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> Ugh not this misdirection again. Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again! > It's also the same level of indirection as the US presidency, whic

by fidotron 10mo ago

> Ugh not this misdirection again. Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again! > It's also the same level of indirection as the US presidency, which is appointed by the Electoral College. But the US President doesn't have a monopoly on setting the agenda of Congress, the Commission does with respect to the EU Parliament. Anyone with any political awareness knows that if you set the agenda you control the outcome.

saubeidl 10mo ago
> Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again! It's not a fact. It's just pedantry that is conveniently not applied anywhere else. Nobody would say the US president isn't elected or ministers aren't elected, but when it comes to the EU a double standard is applied by dishonest ideologues. The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts, but fwiw Congress has been absolutely irrelevant since the sitting president decided to rule by decree.
- fidotron 10mo ago
  > It's not a fact. It's just pedantry Absolute gold, thanks for that. > The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts. At least you lot have a wicked sense of irony.
  - orwin 10mo ago
    I will remark that no one disputed OP when he remarked that the US executive power is also appointed, not elected, and that weirdly no one make the same point about how undemocratic it is. It does rs feel like OP is right about ideologues only being pedantic when it serves their points.
    - fidotron 10mo ago
      Except for this comment right here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46376178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46376178
  - nutjob2 10mo ago
    Your understanding of irony is at an Alanis Morissette level.
nutjob2 10mo ago
You're wrong on facts and wrong on the comparison with the US system. The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda". Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda. "The European Council is a collegiate body and a symbolic collective head of state, that defines the overall political direction and general priorities of the European Union." They are functionally equivalent.
- fidotron 10mo ago
  > The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda". Fantastic example of unintentional scare quotes. > Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda. Who has to nominate all the possible members of the EU Commission? Is it the EU Council? Face it, the entire EU structure is designed to prevent little people from ever being able to get a law passed which would possibly benefit them except as populist measures inside the EU which stick it to the evil Americans again to promote internal support for the EU.
  - nutjob2 10mo ago
    The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament. > Face it... Beaten by the facts, you just move on to more vague and hateful nonsense. The EU is not the US. The EU is not a vassal state of the US, it will make its own determinations and punish whoever breaks laws within the EU. US companies don't have to like it, they can leave. The US wouldn't EU companies breaking US laws so this is all just rank hypocrisy and bigotry.
    - fidotron 10mo ago
      > The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament. Long windedly confirming exactly what I said while attempting to obfuscate the reality. You aren't appointing anyone to the European Commission that didn't get nominated via the European Council, which is the heads of states, and the resulting people then write the laws voted on by the European Parliament. Unsurprisingly this leads to enormous bureaucratic inertia for the benefit of those that have already captured the system. It is as democratic as the internal functions of the CCP. > US companies don't have to like it, they can leave. Why doesn't the EU make them leave? Because you want to act all superior to, say, the CCP or Russia. > Beaten by the facts Not even close > more vague and hateful nonsense. Come off it - that's your whole m.o.

saubeidl 10mo ago

> Oh no! Someone pointed out an inconvenient fact again! It's not a fact. It's just pedantry that is conveniently not applied anywhere else. Nobody would say the US president isn't elected or ministers aren't elected, but when it comes to the EU a double standard is applied by dishonest ideologues. The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts, but fwiw Congress has been absolutely irrelevant since the sitting president decided to rule by decree.

fidotron 10mo ago
> It's not a fact. It's just pedantry Absolute gold, thanks for that. > The rest of your post is classic moving of goal posts. At least you lot have a wicked sense of irony.
- orwin 10mo ago
  I will remark that no one disputed OP when he remarked that the US executive power is also appointed, not elected, and that weirdly no one make the same point about how undemocratic it is. It does rs feel like OP is right about ideologues only being pedantic when it serves their points.
  - fidotron 10mo ago
    Except for this comment right here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46376178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46376178
- nutjob2 10mo ago
  Your understanding of irony is at an Alanis Morissette level.

nutjob2 10mo ago

You're wrong on facts and wrong on the comparison with the US system. The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda". Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda. "The European Council is a collegiate body and a symbolic collective head of state, that defines the overall political direction and general priorities of the European Union." They are functionally equivalent.

fidotron 10mo ago
> The US president can't propose laws, only Congress can, yet he can "set the agenda". Fantastic example of unintentional scare quotes. > Only the EU Commission can propose laws, but the EU Council (composed of the heads of state or of government of the EU member states) sets the agenda. Who has to nominate all the possible members of the EU Commission? Is it the EU Council? Face it, the entire EU structure is designed to prevent little people from ever being able to get a law passed which would possibly benefit them except as populist measures inside the EU which stick it to the evil Americans again to promote internal support for the EU.
- nutjob2 10mo ago
  The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament. > Face it... Beaten by the facts, you just move on to more vague and hateful nonsense. The EU is not the US. The EU is not a vassal state of the US, it will make its own determinations and punish whoever breaks laws within the EU. US companies don't have to like it, they can leave. The US wouldn't EU companies breaking US laws so this is all just rank hypocrisy and bigotry.
  - fidotron 10mo ago
    > The governments of each EU member state nominate their own candidate for a Commissioner, while the European Council (the heads of state or government) proposes the President of the Commission, who then works with member states to select the full team, all subject to approval by the European Parliament. Long windedly confirming exactly what I said while attempting to obfuscate the reality. You aren't appointing anyone to the European Commission that didn't get nominated via the European Council, which is the heads of states, and the resulting people then write the laws voted on by the European Parliament. Unsurprisingly this leads to enormous bureaucratic inertia for the benefit of those that have already captured the system. It is as democratic as the internal functions of the CCP. > US companies don't have to like it, they can leave. Why doesn't the EU make them leave? Because you want to act all superior to, say, the CCP or Russia. > Beaten by the facts Not even close > more vague and hateful nonsense. Come off it - that's your whole m.o.