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Disbanding the EU is an official goal of the new US security strategy.
by alphager 10mo ago
Disbanding the EU is an official goal of the new US security strategy.
- mlrtime 10mo agoDivide and conquer is working well it seems. There is no conspiracy, sorry.
- carlosjobim 10mo agoThe EU is not Europe. I never see any pro-EU sentiment anywhere besides on HN and Reddit. Talk to Europeans and they hate the EU and see it as an oppressive foreign power. Except for the Germans.
- andsoitis 10mo ago> Talk to Europeans and they hate the EU and see it as an oppressive foreign power. Your framing is off, I'm afraid. Across Europe, most people see the EU as more good than bad, especially compared to the alternative of countries acting alone. At the same time, support is often cautious rather than enthusiastic.
- nephihaha 10mo agoVoter turn out is extremely low in certain central and eastern Europe for EU elections. I think it was down to under 20% in some places a few years ago. I had hoped that the UK would vote to remain and Europe would move away from a centralist, authoritarian model, but it's got worse especially since 2020. The EU is its own worst enemy.
- andsoitis 10mo ago> move away from a centralist, authoritarian model, EU is authoritarian? Why do you think that?
- nephihaha 10mo agoIt is restricting freedom of expression, and increasing public surveillance.
- jeltz 10mo agoThe EU is what held back the surveillance in the UK. Post brexit they went all in on surveillance.
- nephihaha 10mo agoBoth the UK and the EU are rolling in censorship, surveillance and digital ID.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoYou've literally just contradicted your own post in this thread.
- nephihaha 10mo agoNo, I haven't. Both the UK and EU are doing many of the same things. You can argue that the EU is bureaucratic without supporting bureaucracy within the UK. These are not contradictory positions.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoYou claimed that the UK leaving was bad as they were more liberal, and then noted that they were also doing lots of anti privacy stuff. Seems a little contradictory to me.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- watwut 10mo agoIt insists on things like "corruption is bad", "human rights are for everyone including gays" so naturally certain conservative groups find that authoritarian.
- carlosjobim 10mo agoI've never seen any pro-EU attitude in the European countries I've lived in. Except for among the political and media class. But those aren't representatives of the general population. But I haven't lived in central Europe, like Germany, Belgium, etc. Where the attitudes seem to be quite pro-EU. The original statement still stands. Europe is not the EU. The EU is not Europe.
- saubeidl 10mo agoThat is more indicative of the company you keep than the actual reality on the ground. https://news.gallup.com/poll/657860/member-states-show-strong-support-brussels.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/657860/member-states-show-stron...
- phatfish 10mo agoWhich Europeans have you "talked" to? Discord and twitter don't count. People moan about the EU like they moan about their own national government. Opinion polls on actually leaving the EU show a minority in favour. Most Europeans saw Brexit play out and realise sticking the finger up at your neighbours is not a winning strategy.
- carlosjobim 10mo agoI guess real life doesn't count either? Good that we can rely on HN and Reddit, where the pro-EU sentiment is strong. I just haven't seen that in real life, which is why I suggest maybe it might be particular to Germans and probably Belgians and Dutch.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoWhere have you lived in the EU? I think that the EU is mostly mediocre rather like our national governments.
- darubedarob 10mo agoBrexit was ironically mostly an anti immigration vote. It has thoroughly demolished the involved parties that the one thing promised has not come to pass.
- Lapel2742 10mo ago> Talk to Europeans and they hate the EU and see it as an oppressive foreign power. Maybe you should get out of your right-wing bubble. - EU approval among its citizens hits record high as security fears grow, poll shows (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-approval-among-its-citizens-hits-record-high-security-fears-grow-poll-shows-2025-03-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-approval-among-its-c...) - Nearly three quarters of EU citizens (74%) say that, taking everything into account, their country has benefited from being a member of the EU. (https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3378 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3378)
- nephihaha 10mo agoThe EU is busy clamping down on freedom of expression and forcing through Digital ID. It isn't some paradise. There are things I like about the EU, but it also has some things horribly wrong.
- Lapel2742 10mo ago> It isn't some paradise. Compared to the USA it still is.
- nephihaha 10mo agoThe EU has better healthcare and welfare overall, but fewer individual rights in other areas. Less gun crime (although this depends on region). Poverty levels vary a lot across the EU. Americans take homeschooling for granted, for better or worse, but it is banned in some European countries like Germany. Also the USA allows groups such as the Amish their liberty, which would be extremely unlikely in much of the EU where state interference would either force them out or destroy them. The US has umpteen issues but is much better for freedom of expression frankly, although it is being steered away from that.
- watwut 10mo agoRight now EU is not arresting own citizens for failure to provide ID card while america does that even when said people have id card. EU is not demanding 5 yeara of social media public from kids entering in. EU is not killing fisherman to feel manly. EU is overall more democratic and more free. The parts that sux Hungary and Slovakia dont sux because of EU, but despite it. It is ok for Germany to not have homeschooling.
- ulfw 10mo agoYou have no idea what you're talking about. Stop generalising. You don't know what Europeans think at all "except for the Germans"
- carlosjobim 10mo agoI have an idea of what I'm talking about. I say that the EU is not Europe. Nor is Europe the EU. People in these conversations need to understand the difference, because it is significant. Norway, Great Britain, Iceland and Switzerland aren't in the EU.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoAll of those bar the UK are in the EEA though.
- carlosjobim 10mo agoYes, but those are only trade and border agreements, and don't give the EU influence on internal political matters. Compare similar trade agreements between other nations, such as between the United States and their neighbours.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo ago> Yes, but those are only trade and border agreements Honestly goods and service regulations are probably the biggest infringement of sovereignty as it signs all of your companies up to arbitrary standards. That may be a good idea, but to pretend that it's somehow less important than other pooling of sovereignty seems strange to me.
- pezezin 10mo agoSpanish guy here: no, we don't hate the EU, quite the opposite. Please stop feeding on right-wing propaganda that wants to destroy us.
- carlosjobim 10mo agoUnfortunately you live in the wrong time and age. You'd like to report to your local commissar when somebody expresses opinions and ideas against the cherished government - "he's a right wing propagandist who seeks to destroy us!". But it's not the 20th century anymore, and all you can do is scream into the cyber void.
- pezezin 10mo agoDude please, my country endured 40 years of a fascist government, we know a few things about right wing propaganda...
- carlosjobim 10mo agoAccusing anybody who doesn't love the government of "spreading propaganda" is not a sign of knowledge. It's a sign of an obsolete 20th century mindset and perspective on life. Next perhaps you're going to accuse me of "Staatsfeindlichkeit", which the German leadership was screaming in their denouncements, before the people tore down their walls. "Verunglimpfung des Staates" - "Insulting the State", this awful, awful crime, is something I'm going to continue doing however I fancy. Millions of people were killed for that right, so it's not something I'm ever giving up.
- pezezin 10mo agoNot loving the government is OK. Heck, hating the government might also be OK. Insisting that we European citizens hate the EU when it is not true, and then doubling down with accusations of censorship when the whole thread points out your mistake, is downright stupid. But hey, if that makes you happy as some kind of freedom fighter, go for it.
- pembrook 10mo agoIt is not. I know the media has pushed this ragebait to get engagement from you, but you can literally read the official policy document.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoI have read the document, it certainly implies that the EU is a problem and that the US should support 'patriotic' parties in pulling away from it. It's a short read (30 pages, large font) so it's well worth looking at.
- pembrook 10mo agoA majority of Europeans also think the EU has major issues. This does not constitute being anti-Europe.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo agoPlease read the document before making this determination. > A majority of Europeans also think the EU has major issues I don't disagree with you in principle here, but do you have a source for this?