American foreign policy now, no plan, all based on the irrational behavior of an 80 year old.
- didntknowyou 10mo ago[ ok let's just say ] it's a one side deal
- smashah 10mo ago[flagged]
- hoppp 10mo agoSounds like you ok with genocide in your neighbourhood tho. How they see their families if they get bombed?
- yoavm 10mo agoI think you're severely cheapening the definition of a genocide.
- hoppp 10mo agoI am saying it too early? If USA bombs civilians because they are Venezuelan thats genocide. If USA bombs civilians because they want to overthrow the government that's a war crime. I know the difference, its about attacking a group by ethnicity.
- braiamp 10mo agoNo, we are not happy. We were not happy when they intervened and installed their friendly dictator. I can criticize Maduro and I can censure these actions. I don't want any other country to invade mine because they didn't like the government that we had.
- dannyfreeman 10mo ago> I'm interested to know what kind of democracy will emerge If history teaches us anything, a democracy won't emerge. Nothing good comes from the US intervening in foreign affairs. This is being done to the benefit of the invaders, not those being invaded.
- troad 10mo ago>> Nothing good comes from the US intervening in foreign affairs. Idk, I sure prefer Germany / Japan circa 2026 to Germany / Japan circa 1936. The last time the US did something similar was in Panama in 1989, and that country seems to be a thriving democracy now. Too early to know how this will play out, but things are more nuanced than you're suggesting.
- Yasuraka 10mo ago> The last time the US did something similar was in Panama in 1989 Libya
- dannyfreeman 10mo agoA key difference is that we didn't act alone in World War II, and we were fighting very legitimate aggression (fascism).
- random9749832 10mo agoYou are still young so you don't seem to get it yet but history has shown that killing or capturing the leader of a country with outside actors rarely leads to anything good. It usually just leads to more instability. Pop-culture shows you that if you get rid off Mojo Jojo you suddenly get rainbows and flowers but reality doesn't work that way very often and it is just propaganda.
- jonifico 10mo agoColombian here. Maduro wasn't the leader of a country; he lost the elections and became a cruel dictator. He led a regime that murdered, tortured, and disappeared thousands of people, turning Venezuela into a narco-state run by the ELN and other paramilitary groups. It may not have worked in other areas, but the US intervention in Panama, which resulted in the capture of another dictator, Noriega, transformed Panama into the fastest-growing economy in Latin America (6% average annual growth). Poverty fell by 60%, and today it's a very prosperous country. I can assure that there will be massive celebrations today by all our Venezuelan brothers and sisters living in Latin America. Edit: I just discovered that Noriega was also captured on January 3rd.
- random9749832 10mo agoWell it didn't take long for Trump to announce he now runs Venezuela to plant US companies to export oil to the US. Once you understand American foreign policy it is just predictable.
- the_af 9mo ago> Maduro wasn't the leader of a country Maduro was the leader of the country. Leadership is a practical matter, it doesn't depend on elections or democracy. Stalin wasn't elected either, and nobody says "he wasn't the leader of the USSR". Likewise, there are leaders of countries who weren't elected that are currently aligned with the US, and nobody claims those leaders aren't the leaders. A dictator or a king aren't elected, but sometimes they are leaders nonetheless. They are leaders if they de facto lead their countries/kingdoms. If insurgents wrestle control, they cease being leaders.
- agumonkey 10mo agoit's a positive step for the population, my worry is about global signalling.. we were trying to keep the armed fascists floodgates tight since putin invaded ukraine and now US is doing bold military regime changes, not even covert (some would argue old CIA was worse). hard to sleep well these days ps: if anybody knows places where people discuss this, feel free to hit me
- SchwKatze 10mo agoYeah, totally agree. Like anything that matters this is a complex topic with multiple reasons to each move in this game, my positive position towards what happened is pretty much related to the reactions of my Venezuelans friends and my personal perception of how people has suffered with Maduro's regime.
- jordanb 10mo agoYes I'm quite sure the Venezuelans are greeting us as liberators.
- SchwKatze 10mo agoYeah, they are [1] 1- https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/venezuelanos-vao-as-ruas-em-santiago-e-comemoram-a-captura-de-maduro/ https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/internacional/venezuelanos-vao-...
- jordanb 10mo agoWell color me impressed the CIA managed less than 24 hours turnaround on their dancing locals images! I'm disappointed we didn't get anything like the toppled statue in Baghdad but what can you expect with a rush job? At this rate I assume they'll have the "mission accomplished" banner up by Tuesday.
- DrBazza 10mo agoPublicly, it's about oil, privately, it's also about China getting a foothold in South America, on the USA's doorstep and denying them a source of cheap oil from the world's largest proven reserve. It's the modern version of the Great Game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game
- thomassmith65 10mo agoIt's the international community who should decide this sort of thing. Did the UN agree to this invasion? Nations aren't supposed to unilaterally attack other nations.
- thomassmith65 10mo agoMy comment is locked, but I wanted to conclude: I'm too ignorant of Venezuelan politics to know if removing Maduro benefits Venezuelans, in practice. I'd sleep easier if the Trump administration had done this by the book (approval from US Congress, and from the international community)
- the_af 10mo ago> As a Latino and friend of several people that scaped from Maduro's regime I can easily say that people in South America are happy as ever. No, we aren't. You don't speak for the majority of us.