7 ms·

What if you're married? Does it still make sense, if you know you won't ever be sleeping with a new partner?

by peab 10mo ago

timr 10mo ago
A question for your doctor and your partner (and of course, you can read the data in the link I posted above and use that to influence your conversation and decision!) I'm not being avoidant here -- medical decisions are always subjective and multi-factor, and I can't begin to tell you what you should do. (But I also sincerely believe that propagandists try to reduce nuanced data to talking points, which is equally wrong.) Please note the caveat about gender that I just added. The data for biological men and women are very different. Also, I haven't discussed risks at all, which is the other side of the ledger -- these vaccines are pretty darned safe, but everything comes with risk, and only you can decide what level of risk is appropriate for your life.
- rawgabbit 10mo ago
  I usually am pro vaccine. But the HPV vaccine discussion seems politicized to me. As someone who is monogamous and over fifty, I had trouble following the risk vs reward discussion. The CDC says it is only recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative.
  - electriclove 10mo ago
    Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.
    - daveungerer 10mo ago
      > Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?
      - electriclove 9mo ago
        My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
        jamiek88 9mo ago
        You don’t own your children.
        electriclove 9mo ago
        You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
        jamiek88 9mo ago
        The way you talk about your children like they are livestock is gross.
    - NikolaNovak 10mo ago
      I don't want to assume, so I'll ask if you're willing to share - are you making the implicit assumption that your kids are and/or will be monogamous, and is that assumption a key factor in your decision on their vaccinations?
      - electriclove 9mo ago
        The CDC recommendation to get it at 11 or 12 does not make sense to me. I know they aren’t having sex - and I know that some kids do. We will discuss, together, the pros/cons as they get older to see if it makes sense. As they get older, they’ll make these decisions themselves. Until then, I’m weighing the pros/cons and in our case, it doesn’t seem they are at risk in the near future.
        cwillu 9mo ago
        You know “sexual contact” is not the same thing as sexual intercourse, right?
        electriclove 9mo ago
        Sure. Do you assume all kids are having sexual contact and need to be vaccinated for this at a young age?
        zerocrates 9mo ago
        The early recommendation age just falls out of the data that shows the vaccine is substantially more effective if you haven't been infected yet, together with the fact that it's a multi-dose vaccine where the second dose comes months later, and realistically for many that's going to mean a year or more before completing the series. I think there's truth to the idea that the specific 11-12 range is somewhat arbitrary: as much as anything it's that because there was a preexisting "slot" in the vaccine schedule at 11-12. The American Academy of Pediatrics differs from the CDC's panel on this... but on the earlier side: they would start the recommendation at age 9. I think to a significant degree the thinking there is that if you go earlier the messaging and reaction is more "your child will probably eventually have sex and this is an effective time to give the vaccine" and less "your child will be having sex like, tomorrow."
    - LorenPechtel 9mo ago
      And herein lies the problem--you are trying to decree their sexuality. Not your choice.
      - electriclove 9mo ago
        Are you a parent? We might just be raised differently. And I can accept that you might raise your kids differently.
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        I am a parent who vaccinated my daughter at 9 for HPV, and my son will be vaccinated as soon as he’s old enough, without delay or hesitation. It is my opinion you are doing a disservice to your children with a suboptimal mental model, potentially driven by emotion instead of data. Your children will have sexual contact with another human eventually as they grow into adults, and there is very low risk with an HPV vaccine. There is, in my opinion, no reason not to vaccinate as soon as possible (considering the material reduction in future cancer risk, and that there is no cure once infected, only prevention via vaccination). You might have feelings, as many have strong feelings, but they won’t matter once your kids are 18 and you no longer control them. Google the stats on parental estrangement. Try to do better, you are a guardian of your children, not an owner, and your values will potentially not be their values. I don’t care with who or when my children have sexual experiences with once they are old enough to consent, what matters is they are respected, as well as protected from harm and poor health outcomes from these experiences they will certainly have eventually during their lifetimes. If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. So, protect them from what you can, which in this case is HPV.
        apparent 9mo ago
        > Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage. If you give your kid a vaccine that is primarily meant for people who do not do this, you are letting your kid know that you don't really have faith in them. That sends a strong message that some people do not want to send. As GP said, you're free to raise your kids different, and if you don't place value on reserving sex for marriage, it would make sense that you would do differently.
  - tialaramex 10mo ago
    All vaccination is now heavily politicized in the US. HPV vaccination was an obvious focal point initially because of why we'd do it when we do. The initial data says you should vaccinate somewhere around 12-14 year old girls because most of them will be HPV naive but if you wait longer they won't be any more. But too many US parents cannot imagine their little girl ever having sex and if they never have sex they almost certainly won't contract HPV so, why are we vaccinating them? Are you trying to make my daughter a slut? If you've been a teenage American this should strike you as very silly, and doubly so if you understand biology. Teenage girls are not, in fact, celibate by default, so some of them will get horny. And if you understand biology the viral infections aren't caused by the same mechanism as pregnancy "sexual activity" is a shorthand, you can easily get infected while steering clear of anything that would get somebody knocked up. A peck on grandma's cheek is unlikely to work, but if you're sucking face for most of a Stranger Things episode that's definitely enough that you might contract HPV.
  - wolvoleo 10mo ago
    Of course if you're monogamous sure. But I'm also 50 and very polyamorous so for me it was a no brainer getting it.
  - robocat 9mo ago
    > recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative. You need to be careful making assumptions. Previously that recommendation was due to limited vaccine production and trying to prioritize young women. There were CDC recommendations during covid that were not about what was best for you individually. As always with health, the right answer is to seek professional advice. But also to take personal responsibility for your own choices (that depend on your specific circumstances).
Moto7451 10mo ago
You get to make your own health choices here, but as someone who got the vaccine in my 30s, I am glad as I didn’t know about my future divorce when I got vaccinated.
- electriclove 10mo ago
  Couldn’t you have gotten the vaccine after your divorce if you wanted?
  - Ensorceled 10mo ago
    You are presuming that people are monogamous up until their divorce when infidelity is one of the top reasons for divorce.
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      Is it that uncommon for people to be monogamous?
  - scarecrowbob 10mo ago
    Consider that it's possible that the person's partner may have exposed them to their then-unknown extra partners, creating one of the conditions for the divorce.
    - apparent 9mo ago
      There are other STDs that you'd still be at risk of getting/giving in the case of infidelity, so getting this one vaccine doesn't actually make things all good. I imagine for some people, the thought of possibly bringing home a disease would actually be a sufficient deterrent to prevent infidelity. Not just because they wouldn't want to infect their partner, but because they know it could lead to them getting caught.
      - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
chollida1 10mo ago
Ha, we had this conversation with our doctor and they said not to worry about the vaccine if you are married and monogamous. It would likely have zero benefit to us at that point in time. Now maybe that changes if you get divorced and get a new sexual partner.

What if you're married? Does it still make sense, if you know you won't ever be sleeping with a new partner?

by peab 10mo ago

What if you're married? Does it still make sense, if you know you won't ever be sleeping with a new partner?

timr 10mo ago

A question for your doctor and your partner (and of course, you can read the data in the link I posted above and use that to influence your conversation and decision!) I'm not being avoidant here -- medical decisions are always subjective and multi-factor, and I can't begin to tell you what you should do. (But I also sincerely believe that propagandists try to reduce nuanced data to talking points, which is equally wrong.) Please note the caveat about gender that I just added. The data for biological men and women are very different. Also, I haven't discussed risks at all, which is the other side of the ledger -- these vaccines are pretty darned safe, but everything comes with risk, and only you can decide what level of risk is appropriate for your life.

rawgabbit 10mo ago
I usually am pro vaccine. But the HPV vaccine discussion seems politicized to me. As someone who is monogamous and over fifty, I had trouble following the risk vs reward discussion. The CDC says it is only recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative.
- electriclove 10mo ago
  Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.
  - daveungerer 10mo ago
    > Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
      - jamiek88 9mo ago
        You don’t own your children.
        electriclove 9mo ago
        You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
        jamiek88 9mo ago
        The way you talk about your children like they are livestock is gross.
  - NikolaNovak 10mo ago
    I don't want to assume, so I'll ask if you're willing to share - are you making the implicit assumption that your kids are and/or will be monogamous, and is that assumption a key factor in your decision on their vaccinations?
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      The CDC recommendation to get it at 11 or 12 does not make sense to me. I know they aren’t having sex - and I know that some kids do. We will discuss, together, the pros/cons as they get older to see if it makes sense. As they get older, they’ll make these decisions themselves. Until then, I’m weighing the pros/cons and in our case, it doesn’t seem they are at risk in the near future.
      - cwillu 9mo ago
        You know “sexual contact” is not the same thing as sexual intercourse, right?
        electriclove 9mo ago
        Sure. Do you assume all kids are having sexual contact and need to be vaccinated for this at a young age?
      - zerocrates 9mo ago
        The early recommendation age just falls out of the data that shows the vaccine is substantially more effective if you haven't been infected yet, together with the fact that it's a multi-dose vaccine where the second dose comes months later, and realistically for many that's going to mean a year or more before completing the series. I think there's truth to the idea that the specific 11-12 range is somewhat arbitrary: as much as anything it's that because there was a preexisting "slot" in the vaccine schedule at 11-12. The American Academy of Pediatrics differs from the CDC's panel on this... but on the earlier side: they would start the recommendation at age 9. I think to a significant degree the thinking there is that if you go earlier the messaging and reaction is more "your child will probably eventually have sex and this is an effective time to give the vaccine" and less "your child will be having sex like, tomorrow."
  - LorenPechtel 9mo ago
    And herein lies the problem--you are trying to decree their sexuality. Not your choice.
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      Are you a parent? We might just be raised differently. And I can accept that you might raise your kids differently.
      - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        I am a parent who vaccinated my daughter at 9 for HPV, and my son will be vaccinated as soon as he’s old enough, without delay or hesitation. It is my opinion you are doing a disservice to your children with a suboptimal mental model, potentially driven by emotion instead of data. Your children will have sexual contact with another human eventually as they grow into adults, and there is very low risk with an HPV vaccine. There is, in my opinion, no reason not to vaccinate as soon as possible (considering the material reduction in future cancer risk, and that there is no cure once infected, only prevention via vaccination). You might have feelings, as many have strong feelings, but they won’t matter once your kids are 18 and you no longer control them. Google the stats on parental estrangement. Try to do better, you are a guardian of your children, not an owner, and your values will potentially not be their values. I don’t care with who or when my children have sexual experiences with once they are old enough to consent, what matters is they are respected, as well as protected from harm and poor health outcomes from these experiences they will certainly have eventually during their lifetimes. If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. So, protect them from what you can, which in this case is HPV.
        apparent 9mo ago
        > Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage. If you give your kid a vaccine that is primarily meant for people who do not do this, you are letting your kid know that you don't really have faith in them. That sends a strong message that some people do not want to send. As GP said, you're free to raise your kids different, and if you don't place value on reserving sex for marriage, it would make sense that you would do differently.
- tialaramex 10mo ago
  All vaccination is now heavily politicized in the US. HPV vaccination was an obvious focal point initially because of why we'd do it when we do. The initial data says you should vaccinate somewhere around 12-14 year old girls because most of them will be HPV naive but if you wait longer they won't be any more. But too many US parents cannot imagine their little girl ever having sex and if they never have sex they almost certainly won't contract HPV so, why are we vaccinating them? Are you trying to make my daughter a slut? If you've been a teenage American this should strike you as very silly, and doubly so if you understand biology. Teenage girls are not, in fact, celibate by default, so some of them will get horny. And if you understand biology the viral infections aren't caused by the same mechanism as pregnancy "sexual activity" is a shorthand, you can easily get infected while steering clear of anything that would get somebody knocked up. A peck on grandma's cheek is unlikely to work, but if you're sucking face for most of a Stranger Things episode that's definitely enough that you might contract HPV.
- wolvoleo 10mo ago
  Of course if you're monogamous sure. But I'm also 50 and very polyamorous so for me it was a no brainer getting it.
- robocat 9mo ago
  > recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative. You need to be careful making assumptions. Previously that recommendation was due to limited vaccine production and trying to prioritize young women. There were CDC recommendations during covid that were not about what was best for you individually. As always with health, the right answer is to seek professional advice. But also to take personal responsibility for your own choices (that depend on your specific circumstances).

Moto7451 10mo ago

You get to make your own health choices here, but as someone who got the vaccine in my 30s, I am glad as I didn’t know about my future divorce when I got vaccinated.

electriclove 10mo ago
Couldn’t you have gotten the vaccine after your divorce if you wanted?
- Ensorceled 10mo ago
  You are presuming that people are monogamous up until their divorce when infidelity is one of the top reasons for divorce.
  - electriclove 9mo ago
    Is it that uncommon for people to be monogamous?
- scarecrowbob 10mo ago
  Consider that it's possible that the person's partner may have exposed them to their then-unknown extra partners, creating one of the conditions for the divorce.
  - apparent 9mo ago
    There are other STDs that you'd still be at risk of getting/giving in the case of infidelity, so getting this one vaccine doesn't actually make things all good. I imagine for some people, the thought of possibly bringing home a disease would actually be a sufficient deterrent to prevent infidelity. Not just because they wouldn't want to infect their partner, but because they know it could lead to them getting caught.
    - scarecrowbob 9mo ago

chollida1 10mo ago

Ha, we had this conversation with our doctor and they said not to worry about the vaccine if you are married and monogamous. It would likely have zero benefit to us at that point in time. Now maybe that changes if you get divorced and get a new sexual partner.