6 ms·

Microsoft doing Microsoft things, even with all those fresh coats of "open source" paint they bathe themselves in the last decade they really can't change their

Microsoft doing Microsoft things, even with all those fresh coats of "open source" paint they bathe themselves in the last decade they really can't change their DNA. Expect the amount of f*ckery to increase as the AI realities set in but the number has to go up either way. It reminds me of the good old days of Visual Studio + .NET + SQL Server where they played these games too.

alias_neo 10mo ago
This piece of news follows that of Copilot being added in an "update" to LG TVs with no option to disable or opt out. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844
- clever-leap 10mo ago
  Simple, do not purchase LG TV.
  - egeozcan 10mo ago
    I have a C8 from LG, and I'm so happy with it after so many years, works wonderfully as a dumb panel, and a great panel at that. I wonder if it's impossible to use the newer ones like that. Anyone has any experience? Asking because our neighbors want the same great "tv".
    - laaman02 10mo ago
      I recently bought a C5 and never connected it to the network. No issues so far.
      - kakacik 10mo ago
        This is my plan for beginning of new year (42" model), mixed games & desktop usage (I know oled ain't best for windows work but non-oled gaming monitors are rather crap ie due to non ideal local dimming, ghosting, mediocre colors compared to oled and so on). Didnt plan on making it also a TV with internet connection, now I darn sure as hell won't. Its really sad state of things that the best course of action now for new hardware is to simply use it as it is, never update or plug online since for any chance of any minor issue being fixed there is 100x the risk it will go to shit in substantial ways (I have Samsung q990d - they soundbar literally dying for good after an official update, but that one you had to at least push yourself from phone or via usb). Not possible with everything, or at least not without substantial hacking for many.
    - alias_neo 10mo ago
      I have to agree, simply not buying LG isn't an option, we'd have to rule out just about everyone for the same reason. I have a slightly older WebOS LG TV, it has PS5, Switch 2, and FireStick 4K Max and an Onkyo receiver plugged in, and as an OLED TV it's incredible, LG would always be my first choice for picture. Don't care about built-in sound as I use a sound-system. Right now I'm in the market for another TV at around 65inches and was looking at the 2025 model LG OLED, I likely won't connect it to the internet and will probably just hook up an Apple TV following some discussion in another comment section about how much I hate my Fire TV for being ad-ridden. Really I wish LG or someone would just make a dumb TV with 4+ HDMI, ARC, perhaps DP and a remote and let us hook up what we want; but it'll never happen.
  - snarfy 10mo ago
    Or their washing machines.
    - testrun 10mo ago
      Or their fridges.
    - tzs 10mo ago
      That seems a bit of an overreaction. The top 10 front loading washing machines on Consumer Reports' rating list are 8 LGs followed by a Samsung and another LG. If you don't want WiFi you can still get a top rated washer. The LG WM3400CW, which is in a 3 way tie for high score, does not have WiFi (or Bluetooth, or any other radio). Note: Consumer Reports says that it does have WiFi but they are mistaken. It does have LG's "SmartDiagnosis" which lets you view diagnostic data in their app which is probably what confused them. On models with WiFi the app gets the data via the network. On the 3400 you press some buttons on the washer to tell it to send diagnostics, and then it sends them acoustically similar to the way analog modems sent data. You tell their app to use the mic to listen to that and decode the data. The WM3470CW, #10 on the Consumer Reports list, also is radio free and uses sound for SmartDiagnosis. Consumer Reports correctly lists this one as not having WiFi.
      - BearOso 10mo ago
        > Front loading That's the problem. Front-loading washers have generally been a terrible invention. Unbalancing and mold are among the widespread problems. The actually reliable washers are still top-load.
        alias_neo 10mo ago
        I've always wondered, since we only have front-load washers here in the UK, is there some sort of advantage to it, aside from space, which seems to be the obvious one, does gravity help with battering the clothes around when the drum spins slowly enough they can fall from the top of the drum?
  - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
    I'm already not buying Samsung devices, I'll run out of choices soon.
    - bpavuk 10mo ago
      why not just use a big ol' monitor with a smart TV box and plain Android TV? or, even better, build a HTPC with Plasma Bigscreen or Bazzite?
      - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
        Because that would be a crap solution.
        bpavuk 10mo ago
        less crap than tons of buttons with region-blocked content, imho
    - duskdozer 10mo ago
      This is how I end up when I try voting with my wallet.
  - alphabettsy 10mo ago
    They’re fantastic imo. Don’t connect to them to the internet.
  - beezlewax 10mo ago
    I did this without researching enough and it its the worst ui experience going
- heavyset_go 10mo ago
  It's a crime what LG did to webOS. Somehow they turned something great into one of the worst smart TV experiences on the market.
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    I still find it better than Android TV though.
    - heavyset_go 10mo ago
      At least in my experience, most of the poor UX can be explained by the fact that LG shipped underpowered hardware for the OS and apps that are expected to run on it. I bought my TV a year ago and it lags or loses input on the main menu, and it's even worse in apps. Forget it if you want to use the overlay menu to change a setting lol If you remember Palm/HP webOS, it had Preware homebrew that didn't require exploits to run, it was supported by default and was amazing. LG patched the one vuln that would have let me at least root the TV. The Android TV devices I bought from reputable retailers are at least beefy enough to handle input without lag, and I can run whatever APK I want on them.
      - pjmlp 10mo ago
        The only software that I want to run on my TV are TV channels, and all the streaming operators, for anything else I have devices that I don't need to root. My Android TV on the other room is equally just good enough to run Android, also not going to win any benchmarks. Agree that the overlay menus on WebOS take their time to come up, but I am not going into them all the time for them to get into my nerves.
- deergomoo 10mo ago
  It’s funny, I never connected my G5 to the network or accepted any of the optional T&Cs, so there’s now numerous places in the UI that say “accept terms to see personalised content”. Uhhh no? I’m good thanks
reactordev 10mo ago
This made me laugh a bit as I remembered people saying “Oh we have Nadella now, things have changed”. Have they? Have they really? Windows Recall. VS Code forcing Copilot. Windows forcing Copilot. Office forcing Copilot. Azure forcing Copilot. GitHub forcing Copilot. Outlook forcing Copilot. Edge forcing Copilot. You folks are insane.
- conartist6 10mo ago
  There is not Copilot, only Zuul.
- mindcrash 10mo ago
  "Just" some Copilot integration (in the form of chat or smart suggestions) is just the start. The next major Windows 11 update coming in 2026 will have full agentic AI with full control over your (your?) PC. And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work (so a lot more e-waste is coming). I fear for the future.
  - falcor84 10mo ago
    > And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work Am I right to understand that as people don't upgrade their hardware, they're safe from that, right? Sounds like a plus to me.
    - reactordev 10mo ago
      Nope, you go to upgrade, because windows update downloaded it and restarted, and it tells you “Your processor is not supported”. Why would it be any different than the Windows 7 -> Windows 10 debacle? Disabling entire processor families after it boots into installation and wiped the previous windows.
      - beAbU 10mo ago
        I think they fixed that to some degree. I have an old win10 PC that now has a persistent "upgrade to W11" banner that informs me my PC is below spec, so I can't upgrade. Fine by me!
pjmlp 10mo ago
Yes, unfortunately I must acknowledge that Satya honeymoon is over. Than the .NET team acts surprised that despite going open source and cross platform, the non Microsoft shops still aren't rushing up to adopt it. They have to thank upper management for shxxxx on their great accomplishments among the community.

alias_neo 10mo ago

This piece of news follows that of Copilot being added in an "update" to LG TVs with no option to disable or opt out. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46268844

clever-leap 10mo ago
Simple, do not purchase LG TV.
- egeozcan 10mo ago
  I have a C8 from LG, and I'm so happy with it after so many years, works wonderfully as a dumb panel, and a great panel at that. I wonder if it's impossible to use the newer ones like that. Anyone has any experience? Asking because our neighbors want the same great "tv".
  - laaman02 10mo ago
    I recently bought a C5 and never connected it to the network. No issues so far.
    - kakacik 10mo ago
      This is my plan for beginning of new year (42" model), mixed games & desktop usage (I know oled ain't best for windows work but non-oled gaming monitors are rather crap ie due to non ideal local dimming, ghosting, mediocre colors compared to oled and so on). Didnt plan on making it also a TV with internet connection, now I darn sure as hell won't. Its really sad state of things that the best course of action now for new hardware is to simply use it as it is, never update or plug online since for any chance of any minor issue being fixed there is 100x the risk it will go to shit in substantial ways (I have Samsung q990d - they soundbar literally dying for good after an official update, but that one you had to at least push yourself from phone or via usb). Not possible with everything, or at least not without substantial hacking for many.
  - alias_neo 10mo ago
    I have to agree, simply not buying LG isn't an option, we'd have to rule out just about everyone for the same reason. I have a slightly older WebOS LG TV, it has PS5, Switch 2, and FireStick 4K Max and an Onkyo receiver plugged in, and as an OLED TV it's incredible, LG would always be my first choice for picture. Don't care about built-in sound as I use a sound-system. Right now I'm in the market for another TV at around 65inches and was looking at the 2025 model LG OLED, I likely won't connect it to the internet and will probably just hook up an Apple TV following some discussion in another comment section about how much I hate my Fire TV for being ad-ridden. Really I wish LG or someone would just make a dumb TV with 4+ HDMI, ARC, perhaps DP and a remote and let us hook up what we want; but it'll never happen.
- snarfy 10mo ago
  Or their washing machines.
  - testrun 10mo ago
    Or their fridges.
  - tzs 10mo ago
    That seems a bit of an overreaction. The top 10 front loading washing machines on Consumer Reports' rating list are 8 LGs followed by a Samsung and another LG. If you don't want WiFi you can still get a top rated washer. The LG WM3400CW, which is in a 3 way tie for high score, does not have WiFi (or Bluetooth, or any other radio). Note: Consumer Reports says that it does have WiFi but they are mistaken. It does have LG's "SmartDiagnosis" which lets you view diagnostic data in their app which is probably what confused them. On models with WiFi the app gets the data via the network. On the 3400 you press some buttons on the washer to tell it to send diagnostics, and then it sends them acoustically similar to the way analog modems sent data. You tell their app to use the mic to listen to that and decode the data. The WM3470CW, #10 on the Consumer Reports list, also is radio free and uses sound for SmartDiagnosis. Consumer Reports correctly lists this one as not having WiFi.
    - BearOso 10mo ago
      > Front loading That's the problem. Front-loading washers have generally been a terrible invention. Unbalancing and mold are among the widespread problems. The actually reliable washers are still top-load.
      - alias_neo 10mo ago
        I've always wondered, since we only have front-load washers here in the UK, is there some sort of advantage to it, aside from space, which seems to be the obvious one, does gravity help with battering the clothes around when the drum spins slowly enough they can fall from the top of the drum?
- tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
  I'm already not buying Samsung devices, I'll run out of choices soon.
  - bpavuk 10mo ago
    why not just use a big ol' monitor with a smart TV box and plain Android TV? or, even better, build a HTPC with Plasma Bigscreen or Bazzite?
    - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
      Because that would be a crap solution.
      - bpavuk 10mo ago
        less crap than tons of buttons with region-blocked content, imho
  - duskdozer 10mo ago
    This is how I end up when I try voting with my wallet.
- alphabettsy 10mo ago
  They’re fantastic imo. Don’t connect to them to the internet.
- beezlewax 10mo ago
  I did this without researching enough and it its the worst ui experience going
heavyset_go 10mo ago
It's a crime what LG did to webOS. Somehow they turned something great into one of the worst smart TV experiences on the market.
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  I still find it better than Android TV though.
  - heavyset_go 10mo ago
    At least in my experience, most of the poor UX can be explained by the fact that LG shipped underpowered hardware for the OS and apps that are expected to run on it. I bought my TV a year ago and it lags or loses input on the main menu, and it's even worse in apps. Forget it if you want to use the overlay menu to change a setting lol If you remember Palm/HP webOS, it had Preware homebrew that didn't require exploits to run, it was supported by default and was amazing. LG patched the one vuln that would have let me at least root the TV. The Android TV devices I bought from reputable retailers are at least beefy enough to handle input without lag, and I can run whatever APK I want on them.
    - pjmlp 10mo ago
      The only software that I want to run on my TV are TV channels, and all the streaming operators, for anything else I have devices that I don't need to root. My Android TV on the other room is equally just good enough to run Android, also not going to win any benchmarks. Agree that the overlay menus on WebOS take their time to come up, but I am not going into them all the time for them to get into my nerves.
deergomoo 10mo ago
It’s funny, I never connected my G5 to the network or accepted any of the optional T&Cs, so there’s now numerous places in the UI that say “accept terms to see personalised content”. Uhhh no? I’m good thanks

reactordev 10mo ago

This made me laugh a bit as I remembered people saying “Oh we have Nadella now, things have changed”. Have they? Have they really? Windows Recall. VS Code forcing Copilot. Windows forcing Copilot. Office forcing Copilot. Azure forcing Copilot. GitHub forcing Copilot. Outlook forcing Copilot. Edge forcing Copilot. You folks are insane.

conartist6 10mo ago
There is not Copilot, only Zuul.
mindcrash 10mo ago
"Just" some Copilot integration (in the form of chat or smart suggestions) is just the start. The next major Windows 11 update coming in 2026 will have full agentic AI with full control over your (your?) PC. And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work (so a lot more e-waste is coming). I fear for the future.
- falcor84 10mo ago
  > And it will hard require a pretty recent processor with Neural Processor Unit to make it work Am I right to understand that as people don't upgrade their hardware, they're safe from that, right? Sounds like a plus to me.
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    Nope, you go to upgrade, because windows update downloaded it and restarted, and it tells you “Your processor is not supported”. Why would it be any different than the Windows 7 -> Windows 10 debacle? Disabling entire processor families after it boots into installation and wiped the previous windows.
    - beAbU 10mo ago
      I think they fixed that to some degree. I have an old win10 PC that now has a persistent "upgrade to W11" banner that informs me my PC is below spec, so I can't upgrade. Fine by me!

pjmlp 10mo ago

Yes, unfortunately I must acknowledge that Satya honeymoon is over. Than the .NET team acts surprised that despite going open source and cross platform, the non Microsoft shops still aren't rushing up to adopt it. They have to thank upper management for shxxxx on their great accomplishments among the community.