5 ms·

This made me laugh a bit as I remembered people saying “Oh we have Nadella now, things have changed”. Have they? Have they really? Windows Recall. VS Code for

This made me laugh a bit as I remembered people saying “Oh we have Nadella now, things have changed”. Have they? Have they really? Windows Recall. VS Code forcing Copilot. Windows forcing Copilot. Office forcing Copilot. Azure forcing Copilot. GitHub forcing Copilot. Outlook forcing Copilot. Edge forcing Copilot. You folks are insane.

conartist6 10mo ago
There is not Copilot, only Zuul.
mindcrash 10mo ago
"Just" some Copilot integration (in the form of chat or smart suggestions) is just the start. The next major Windows 11 update coming in 2026 will have full agentic AI with full control over your (your?) PC. And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work (so a lot more e-waste is coming). I fear for the future.
- falcor84 10mo ago
  > And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work Am I right to understand that as people don't upgrade their hardware, they're safe from that, right? Sounds like a plus to me.
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    Nope, you go to upgrade, because windows update downloaded it and restarted, and it tells you “Your processor is not supported”. Why would it be any different than the Windows 7 -> Windows 10 debacle? Disabling entire processor families after it boots into installation and wiped the previous windows.
    - beAbU 10mo ago
      I think they fixed that to some degree. I have an old win10 PC that now has a persistent "upgrade to W11" banner that informs me my PC is below spec, so I can't upgrade. Fine by me!
      - dmicah 10mo ago
        Eventually Microsoft will stop providing security updates to their old OS, compelling users to upgrade if they want to stay on Windows
        reactordev 10mo ago
        Which is fine. No one expects them to support everything forever.
        mindcrash 10mo ago
        A 2025 Linux kernel with all recent features is able to boot on a system from 2006. Likewise the Windows 11 (which is just a rebranded Windows 10, just look at the full build number which should start with 10.x) kernel could boot systems from ~2017 onwards. Maybe with some kernel features disabled which most (if not all) Windows 10 users would not miss anyway, but it could still boot without any issues. Those running a Rufus-patched Windows 11 are living proof of this. This never was a technical issue, or one which could cost them money, but a cold blooded business decision which generated thousands upon thousands of kilos of e-waste. And for what?
        reactordev 10mo ago
        >A 2025 Linux kernel with all recent features is able to boot on a system from 2006. Because no one on the kernel team likes deleting code, specifically because someone will try to install it on their old ass work laptop from a decade ago. Microsoft choosing not to support that old ass laptop is a company choice. There are costs involved with maintaining the support structure. Whereas Linux is primarily funded by enterprises who use it on servers, which may not be updated hardware wise in a longer period of time. If Linus Torvalds or Miguel De Icaza introduce copilot, I swear I’m going to go all in on BSD.
    - ragequittah 10mo ago
      Almost nobody has this functionality on their desktop processor. I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy but there's enough real problems to yell about without making some up. The agentic AI will even be entirely opt in.
      - mindcrash 10mo ago
        It's not. Like TPM and several new CPU features are a hard requirement for Windows 11, which are patched out by tools like Rufus but can lead to a broken system with every single update you install, a NPU is a hard requirement for the upcoming major update with agentic AI. They got a storm of criticism after that announcement, but Microsoft seemingly has not given a single fuck about that and has not backtracked on this decision. (Just like they technically could have allowed Windows 11 to run on older PCs with some disabled features out of the box, but didn't)
  - duskdozer 10mo ago
    Lots of people are now upgrading hardware because of the end of standard Windows 10 updates
tashoecraft 10mo ago
I've heard Github makes more money from copilot than everything else combined. You can think what you want about the strategy, but it's hard to ignore that.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  Easy when it’s forced onto every enterprise agreement and enabled by default in every vs code. C’mon man. You’re smarter than this.
  - arielcostas 10mo ago
    But enterprises may negotiate not to use (and pay) Copilot, can't they? Or go with another provider if it's such a big deal. Plus it being enabled by default in every VS Code (I haven't checked this, last I remember you need to sign in with GitHub) gets you on the free tier where you make zero revenue for Microsoft and some expense (not too much, probably).
    - reactordev 10mo ago
      No, no they can’t. Again, it’s a part of the agreement. It’s included and bundled with ANY service you order, like it or not.
      - square_usual 10mo ago
        So enterprises are just accepting paying twice as much as they used to for no value? The "c'mon man" should be directed at you!
        reactordev 10mo ago
        No it’s just baked in. Not opt in. Just baked in.
mbirth 10mo ago
You forgot that even poor old notepad.exe also got the Copilot treatment.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  Fuck did it really? How on earth does that pan out? Who uses notepad? Writers? Word. Coders? Vim or VSCode or <IDE of choice>. I just don’t understand their logic. They make this beautiful pasture (Windows XP wallpaper) and then lay mines all over the field. Put up signs that say “Free Lemonade” and charge for parking.
  - skydhash 10mo ago
    Lots of people do use Notepad as a digital notepad. Random texts, mostly, or as a clipboard manager. It used to start really fast.
    - pxoe 10mo ago
      It still starts very fast, even with quite large files and line wrapping. (pretty much on par with lite-xl, though lite-xl did get much faster with some recent version. prior to it though, it was easier and faster to launch notepad)
- BoredPositron 10mo ago
  ...and paint.
  - KellyCriterion 10mo ago
    NO! really? Are you just kidding, right? (I'm on an older server version, so I do not know)
    - BoredPositron 10mo ago
      Sadly not you can generate images with copilot directly in paint now.
runjake 10mo ago
I’m not sure why people are surprised. If you watch Nadella interviews, he tells you what he thinks and where he wants to take the company. He touts AI, services, agentic copilot, and all the other stuff customers are railing against. Some Windows manager got crucified on X recently for an enthusiastic tweet about turning Windows into an agentic OS. People called for this persons firing. But, this was straight out of Nadella’s playbook.
- stoneforger 10mo ago
  Windows users are not customers. Businesses are. Tech conglomerates and everyone adjacent are going for the big money, it's what everyone is doing , it really is a fantastic world devoid of anything but ROI numbers. The fastest way to get rich or die trying, gangstas got nothing on these cats.
  - runjake 10mo ago
    I'm doubtful many businesses are requesting many of these features. I don't think it's wise for them to want stuff like Recall (data exfiltration) or current state of the art agents doing calculations or analysis for them -- at least without a qualified human closely reviewing it's output and conclusions. I do see businesses wanting simpler, more reliable software with fluid and consistent interfaces, but MSFT isn't focusing on that.
    - array_key_first 10mo ago
      Business owners are stupid, and they, too, need to signal to their investors that they're "all in" on AI. AI is, currently, more of a culture than a product for businesses. At least, the ones that don't literally make the models. I'm sure a lot of business owners really do want all the AI stuff, and then their employees will just work around it, like they do with all sales or signaling driven decisions.
misswaterfairy 10mo ago
The bit that really annoyed me: you can't even remove the Copilot button from the Office ribbon any more. Microsoft simply have hidden the option in the Ribbon customisation settings. Even though I don't use it, and have disabled as much Copilot functionality as Microsoft will let me. I can't wait for this AI bubble to burst.
pjmlp 10mo ago
They have for a while, basically it was similar honeymoon phase like when Apple needed every developer help they could get back in 2000. Unfortunately both of them are back to their old selfs. However lets not forget that those big corporations, are the same ones that keep the lights on across many FOSS projects that get talked daily on HN.

conartist6 10mo ago

There is not Copilot, only Zuul.

mindcrash 10mo ago

"Just" some Copilot integration (in the form of chat or smart suggestions) is just the start. The next major Windows 11 update coming in 2026 will have full agentic AI with full control over your (your?) PC. And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work (so a lot more e-waste is coming). I fear for the future.

falcor84 10mo ago
> And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work Am I right to understand that as people don't upgrade their hardware, they're safe from that, right? Sounds like a plus to me.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  Nope, you go to upgrade, because windows update downloaded it and restarted, and it tells you “Your processor is not supported”. Why would it be any different than the Windows 7 -> Windows 10 debacle? Disabling entire processor families after it boots into installation and wiped the previous windows.
  - beAbU 10mo ago
    I think they fixed that to some degree. I have an old win10 PC that now has a persistent "upgrade to W11" banner that informs me my PC is below spec, so I can't upgrade. Fine by me!
    - dmicah 10mo ago
      Eventually Microsoft will stop providing security updates to their old OS, compelling users to upgrade if they want to stay on Windows
      - reactordev 10mo ago
        Which is fine. No one expects them to support everything forever.
        mindcrash 10mo ago
        A 2025 Linux kernel with all recent features is able to boot on a system from 2006. Likewise the Windows 11 (which is just a rebranded Windows 10, just look at the full build number which should start with 10.x) kernel could boot systems from ~2017 onwards. Maybe with some kernel features disabled which most (if not all) Windows 10 users would not miss anyway, but it could still boot without any issues. Those running a Rufus-patched Windows 11 are living proof of this. This never was a technical issue, or one which could cost them money, but a cold blooded business decision which generated thousands upon thousands of kilos of e-waste. And for what?
        reactordev 10mo ago
        >A 2025 Linux kernel with all recent features is able to boot on a system from 2006. Because no one on the kernel team likes deleting code, specifically because someone will try to install it on their old ass work laptop from a decade ago. Microsoft choosing not to support that old ass laptop is a company choice. There are costs involved with maintaining the support structure. Whereas Linux is primarily funded by enterprises who use it on servers, which may not be updated hardware wise in a longer period of time. If Linus Torvalds or Miguel De Icaza introduce copilot, I swear I’m going to go all in on BSD.
  - ragequittah 10mo ago
    Almost nobody has this functionality on their desktop processor. I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy but there's enough real problems to yell about without making some up. The agentic AI will even be entirely opt in.
    - mindcrash 10mo ago
      It's not. Like TPM and several new CPU features are a hard requirement for Windows 11, which are patched out by tools like Rufus but can lead to a broken system with every single update you install, a NPU is a hard requirement for the upcoming major update with agentic AI. They got a storm of criticism after that announcement, but Microsoft seemingly has not given a single fuck about that and has not backtracked on this decision. (Just like they technically could have allowed Windows 11 to run on older PCs with some disabled features out of the box, but didn't)
- duskdozer 10mo ago
  Lots of people are now upgrading hardware because of the end of standard Windows 10 updates

tashoecraft 10mo ago

I've heard Github makes more money from copilot than everything else combined. You can think what you want about the strategy, but it's hard to ignore that.

reactordev 10mo ago
Easy when it’s forced onto every enterprise agreement and enabled by default in every vs code. C’mon man. You’re smarter than this.
- arielcostas 10mo ago
  But enterprises may negotiate not to use (and pay) Copilot, can't they? Or go with another provider if it's such a big deal. Plus it being enabled by default in every VS Code (I haven't checked this, last I remember you need to sign in with GitHub) gets you on the free tier where you make zero revenue for Microsoft and some expense (not too much, probably).
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    No, no they can’t. Again, it’s a part of the agreement. It’s included and bundled with ANY service you order, like it or not.
    - square_usual 10mo ago
      So enterprises are just accepting paying twice as much as they used to for no value? The "c'mon man" should be directed at you!
      - reactordev 10mo ago
        No it’s just baked in. Not opt in. Just baked in.

mbirth 10mo ago

You forgot that even poor old notepad.exe also got the Copilot treatment.

reactordev 10mo ago
Fuck did it really? How on earth does that pan out? Who uses notepad? Writers? Word. Coders? Vim or VSCode or <IDE of choice>. I just don’t understand their logic. They make this beautiful pasture (Windows XP wallpaper) and then lay mines all over the field. Put up signs that say “Free Lemonade” and charge for parking.
- skydhash 10mo ago
  Lots of people do use Notepad as a digital notepad. Random texts, mostly, or as a clipboard manager. It used to start really fast.
  - pxoe 10mo ago
    It still starts very fast, even with quite large files and line wrapping. (pretty much on par with lite-xl, though lite-xl did get much faster with some recent version. prior to it though, it was easier and faster to launch notepad)
BoredPositron 10mo ago
...and paint.
- KellyCriterion 10mo ago
  NO! really? Are you just kidding, right? (I'm on an older server version, so I do not know)
  - BoredPositron 10mo ago
    Sadly not you can generate images with copilot directly in paint now.

runjake 10mo ago

I’m not sure why people are surprised. If you watch Nadella interviews, he tells you what he thinks and where he wants to take the company. He touts AI, services, agentic copilot, and all the other stuff customers are railing against. Some Windows manager got crucified on X recently for an enthusiastic tweet about turning Windows into an agentic OS. People called for this persons firing. But, this was straight out of Nadella’s playbook.

stoneforger 10mo ago
Windows users are not customers. Businesses are. Tech conglomerates and everyone adjacent are going for the big money, it's what everyone is doing , it really is a fantastic world devoid of anything but ROI numbers. The fastest way to get rich or die trying, gangstas got nothing on these cats.
- runjake 10mo ago
  I'm doubtful many businesses are requesting many of these features. I don't think it's wise for them to want stuff like Recall (data exfiltration) or current state of the art agents doing calculations or analysis for them -- at least without a qualified human closely reviewing it's output and conclusions. I do see businesses wanting simpler, more reliable software with fluid and consistent interfaces, but MSFT isn't focusing on that.
  - array_key_first 10mo ago
    Business owners are stupid, and they, too, need to signal to their investors that they're "all in" on AI. AI is, currently, more of a culture than a product for businesses. At least, the ones that don't literally make the models. I'm sure a lot of business owners really do want all the AI stuff, and then their employees will just work around it, like they do with all sales or signaling driven decisions.

misswaterfairy 10mo ago

The bit that really annoyed me: you can't even remove the Copilot button from the Office ribbon any more. Microsoft simply have hidden the option in the Ribbon customisation settings. Even though I don't use it, and have disabled as much Copilot functionality as Microsoft will let me. I can't wait for this AI bubble to burst.

pjmlp 10mo ago

They have for a while, basically it was similar honeymoon phase like when Apple needed every developer help they could get back in 2000. Unfortunately both of them are back to their old selfs. However lets not forget that those big corporations, are the same ones that keep the lights on across many FOSS projects that get talked daily on HN.