5 ms·

Does the vaccine guarantee immunity, by contrast?

by hammock 10mo ago

timr 10mo ago
Parent is overstating the case. Neither infection nor vaccination provides sterilizing immunity [1], but the general reasons to prefer vaccination are (in order of descending quality of evidence & reasoning): 1) you probably haven't had all N strains yet. 2a) you likely haven't been infected with the ones that cause cancer, because they're relatively rare. 2b) ...that is especially true if you're young and not sexually active. 2) being infected with one strain does not provide sterilizing cross-immunity against the other strains. 3) even if you've been infected with a strain, some of the vaccines have been shown to prevent reinfection and reactivation better than natural infection alone. 4) in general, the vaccination-mediated immunity might last longer or be "stronger" than the natural version, since the vaccines are pretty immunogenic, and the viruses are not. But for point 4, it's well-known that vaccine efficacy is lower for people who have already seroconverted (cf [1]), so there's clearly some amount of practical immunity provided by infection. [1] The vaccines are roughly 90% effective for the major cancer-causing strains, but it's not a simple answer, and varies a lot by how you frame the question. See table 2 here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8706722/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8706722/ Also be sure to see table 4 if you're a man. The data for biological men and women are surprisingly different!
- peab 10mo ago
  What if you're married? Does it still make sense, if you know you won't ever be sleeping with a new partner?
  - timr 10mo ago
    A question for your doctor and your partner (and of course, you can read the data in the link I posted above and use that to influence your conversation and decision!) I'm not being avoidant here -- medical decisions are always subjective and multi-factor, and I can't begin to tell you what you should do. (But I also sincerely believe that propagandists try to reduce nuanced data to talking points, which is equally wrong.) Please note the caveat about gender that I just added. The data for biological men and women are very different. Also, I haven't discussed risks at all, which is the other side of the ledger -- these vaccines are pretty darned safe, but everything comes with risk, and only you can decide what level of risk is appropriate for your life.
    - rawgabbit 10mo ago
      I usually am pro vaccine. But the HPV vaccine discussion seems politicized to me. As someone who is monogamous and over fifty, I had trouble following the risk vs reward discussion. The CDC says it is only recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative.
      - electriclove 10mo ago
        Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.
        daveungerer 10mo ago
        > Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?
        electriclove 10mo ago
        My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
        jamiek88 10mo ago
        You don’t own your children.
        electriclove 9mo ago
        You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
  - Moto7451 10mo ago
    You get to make your own health choices here, but as someone who got the vaccine in my 30s, I am glad as I didn’t know about my future divorce when I got vaccinated.
    - electriclove 10mo ago
      Couldn’t you have gotten the vaccine after your divorce if you wanted?
      - Ensorceled 10mo ago
        You are presuming that people are monogamous up until their divorce when infidelity is one of the top reasons for divorce.
        electriclove 10mo ago
        Is it that uncommon for people to be monogamous?
      - scarecrowbob 10mo ago
        Consider that it's possible that the person's partner may have exposed them to their then-unknown extra partners, creating one of the conditions for the divorce.
        apparent 10mo ago
        There are other STDs that you'd still be at risk of getting/giving in the case of infidelity, so getting this one vaccine doesn't actually make things all good. I imagine for some people, the thought of possibly bringing home a disease would actually be a sufficient deterrent to prevent infidelity. Not just because they wouldn't want to infect their partner, but because they know it could lead to them getting caught.
        scarecrowbob 10mo ago
  - chollida1 10mo ago
    Ha, we had this conversation with our doctor and they said not to worry about the vaccine if you are married and monogamous. It would likely have zero benefit to us at that point in time. Now maybe that changes if you get divorced and get a new sexual partner.
tialaramex 10mo ago
It's never a guarantee in practice, the CDC says "More than 98% of recipients develop an antibody response to HPV types included in the respective vaccines 1 month after completing a full vaccination series"

Does the vaccine guarantee immunity, by contrast?

by hammock 10mo ago

Does the vaccine guarantee immunity, by contrast?

timr 10mo ago

Parent is overstating the case. Neither infection nor vaccination provides sterilizing immunity [1], but the general reasons to prefer vaccination are (in order of descending quality of evidence & reasoning): 1) you probably haven't had all N strains yet. 2a) you likely haven't been infected with the ones that cause cancer, because they're relatively rare. 2b) ...that is especially true if you're young and not sexually active. 2) being infected with one strain does not provide sterilizing cross-immunity against the other strains. 3) even if you've been infected with a strain, some of the vaccines have been shown to prevent reinfection and reactivation better than natural infection alone. 4) in general, the vaccination-mediated immunity might last longer or be "stronger" than the natural version, since the vaccines are pretty immunogenic, and the viruses are not. But for point 4, it's well-known that vaccine efficacy is lower for people who have already seroconverted (cf [1]), so there's clearly some amount of practical immunity provided by infection. [1] The vaccines are roughly 90% effective for the major cancer-causing strains, but it's not a simple answer, and varies a lot by how you frame the question. See table 2 here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8706722/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8706722/ Also be sure to see table 4 if you're a man. The data for biological men and women are surprisingly different!

peab 10mo ago
What if you're married? Does it still make sense, if you know you won't ever be sleeping with a new partner?
- timr 10mo ago
  A question for your doctor and your partner (and of course, you can read the data in the link I posted above and use that to influence your conversation and decision!) I'm not being avoidant here -- medical decisions are always subjective and multi-factor, and I can't begin to tell you what you should do. (But I also sincerely believe that propagandists try to reduce nuanced data to talking points, which is equally wrong.) Please note the caveat about gender that I just added. The data for biological men and women are very different. Also, I haven't discussed risks at all, which is the other side of the ledger -- these vaccines are pretty darned safe, but everything comes with risk, and only you can decide what level of risk is appropriate for your life.
  - rawgabbit 10mo ago
    I usually am pro vaccine. But the HPV vaccine discussion seems politicized to me. As someone who is monogamous and over fifty, I had trouble following the risk vs reward discussion. The CDC says it is only recommended for young adults so I interpret that for my case the answer is negative.
    - electriclove 10mo ago
      Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.
      - daveungerer 10mo ago
        > Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?
        electriclove 10mo ago
        My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
        jamiek88 10mo ago
        You don’t own your children.
        electriclove 9mo ago
        You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
- Moto7451 10mo ago
  You get to make your own health choices here, but as someone who got the vaccine in my 30s, I am glad as I didn’t know about my future divorce when I got vaccinated.
  - electriclove 10mo ago
    Couldn’t you have gotten the vaccine after your divorce if you wanted?
    - Ensorceled 10mo ago
      You are presuming that people are monogamous up until their divorce when infidelity is one of the top reasons for divorce.
      - electriclove 10mo ago
        Is it that uncommon for people to be monogamous?
    - scarecrowbob 10mo ago
      Consider that it's possible that the person's partner may have exposed them to their then-unknown extra partners, creating one of the conditions for the divorce.
      - apparent 10mo ago
        There are other STDs that you'd still be at risk of getting/giving in the case of infidelity, so getting this one vaccine doesn't actually make things all good. I imagine for some people, the thought of possibly bringing home a disease would actually be a sufficient deterrent to prevent infidelity. Not just because they wouldn't want to infect their partner, but because they know it could lead to them getting caught.
        scarecrowbob 10mo ago
- chollida1 10mo ago
  Ha, we had this conversation with our doctor and they said not to worry about the vaccine if you are married and monogamous. It would likely have zero benefit to us at that point in time. Now maybe that changes if you get divorced and get a new sexual partner.

tialaramex 10mo ago

It's never a guarantee in practice, the CDC says "More than 98% of recipients develop an antibody response to HPV types included in the respective vaccines 1 month after completing a full vaccination series"