7 ms·

I don't mind how Liquid Glass looks at all. It's just insane how buggy the system has become. Even Messages will bug out, like deleting my first word if I type

• eoskx 10mo ago
  I've had similar observations with different behaviors in Safari and Finder. One would think the quality of Apple's software would be increasing with the usage of Swift over Objective-C, but the opposite seems to be true.
  • walthamstow 10mo ago
    Spotlight is also slow and buggy now, on an M3 Pro no less. I loathe the feeling of being faster than my computer and having to wait for it to catch up, something that I haven't felt since the M1 came out.
    • deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    • runjake 10mo ago
      This was my last straw that caused me to disable Spotlight: Typing something into Spotlight, having it pull up the right result and highlight it, and me hitting the Enter key, and the search results suddenly updating after and highlighting some new result and then opening that instead. It’s not just Liquid Glass. It’s bugs like these where I realized Apple software was truly rotten to the core. Whomever is running the show (Craig) can’t do their job. I’m now noticing the same bug in the latest versions of Windows 11 when I hit the start button and run a search. This was a solved computer science problem.
      • ptr 10mo ago
        Apple software used to exhibit reasonable UX for “edge cases” just like the one you described. This was one of my main reasons for going Mac — they cared about the details. Sad to see that seems to be going away.
        • layer8 10mo ago
          It seems to be that these things never last, as company culture inevitably changes.
      • seemaze 10mo ago
        The updating input locations under your cursor in particular is so f*ing frustrating. To be fair, it's not just macOS, but many webpages which load dynamic content as well.
      • jkestner 10mo ago
        That laggy behavior plus indexing not appearing to find some obvious files made me switch to Raycast.
        • walthamstow 10mo ago
          Raycast looks really cool, thanks
        • runjake 10mo ago
          Same. It’s closed source and has a subscription fee, but I’m all in on Raycast.
          • jkestner 9mo ago
            You only have to pay for the Pro version. As a replacement for Spotlight the free version does great for me.
  • phantasmish 10mo ago
    There are like a half-dozen blatant bugs I encounter between daily and weekly in Safari. Text input and textarea editing is buggy in a couple ways, Apple Pay has a positioning bug where sometimes its bottom button is about 1/3 off the screen, certain elements on a couple pages smear when I scroll (but only sometimes). Not even counting ways the keyboard itself is worse now. I haven’t seen browsing this buggy outside weird niche Linux browsers in… 15+ years?
    • eoskx 10mo ago
      My issues with Safari have mostly been iCloud-related. The latest one being the iCloud tabs SQLlite database getting corrupted constantly and keeping stale tabs around that I have long closed. 26.2 seems to have fixed it, but it was around at least since Sonoma. I've had similar issues with Reading List, where again, the database gets corrupted and changes that I've made to Reading List get reverted. It is just little stuff like this that adds up and creates poor UX.
      • eoskx 10mo ago
        What's also telling is how long the bugs stayed around, too. They were reported on Reddit and Apple's forums for awhile with various workarounds, like deleting the phantom entries from the SQLlite database manually and doing some other gymnastics like removing the other devices from iCloud in hopes that everything would sync up nicely. No one at Apple had the time or took the time to chase down the bugs. In a world of Claude Code or Codex you would think they would have at least tried a cursory "fix this". On a related note, maybe one of these days iCloud will have a force sync option that tells the other devices to trash their copies vs having to remove all devices and re-add to get everything coherently synced.
        • igregoryca 10mo ago
          The lack of a "refresh" option has been a problem with iCloud for years. Back in the iOS 8/9 days, I'd write in Pages on an iPad and then try to open the document on a Mac or the Pages web app. Pages itself was (and is) pretty nice, but iCloud sync was constantly broken. Things didn't appear when I needed them to. Some designers say that refresh buttons shouldn't exist because the interface should always reflect the current state of reality. They're right, but until the day we get 100% bug-free bidirectional sync with perfect conflict resolution that instantly polls the network whenever it reconnects, refresh buttons are a necessary evil.
  • manoDev 10mo ago
    Swift was the worst thing that happened to Mac OS, because we’re now suffering second system syndrome.
    • voidhorse 10mo ago
      I completely agree. I saw the writing on the wall the moment they started boosting swiftUI as a UI library of the future where it was only half done and not even compatible with existing frameworks.
    • mort96 10mo ago
      I think it's worse than that: we're now suffering being a "supported but deprioritised platform" for a cross platform GUI. AppKit was developed for the Mac from the ground up. All effort that went into it was to make the Mac as good as possible. Experience from that went into making UIKit, which was made to be as good as possible for iPhone. Focus on iPhone made the Mac suffer somewhat from a lack of resources, but AppKit was still a rock solid foundation. Swift UI is primarily made for iPhone. It's secondarily made for iPad. I'm willing to bet that almost all the effort that goes into it is focused on making iPhone and iPad apps better. And it is succeeding there, to some degree (though not without its own issues; especially now with iOS 26). Mac support, however, is clearly an afterthought. Yet it's now the foundation of everything in macOS. It's not too dissimilar from what it would look like if Apple had decided to rewrite large swathes of the system in GTK when the GTK developers only really care about how well GTK works in a GNOME desktop.
      • andrekandre 10mo ago
        > Swift UI is primarily made for iPhone. It's secondarily made for iPad. I'm willing to bet that almost all the effort that goes into it is focused on making iPhone and iPad apps better. i think there is also another issue at play; i think with swiftui being "data based" for lack of a better term, you can easily end up with ui that matches underlying data models but doesn't match the users model/expectation... you can see this really clearly with the settings app vs the old preferences; its pretty obvious (imo) they are looping over underlying data and just spitting out endless lists and dialogs etc instead of mapping it to a presentation in a user-first way...
  • voidhorse 10mo ago
    Maybe the sharper edges of objective-C lead to a programming practice that was more careful, which has been abandoned under the impression of Swift's increase default safety.
    • vor_ 10mo ago
      I think it has to do with frameworks like SwiftUI.
• mort96 10mo ago
  I think parts of Liquid Glass on macOS looks pretty bad. But I don't care that much about how things look, so it doesn't offend me. What does offend me are all the bugs, as you say. It's still utterly broken all these months after the public release. Spotlight is a mess; I've seen it take DAYS before it has made an app in '/Applications' findable through search (even as the app shows up in Spotlight's long scrollable list of apps), and the animation where it comes in as a result of the four finger gesture has so many bugs I won't go through them all here. The most annoying is that it can end up in a state where Spotlight is not on screen, but you need to do the "make Spotlight go away" gesture before the "make Spotlight appear" gesture works again. It also often loads icons slowly; sometimes loading them in one by one over time, sometimes all at once after thinking for a second. It's arguably better from a UX design perspective than Launchpad was, but Launchpad was so much more polished and better performing. There's also just constant minor graphical glitches. Things which pop in, things which load in with the wrong background color, that sort of stuff. The Settings app sometimes loads in stuff gradually and parts of the app jump around for a second before it settles, like a bad web app. It feels janky. Mac OS X used to feel like a solid operating system. It has been going downhill for a while, but macOS 26 is the biggest leap in a long time.
  • teaearlgraycold 10mo ago
    This year I've had to perform many hard resets on my MacBook, iPhone and even Apple Watch because they've locked up. And they're all relatively new devices. Apple needs to get its shit together. I already expect to move away from their mobile ecosystem when it comes time to upgrade.
    • DonHopkins 10mo ago
      It's Apple itself that needs a hard reset. Maybe if we all at the same time collectively hold our power buttons down for sixty seconds, Apple Park will reboot.
    • rootusrootus 10mo ago
      I recently upgraded (downgraded?) from an iPhone 15PM to a smaller iPhone 17P, and I have found myself wondering if I got a glitchy piece of hardware or if it's just iOS 26 bugs. I hardly had any problems with the previous phone, but on the 17 it's pretty routine that I have to close apps (including native Apple ones) which have become non-responsive. Frustrating, for sure.
• pjmlp 10mo ago
  It is akin to some military operations doomed to fail, and everyone ends up dying because of the chain of command no one is willing to speak against. That is how the current chaos feels like.
  • DonHopkins 10mo ago
    Apple employees should have kidnapped Alan Dye from his office and deposited him on Facebook's doorstep wrapped up in a straightjacket with ribbons and a bow years ago before he finally left voluntarily.
    • philistine 10mo ago
      Like the Hong-Kong guy in The Dark Knight!
    • kibwen 10mo ago
      Using Dye as a scapegoat feels like cope. The rest of the executives were fully content with this effort, and in the end he wasn't even forced out. There's no evidence that Apple will correct its course without him.
      • danaris 10mo ago
        Yes, there is: Lemay, who replaced him, is a career UI guy. Regardless of whether the C-suite recognized the problem or made a conscious decision to replace Dye with Lemay, it is likely that this outcome will, indeed, result in improved UI.
      • Y-bar 10mo ago
        Sort of in agreement here. In-between not paying attention to general software quality and not voicing concern, Craig Federigi should not get a free pass. In-between kissing the boots of Kings, and dining with Murderers, and posting AI slop on Twitter, Tim Cook ought to have been more involved. There is enough blame to pass around at Apple today among the leadership, but the specific shitty UI buck stops with Dye. Dye is putting his signature on it and is the face of the Liquid Glass demo, if he wants the primary fame, he can have the primary blame.
• embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > The thing that amazes me most is that everyone on the teams responsible is probably using their Apple devices and running into these same bugs! This is what surprises me the most to be honest. CarPlay seemingly still suffers from a (sometimes deadly) issue of covering the entire map on your dashboard with the avatar/number of the person calling, so if you're actively using it for navigation (since, you know, there is a map there and all) someone calling you is a highly stressful moment and more than not you need to hang up because otherwise the call is in the way. I've had my iPhone 12 Mini for so many years now, and this is still an issue, the only conclusion I can take from this is that people at Apple actually all have Android phones.
  • varispeed 10mo ago
    Often it is that people who use the devices learn how to work around bugs and then they forget they exist. There is also subconscious resistance to create an action that will uncover a bug and then remind of personal failure. Then once whole teams get used to this, it's not possible to get it fixed as it gets deprioritised always.
  • lapcat 10mo ago
    The Apple release schedule is unremitting. We know that bugs are reported to Apple by developers, and we know that reported bugs get ignored for years, or forever. I suspect that every Apple engineer has a mountain of bugs in their queue. If Apple leadership doesn't care about software quality, then Apple engineers can't care about software quality. They use the same buggy crap that we do, because they have no choice.
• sheepscreek 10mo ago
  Indeed - the system as a whole is starting to feel bloated. Today’s macOS design is akin to the cosmetic mufflers/exhaust pipes in cars, which serve only to justify the “Sport” badge. I long for the days past.
  • socalgal2 10mo ago
    It's felt bloated for a while. Everytime I setup a new Mac I have to remove all of the icons from the doc. A new Dell isn't that bloated.
    • jakeydus 10mo ago
      > a new Dell isn’t that bloated. At least a new Mac doesn’t try to serve you ads in the app launcher.
      • muro 10mo ago
        what about iCloud and News?
        • jakeydus 10mo ago
          I was specifically referring to ads for third party applications in the start menu, so you’re technically correct and I should have been more specific. I’d argue that those are upsells for the OS to enhance existing apps and systems. Not my favorite, but preferable to windows telling me to install candy crush in the start menu.
      • hagbard_c 10mo ago
        A new ${computer_brand} with Linux doesn't show you any ads, doesn't add more bloat than you let it, doesn't insist on you creating any iCloudy or Microsofty accounts, doesn't try to police what software you run on the thing, doesn't try to upsell you to some ${precious_metal} plan, doesn't insist your 5 year new computer is obsolete, doesn't spy on you, etcetera. What are you waiting for?
• general1465 10mo ago
  I agree with bugs, you can't even scroll through settings with touchpad without permanently enabling scroll bars.
• apexalpha 10mo ago
  >I don't mind how Liquid Glass looks at all. I do, and the fact that it isn't even optional is crazy. Windows Vista vibes where they first looked at what the could technically pull off on todays' hardware. And mind you: Liquid Glass is very impressive!. It's just not necessary.
  • downrightmike 10mo ago
    Who decided things that slide in place need to jiggle like jello?!
    • seemaze 10mo ago
      I've been describing it as if the ui has been covered in corn syrup; like it has been drizzled in a slow and sticky and slightly blurry layer of transparent obfuscation.
  • cmurf 10mo ago
    Although outright opt-out isn't possible, it seems like heading to Accessibility -> Motion -> Reduce Motion (on) and Prefer Cross-Fade Transitions (On) reduces the effect. I'm not sure if this reduces the buggy artifacts though.
  • therealpygon 10mo ago
    Necessary has never been the deciding factor for Apple’s decisions, especially when it comes to design. Nor has “optional” ever really been part of that discussion. They know, like most people, supporting multiple interface simply creates more BS to maintain for the few resistant people who don’t accept change. Like it or hate, you bought an Apple. I don’t particularly like it either — reality is what it is and if I don’t like it that much, there are other phones I can buy when I upgrade.
  • steve-atx-7600 10mo ago
    I can't remember windows vista actually making content illegible or reduced the content area in a focused window like Apple has done.
• shimman 10mo ago
  I have these insane bugs where my apple tv will connect to my mbp even tho my mbp has blutooth disabled. I'll be listening to a podcast on my mbp with airpods while my wife is watching some show on the apple tv. It will still randomly connect to my airpods when my wife never tries to connect them. Apple is quickly becoming a trash company and we're seeing the effects of an industry writ large when you only hire leetcode monkeys.
  • qubitcoder 10mo ago
    You can disable the automatic handoff in the Apple TV settings. That drove me crazy as well.
• eviks 10mo ago
  > Unacceptable for the premium you pay for Apple software. Unacceptable for any software one is paying for. You don't pay anything for the software, so the quality matches
  • jasonvorhe 10mo ago
    This is not an argument that works for the company proudly pairing hardware and software as their core business.
  • zdragnar 10mo ago
    Funny, last time I used macos there were so many annoyances and every suggestion was to use some paid third party app. I finally caved and used hammerspoon to write everything I needed myself. You pay for it in lots of ways, including an obscene premium on minor hardware upgrades, not to mention you have to buy their hardware to even use the software itself.
• frizlab 10mo ago
  I don’t mind Liquid Glass either to be honest. I kind of like it even. I also completely agree regarding software quality, which is abysmal (I am sufficiently aware of the internals of a lot of things on macOS to know most of the time why it’s like this, but it’s still unacceptable).
  • bbkane 10mo ago
    I'll bite. Why is it like this (in your opinion of course)?
    • frizlab 10mo ago
      Mostly the failing events (e.g. the Messages app failing to keep the first word of a message when typing rapidly after sending a message) are, I think, due to Apple using Catalyst for these apps. Catalyst was an ambitious project, which works… mostly. But in the details, it has a lot of rough cuts. I fully expect Apple to end up rewriting Messages and co completely in SwiftUI eventually, but that will take many years, if they ever do it. For the rest, most of the time my wild guess would be that Apple is constantly migrating their frameworks, or creating new ones, and the engineers developing apps are using ever moving frameworks. The framework stabilizes at the end of the release cycle (or sometimes even later…), which leaves no time for the front devs to truly finish quality control on their part. Basically, to summarize, the release cycle is too small. Apple should do releases every two years instead of every year. Or drop the cycle altogether and just release when ready.
• dormento 10mo ago
  > The thing that amazes me most is that everyone on the teams responsible is probably using their Apple devices and running into these same bugs! Would be funny if devs @Apple were using Surface machines when developing the newest MacOS, just like MS devs were using Apple hardware when developing Windows.