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The World Happiness Report is beset with methodological problems
- didgetmaster 10mo ago[dead]
- briandw 10mo agoNo kidding. I lived in Finland for a few years and no way are they some of the happiest people.
- IAmBroom 10mo agoWhom are you replying to? The only other comment I see about Finland agrees with the take that they are happiest.
- 4ndrewl 10mo agoI guess kudos for doing a deep dive into this, but was it necessary? Aren't all of these types of things (unhappiest day of the year, best day to be born on, age that we're happiest etc) clearly pseudo-scientific/scientistic babble - and brands can then just use them to sell the Scandi (or whatever) lifestyle. Nobody who believes this is going to be swayed by your anaylsis. :)
- itsdrewmiller 10mo agoShould outlets like the NYT be reporting uncritically on pseudoscience? As long as they are I think this kind of work is extremely valuable.
- griffzhowl 10mo agoHow much of the article did you read? The main substance of it is not that the UN rankings are flawed, but how the rankings change based on the broader analysis by Blanchflower and Bryson. That result can't so easily be read off from our cynical preconceptions
- Analemma_ 10mo agoYes, it's necessary, and getting more so all the time: lately I've been seeing more and more commentary trying to tie happiness measurements to some political stance: "conservatives are happier than liberals", "women are happier after divorce", etc. And increasingly it's not coming just from random commenters, but from people with real power. In such an environment it's vital to know if the methodology for measuring happiness is good or bunk.
- staticman2 10mo agoThe survey being used was created by a Princeton University psychology professor. It may or may not be useful but there's nothing obviously pseudo-scientific about it. I do not think the linked article writer is making that claim.
- hamdingers 10mo ago> “Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten at the top. Suppose we say that the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. If the top step is 10 and the bottom step is 0, on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time?” My immediate problem with this is the lower bound of responses in a given country would be determined by your perception of the safety nets available to you. Someone in a Scandinavian country where there are virtually no unsheltered homeless people probably doesn't index their zero to "dying of exposure on the sidewalk due to untreated mental illness," while an American who sees that regularly would.
- celeryd 10mo agoSomeone in a Scandinavian country is probably well informed of how terrible it is for the poorest and most vulnerable outside their country. The indexes are probably the same. The person in the Scandinavian country, when asked this question, will think "hmm, well I am not in America, so I will add 3 steps to my answer" and, och se där, up they go to the top of the World Ranking.
- oakhaven 10mo agoI don't think that people in Scandinavia are well informed about how life can be for the poorest outside of their country. > bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life >>>for you<<<. ..and when asked this, I believe they consider how bad it can get for them in their country. Based on my experience living and talking with people in Scandinavia and eastern europe.
- BurningFrog 10mo agoAs a Swede, I've always been confused by these results. The self image of Swedes is that we're fairly miserable on average, and don't know how to enjoy life as much as some people in warmer climates. That said, note that both things mentioned in here will raise average happiness: > But it turns out that the residents of the same Scandinavian countries that the press dutifully celebrates for their supposed happiness are especially likely to take antidepressants or even to commit suicide.
- rodrigodlu 10mo agoAs an introvert living in Rio de Janeiro, I can tell you that a lot of being happier in a hot climate with a lot of people around is just a social mask. When I start deep questions about financial safety, the future and so on, just by asking I can be labelled as a pessimist. And I'm far from that. I'm a fairly resolved and confident introvert, but I know many timid people that feel ashamed that they don't feel "happy" in these large group of people, that are extremely agitated and yelling around to grab some piece of attention they need. And what is being shown in social media, documentaries and etc is just one pov.
- PLMUV9A4UP27D 10mo agoIt's a good point about living in a hot climate often being associated with living a happy life. Although to what I've seen, there isn't much evidence for such a correlation.
- BurningFrog 10mo agoSimple theory: In a warm climate you see people walking around feeling comfortable. In a cold climate, the people you see are freezing.
- bluGill 10mo agoPeople are not freezing in a cold climate - they have plenty of coats on. In hot climates you run out of clothes to take off - even nudists.
- tigranbs 10mo agoAs a US person, I have lived in Finland for 3 years, and I can assure you that the Finns are the most content people you can imagine! They can go months without talking to anyone and still consider themselves "happy", but the correct word in English is "content". That report is correct, it just they advertise with the wrong word in the headline, I guess because it is more click-bate title than having it as "The most content country"
- Ekaros 10mo agoAs Finn I would agree. Finland is fine. Not the greatest and not happiest. But overall it is fine still. In most areas cost of living is pretty reasonable, services are sufficient. Police for example does good enough job. Probably could earn more money somewhere else, but why bother...
- euroderf 10mo agoYou don't see many cops in Finland. You just don't. Firstly because the social benefits system keeps a lot of people out of trouble ' call it bribery if you like, but it meets basic needs. Secondly because there's a lot of private "security" types around - for example in the supermarkets, keeping out drunks and dealing with shoplifters - letting the police focus on the real stuff.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- Herring 10mo agoIt's extremely important if you're interested in social stability. Unhappy people have a tendency to turn authoritarian and lash about, hurting both their own society and anyone who looks different.
- QuercusMax 10mo agoI dunno, "discontent" is a pretty politically charged word, going back to Shakespeare - "Now is the winter of our discontent" from Richard III is referring to an attempted political overthrow. Unhappiness sounds much more pedestrian.
- hiAndrewQuinn 10mo agoI have lived in Finland for the past four years, having emigrated from the US like the other poster here, and the WHR is a common punching bag topic amongst locals here. The odd thing however is that when I ask them whether they think the average Finn is happy, they say absolutely not, but when I ask them whether they themselves are happy, most of the time I get a "oh this place is actually pretty great for weirdos like me, I just mean like, normal people would hate it here". But that's the thing: No one normal chooses to live in Finland!
- bflesch 10mo agoFinns are amazing!
- PLMUV9A4UP27D 10mo agoAs a Finn, I can confirm this.
- Lerc 10mo agoThis is a fairly common discrepancy between how people perceive the mean/median of a property is compared to the mean/median of how they themselves are. You see it in things like business confidence going in both directions at various times, pessimism when things are going well, optimism when things are going poorly. It is very convenient in politics, because you can choose which figure to report to make it seem like you are saying the same thing but you can switch between them to make things look good (or bad l, depending on your attention)
- QuercusMax 10mo agoI have a relative who decided to move up to Baffin Island and get into long-distance arctic trekking. She'd probably fit right in.
- burningChrome 10mo agoPlayed hockey with several Finns. They always seemed grumpy about something. The Norwegians and Swedes I played soccer with always had a more cheerful disposition. They always made fun of the Northern Finns, saying, "You'd be grumpy AF too if you had to deal with Winter for 7 months every year!"
- autoexec 10mo agoHappiness is a purely subjective thing. It's plainly obvious that any attempt at such comparisons will be doomed to be of limited utility. There are plenty of other ways you could try to go about getting something more useful, but none of them will be perfect. The good news is that we don't need a perfect happiness report to think about the things various countries are either doing very well or very poorly and how our own lives might be changed if the place where we live did things differently. The World Happiness Reports gets attention year after year because it prompts that kind of thinking and there is value in that.
- dang 10mo agoRelated. Others? U.S. hits new low in World Happiness Report - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45378896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45378896 - Sept 2025 (277 comments) U.S. No Longer Ranks Among 20 Happiest Countries - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39763595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39763595 - March 2024 (92 comments) The Finnish Secret to Happiness? Knowing When You Have Enough - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411641 - April 2023 (19 comments) World Happiness Report 2023 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35230812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35230812 - March 2023 (2 comments) World Happiness Report, 2019 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19615776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19615776 - April 2019 (60 comments) Why Denmark dominates the World Happiness Report rankings year after year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16720551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16720551 - March 2018 (3 comments) Happiness report: Norway is the happiest place on earth - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13913145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13913145 - March 2017 (158 comments) World Happiness Report 2015 [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10793969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10793969 - Dec 2015 (22 comments) Denmark 'happiest' country in the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=234018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=234018 - July 2008 (1 comment) --- Bonus highlight: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5152494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5152494 (Feb 2013)
- dang 10mo agoAs Garrison Keillor said about the Nordics: "We Lutherans are an optimistic people—our glass is half empty and we're grateful for it." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5152494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5152494
- RamblingCTO 10mo agoI've just had this topic with friends. How can finland and the nordics be further up than, say, spain? Have they ever been? Sure, materialistic safety is better up there. But the way of living, at least in my experience, is way higher. Look at suicide rates and alcoholism and such. I'll spoil it: - Finland 38 - Norway 71 - Spain 137 (fun fact: USA is 31) ranked by suicide. If you visit it, and the vibes and feelings you have don't match the statistics, the statistics are shit I'd say. And maybe cities and rural areas destroy this statistic. But what do I know (but the article agrees with me)
- BurningFrog 10mo agoNote that people who commit suicide don't answer surveys anymore.
- M95D 10mo agoPeople are usually unhappy for a long time before that happens.
- bendtb 10mo agoThere is also a religious element to suicide that cannot be overlooked. Also, I Spain your view of Spain is tainted. I think very few people would choose an average city in Spain over e.g. Copenhagen where 20% of the Danish population live.
- GoatOfAplomb 10mo agoAll the Spanish cities I've visited have looked "perfect", but there's a lot I don't see as a tourist, e.g. that Spain has one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe (10.5%).
- PLMUV9A4UP27D 10mo agoFinland is now close to Spain when it comes to unemployment rate! Let's see how that affects Finland's ranking.
- dosinga 10mo agoI don't know. The World Happiness Report relies on one simple question, which is easy to criticise but at least it applies a clear and consistent method. The paper referred to does not. It uses a special US dataset for states and a much smaller global dataset for every other country, then treats the results as if they measure the same thing. This setup almost guarantees that US states look unusually good. The authors present this as evidence, but it mostly reflects differences in survey design rather than real differences in wellbeing. In that sense the methodological problems here are more serious than the ones they point to in the World Happiness Report.
- a_victorp 10mo agoCame to say the same thing. The author criticizes the happiness report methodology than immediately cites a report full of methodological problems
- awb0 10mo agoOne way to interpret this is not as the author's endorsement of the other report, but as a demonstration of how fragile these happiness rankings are to perturbations in methodology / definition.
- nxobject 10mo agoApropos to that: I wish the author had said more about critically evaluating tweaks in methodology and definition. (For example, he cites Blanchflower and Bryson because he prefers positive affect as a measurement of happiness – but doesn't note that Blanchflower and Bryson pool data for 2008-2017, so in terms of rankings they may be measuring something meaningful but different.)
- rkagerer 10mo agoIn case others are wondering what the one simple question is (called the Cantril Ladder): “Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten at the top. Suppose we say that the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. If the top step is 10 and the bottom step is 0, on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time?” Personally feels a little more convoluted than just asking "How happy are you, on a scale of 0-10?"
- estomagordo 10mo agoThe author would do well to educate themselves on the difference between Scandinavia and the Nordics.
- oldestofsports 10mo agoIt doesn’t matter. Finland is often included when talking about Scandinavia, which in modern days just makes sense culturally. There’s no value in trying to cling to the ”histprically correct” meaning of a particular term. Languages evolve, dictionaries change.
- estomagordo 10mo ago"evolve" meaning "diluted because lots of people are dumb"
- oldestofsports 10mo agoThat mindset will make you a grumpy old soul. Language is dynamic, not something you can force upon people. From every mouth to ear (or screen to eye) the word is interpreted slightly different. I mean the original meaning of the word Scandinavia certainly doesnt make sense anymore: 1765, from Late Latin Scandinavia (Pliny), Skandinovia (Pomponius Mela), name of a large and fruitful island vaguely located in northern Europe, a mistake (with unetymological -n-) for Scadinavia, which is from a Germanic source (compare Old English Scedenig, Old Norse Skaney "south end of Sweden"), from Proto-Germanic skadinaujo "Scadia island." The first element is of uncertain origin; the second element is from aujo "thing on the water" (from PIE root *akwā- "water;" see aqua-). It might have been an island when the word was formed; the coastlines and drainage of the Baltic Sea changed dramatically after the melting of the ice caps.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- rendall 10mo agoAddressed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46298857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46298857
- PLMUV9A4UP27D 10mo agoA Finn here. And just as many other finns, I'm confused to why Finland ranks at the top. Yet, this seems like a case of someone looking to disprove a theory and thus finds the arguments. For example; Health metrics isn't a good measure, considering that Scandinavia has free health care, and this leads to more cases of mental health issues are recorded. Suicides aren't a great metric either, considering that Swedes and Finns have fairly high level of access to guns. I do agree that happiness is a term that is difficult to define, and that "happiness" is a bit misleading. "Content" is a better description. Also, I think it's easy to misunderstand the Finns from the surface of us. We don't exhibit happiness, and we don't express happiness in a way that is easily observed. Finland ranks at the top of trust in other people, and being one of the least corrupt countries in the world. Those two metrics are a hint into how we Finns relate to other people. Also, it's difficult to get to know Finns, and for this reason it's difficult for outsiders to understand the Finns and the mentality. On the anecdotal side, earlier this year I solo-traveled the US for 4 weeks, and out of those I got into deeper conversations, I was struck by how sad people were. That made me more convinced that I live a very happy life, in a happy place. Edit: Some references: Weapons per capita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... Corruption index: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2024 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2024 Trust in others: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-people-trust-each-other-most-by-country/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-people-trust-e...
- bflesch 10mo agoAlso regarding "comparison of suicide numbers", in many religious regions suicide is a problem for your soul and therefore a problem for your still-living relatives. So there is a huge incentive for religious societies to let a family member's suicide appear like an accident. Suicide rates are an extension of mental health disease rates and extremely hard to compare without correcting for many factors.
- nxor 10mo ago[dead]
- cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
- marifjeren 10mo agoThe only problem the author points out is that he doesn't like the Cantril Ladder question. I get it if you feel like that question falls short of representing your own personal concept of happiness, but that question is the standard in positive psychology research for measuring self reported subjective well being, and hardly enough to say the report is "beset with methodological problems".
- notahacker 10mo agoThe more practical problem is that the samples used in the Gallup World Poll are for largely unavoidable reasons small and not representative of entire country demographics; in particular respondents can skew richer and more educated than their national average in poorer countries.
- imgabe 10mo agoThey give several well-considered criticisms of the question - it leads people to focus on socioecomonic status, it doesn't correlate with other measure like whether they report experiencing joy recently, etc. It's not much of a defense to simply say "well, it's the standard".
- jltsiren 10mo agoIs joy related to happiness, or are they two separate concepts? That depends on your cultural background and the languages you speak. The World Happiness Report can be traced back to the UN General Assembly Resolution 65/309, which was proposed by Bhutan. Therefore the intended definition of happiness in this context is similar to the one in Bhutan's Gross National Happiness index.
- marifjeren 10mo agoMy criticism is about how the dramatic language differs from the banal content of the article. Titling it "The World Happiness Report Is a Sham" and calling it "beset with methodological problems", I would expect some more serious scientific malpractices, like data fabrication, calculation errors, sampling problems, p-hacking, etc., not "I think there are some problems with this variable".
- zkmon 10mo agoUnless it includes Sentinel islands, I'm not going to spend any reading minutes on those reports.
- paulsutter 10mo agoNormalizing for language and culture seem like the hardest parts of any global survey. How are the translations done of that one question and are there any cultural implications?
- jampekka 10mo agoThe World Happiness Report extensively discusses positive and negative affect in Chapter 2 and the relatively high suicide/death of despair rates of the Nordic countries in Chapter 6. These seem to be totally ignored in TFA. https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/caring-and-sharing-global-analysis-of-happiness-and-kindness/ https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/caring-and-sharing... https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/supporting-others-how-prosocial-behaviour-reduces-deaths-of-despair/ https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/supporting-others-...
- rdtsc 10mo ago> At a minimum, you would expect the happiest countries in the world to have some of the lowest incidences of adverse mental health outcomes. But it turns out that the residents of the same Scandinavian countries that the press dutifully celebrates for their supposed happiness are especially likely to take antidepressants or even to commit suicide. Exactly. WHR is a wonderful tool to study how policy institutes and media work together to build a narrative over the years. > “Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten at the top. Suppose we say that the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. If the top step is 10 and the bottom step is 0, on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time?” One issue identified in the article that in some countries that really isn't taken to mean happiness, it's taken to mean "wealth". My take is simple that someone locked in a cage for the rest of their life without a chance to escape can still confidently put a 10 down. The cage may very well be golden, so it doesn't say much about their absolute happiness or suffering so to speak. Another situation is a person who sees more achievable opportunity - "if I can do x, y, z, I'll be higher on the ladder". Then they'd report themselves low, because they see a path to reach higher. But in the report they'll just look like the saddest person ever.
- logifail 10mo ago> To put it bluntly, it is a sham I suspect there may be a pattern, every time I hear on the radio that it's "World $x Day" I'm afraid I start wondering who's actually behind that specific press release and/or what funding and incentives are really in play...
- levocardia 10mo ago>At a minimum, you would expect the happiest countries in the world to have some of the lowest incidences of adverse mental health outcomes. But it turns out that the residents of the same Scandinavian countries that the press dutifully celebrates for their supposed happiness are especially likely to take antidepressants or even to commit suicide. "Ecological fallacy! Ecological fallacy!," I screamed, flapping my arms pointlessly at my laptop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy#Individual_and_aggregate_correlations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy#Individual_...
- nitwit005 10mo agoI just can't feel confident in any form of self report. In a world where people have difficulty getting their spouses and children to talk honestly about their feelings, how well do we think a survey can do? It varies wildly by culture, but we're all conditioned somewhat to falsely report our feelings. I don't expect an honest answer if I greet someone with "How are you doing?".
- SiempreViernes 10mo ago> I just can't feel confident in any form of self report How do you decide what to eat when you are out with friends if asking them for their opinion is out? Or do you ask but then spend all night afterwards worrying that maybe they lied and you should have gone for tacos instead? Seems exhausting, why not trust people a little?
- nitwit005 10mo agoPeople admit they lie on surveys. There have, somewhat ironically, been surveys about this: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29206289 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29206289 I'm afraid struggles with dishonesty about what they want to eat is a somewhat common relationship problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/sydaj0/wife_shoots_down_all_my_ideas_for_dinner/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/sydaj0/w...
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- owenversteeg 10mo agoI can't stand the conflation of "satisfied" and "happy." It's insane. There is more happiness in one Zimbabwean (country "happiness" rank: 143) than in one hundred Icelanders (country "happiness" rank: 2, worldwide antidepressant consumption rank: 1.) Go stand in a crowd of people and count the fucking smiles and the fucking laughter. It is all part of this broader wave of newspeak. If you can quite literally redefine happiness, you can redefine anything. Nothing has meaning anymore. You will live alone, you will consume antidepressants, you will be protected from the sunlight, you will not smile, you will not laugh, and you will be happy.
- deaux 10mo agoI agree. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts on happiness without contention vs contention without happiness. To me, the former "feels" preferable, but I'm not sure whether it actually is.
- lioeters 10mo agoThis hits the nail on the head. The happiest people I've met in my life, and I've been literally around the world, are in some of the poorest "developing" countries. Their basic needs were met, food and shelter, at least for the day. But they didn't have much more, except their friends, family, and the nature around them - forests, rivers, mountains and ocean. The saddest people I've seen were in the richest countries, like the U.S. and Germany. Yes, the homeless population, I've met them too - but more surprisingly, the wealthy ruling class. They've conquered the land, covered it with concrete and asphalt, colonized their own public, produce and broadcast mass media entertainment, and command the largest militaries. Yet their culture has clearly devolved and degenerated, propped up by drugs, cosmetic surgery, nice clothes, nice houses, nice cars. But it's not enough to fill that emptiness inside. It's a simplification of course, there are many very miserable poor people, that's the base majority of humanity, on whom the pyramid of modern civilization is built. But I have no respect for those at the top, the self-styled kings of today. They're deeply unhappy people who are not fit to lead the world, much less themselves.
- arethuza 10mo ago
- albumen 10mo agoThis comprehensive response/rebuttal [1] buried in the article’s comments, by one of the authors of the World Happiness Report, is worth reading. One of the most interesting points is how subjective well-being indicators predict people’s voting behavior: “…in 2016 US presidential elections, subjective well-being indicators - especially Cantril Ladder now and expected Cantril Ladder in five years - measured on a county level predicted voting for Trump better than any county-level economic indicator.” The unhappier people were, the more likely they voted for Trump. Also, it links to a report on why Nordic countries tend to perform so well on life evaluation indicators: “ the most prominent explanations include factors related to the quality of institutions, such as reliable and extensive welfare benefits, low corruption, and well-functioning democracy and state institutions. Furthermore, Nordic citizens experience a high sense of autonomy and freedom, as well as high levels of social trust towards each other, which play an important role in determining life satisfaction. On the other hand, we show that a few popular explanations for Nordic happiness such as the small population and homogeneity of the Nordic countries, and a few counterarguments against Nordic happiness such as the cold weather and the suicide rates, actually don’t seem to have much to do with Nordic happiness.” [1] https://open.substack.com/pub/yaschamounk/p/the-world-happiness-report-is-a-sham?utm_source=direct&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=102461854 https://open.substack.com/pub/yaschamounk/p/the-world-happin...
- screye 10mo agoThere are no material conditions that would convince me to live in a cold, dark and culturally introverted place. Anecdotally, my tropical peers agree with this opinion. Seasonal affective disorder plays an outsized role in my ability to like a place. On the flip side, I've heard many people describe living in warm & humid weather as torture. My point is, aggregating factors for happiness to find the best country is like aggregating people's favorite colors to find the best color. Each individual's needs and circumstances are unique, and what will make them happy will vary widely as those needs and circumstances vary. Some interesting (suspect?) findings from the quoted 2023 paper: (2008 - 2017 data) * Somaliland had the 4th least worries * Russians were the 7th least angry * Chinese were the 8th best rested * Icelanders did great on every metric, but felt very tired (rank 190) * Venezuelans smiled the 12th most (Panama, Paraguay, Costa Rica did even better) * Laotians smile the 3rd most, but are also among the angriest (202) !!?
- adolph 10mo ago> Laotians smile the 3rd most, but are also among the angriest From "Be Careful Where You Smile: Culture Shapes Judgments of Intelligence and Honesty of Smiling Individuals" Although numerous studies confirm that positive perceptions of smiling individuals seem to be universal, anecdotal evidence suggests that in some cultures the opposite may be true. For example, a well-known Russian proverb says ‘Улыбкa, бeз пpичины - пpизнaк дypaчины’ (smiling with no reason is a sign of stupidity). The Norwegian government humorously explains nuances of Norwegian culture by indicating that when a stranger on the street smiles at Norwegians, they may assume that the stranger is insane https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4840223/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4840223/
- typs 10mo agoI grew up in a very warm place, then moved to a very cold place and was miserable. I’d never done a winter and every year I was deeply unhappy for huge spans of the year. But then I moved to Denmark from that cold place and found myself very happy! Of course circumstances change and a single account means little but I definitely believe some societies lend themselves to greater happiness than others, even in the very developed world.
- didgetmaster 10mo agoThere is an old saying that you are as happy as you choose to be. While some people have experienced very challenging circumstances and have trouble feeling happy; most miserable people are that way because they let little things get in the way of their happiness. There are rich, healthy, popular people who feel awful. They might feel like a failure because they are constantly comparing themselves with more successful people (or at least believe all the wonderful posts on social media). They might immerse themselves in negative thoughts about the world and their own immediate surroundings. But if you are always counting your blessings and trying to serve people who are less fortunate; you might realize that 'It's a Wonderful Life'.
- foobar1962 10mo ago> ..the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you... on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time? 10, I'm living my best possible life. It's conceivable that my "best possible life" may not be as happy as the lifes of other people, but I have achieved the maximum that's possible for me. Any other "possible life" would require some combination of different genes, being in a different place and living at a different time.
- bluGill 10mo agoI see a high mark as a sign you lack the ability to dream. I can imangine living in a mansion with my own personal hockey rink, and dozens of other weird luxuries that I could never afford (and realistically wouldn't use often if at all). Just the difference between that dream and my normal suburban house lowers me to a three. I can think of lots of non house things my best possible life would have - not all are even physically possible and many others are not moral (a few dozen wives who are devoted only to me)
- foobar1962 10mo agoReally? Satisfied people lack the ability to dream?
- bluGill 10mo agoThey dream, but it is a different type of dream.
- drloewi 10mo agoI read this critique when it came out, although you can really stop at the part where he claims that it's flawed because it's self-reported. This just totally, fundamentally, misses the point, and value, of the study. Do you think you should decide how good your life is? Or do you think I should decide how good your life is? Mounk appears to think he should be the one deciding. This is the deeper, and fatal, problem with his complaints. But that just means the Cantril ladder is a good outcome variable — the WHR is in fact profoundly flawed, but the important flaws are in the predictors they use to “explain” (their word) the outcomes. They’re hand-picked, they’re over a decade old which is well before the majority of their own data was collected, they’re not even consistent with the report itself, and when they talk about them in public (I was at the 2025 launch party), they don’t even take them seriously, as if they know it’s not meaningful — and yet they continue to be the single largest data product of the report, every single year. And this is critical. Who’s #1 is always in the headlines but Why is far more important than Rank. We don’t really care who has the best life — we want to know how we can get a better life. Yet most of the predictable conversation — here, but also literally on stage at Gallup — is just total speculation about the real answer, while sitting in front of 20 years of data. This is insane. Which is why I’ve spent three years building a better model, starting from a base of 180x more variables, and using objective methods of computational variable selection instead of just deciding what I think should make people happy — because that’s self-evidently just inexcusably bad science. The result is measurably more accurate than the WHR. White paper is here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5655570 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5655570 Tl:dr; Basic Needs, (Local and Global) Social Support, and (Local and Global) Self-Determination describe almost all of the findings, but many of the specific variables that emerge as the strongest predictors are things like LGBTQ+ social acceptance, women in white collar jobs, and meaningful, democratically accessible political power. Which just aren’t in the WHR model. The lessons to take, and the direction it points, are just in a profoundly different direction. This is the real flaw of the WHR — it doesn’t actually show us how to make the world better. Footnote: The Cantril ladder has now been used for literally 60 years, and new major studies continue to choose it as their outcome measure, because 60 years of research have demonstrated it is stable, meaningful, intuitive, and consistently understood across languages, cultures, and geographies. Plus it’s 1. self-reported, 2. all-encompassing, 3. single-scale, and 4. quantitative, all of which are unavoidable properties of a usable outcome, so even if the wording changes somewhat, any worthwhile question is going to look, basically, like it. And yes the tangled use of “happiness” vs “satisfaction” is stupid, misleading, and inconsistent, but when you just accept that one is the correct version and one is the PR version, you eventually get over it.
- drloewi 10mo agoThe WHR is in fact profoundly flawed — but for a completely different reason. I read this critique when it came out, although you can really stop at the part where he claims that it's flawed because it's self-reported. This just totally, fundamentally, misses the point, and value, of the study. Do you think you should decide how good your life is? Or do you think I should decide how good your life is? Mounk appears to think he should be the one deciding (which is what you’re doing when you manufacture an “objective” version, rather than believing the provided answer). This is the deeper, and fatal, problem with his complaints. (The critique of the Ladder as being biased towards fame and fortune sounds important, until you actually model satisfaction and find that those variables just aren’t the dominant predictors.) But that just means the Cantril ladder is a good outcome variable — the WHR is in fact profoundly flawed, but the important flaws are in the predictors they use to “explain” (their word) the outcomes. They’re hand-picked, they’re over a decade old which is well before the majority of their own data was collected, they’re not even consistent with the report itself, and when they talk about them in public (I was at the 2025 launch party), they don’t even take them seriously, as if they know it’s not meaningful — and yet they continue to be the single largest data product of the report, every single year. And this is critical. Who’s #1 is always in the headlines but Why is far more important than Rank. We don’t really care who has the best life — we want to know how we can get a better life. Yet most of the predictable conversation — here, but also literally on stage at Gallup — is just total speculation about the real answer, while sitting in front of over 20 years of data. This is insane. Which is why I’ve spent three years building a better model, starting from a base of 180x more variables, and using error-driven methods of computational variable selection instead of just deciding what I think should make people happy — because that’s self-evidently just inexcusably bad science. The result is measurably more accurate than the WHR. White paper is here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5655570 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5655570 Tl:dr; Basic Needs, (Local and Global) Social Support, and (Local and Global) Self-Determination describe almost all of the findings, but many of the specific variables that emerge as the strongest predictors are things like LGBTQ+ social acceptance, women in white collar jobs, and meaningful, democratically accessible political power. Which just aren’t in the WHR model. The lessons to take, and the direction it points, are just in a profoundly different direction. This is the real flaw of the WHR — it doesn’t actually show us how to make the world better. Footnote, based on the conversation: The Cantril ladder has now been used for literally 60 years, and new major studies continue to choose it as their outcome measure, because 60 years of research have demonstrated it is stable, meaningful, intuitive, and consistently understood across languages, cultures, and geographies. Plus it’s 1. self-reported, 2. all-encompassing, 3. single-scale, and 4. quantitative, all of which are unavoidable properties of a usable outcome, so even if the wording changes somewhat, any worthwhile question is going to look, basically, like it. And yes the tangled use of “happiness” vs “satisfaction” is stupid, misleading, and inconsistent, but when you just accept that one is the correct version and one is the PR version, you eventually get over it.
- gweinberg 10mo agoI don't understand why anyone thinks self-reported happiness scores mean anything at all. I don't see how they possibly could. If someone says he's a 10 on his personal scale I guess that means he can't imagine being much happier, but I don't see how that means he's particularly happy.
- Hamuko 10mo ago>The happiest countries in the world are in Scandinavia; this year, Finland is followed by Denmark, Iceland and Sweden. Finland and Iceland are not in Scandinavia. Iceland is in fact an island quite far removed from the peninsula.
- rendall 10mo agoThere is no coherent principle that that cleanly includes Denmark, Norway, and Sweden while excluding Finland. Not geography, language, religion, culture or history. Finland is not on the Scandinavian Peninsula, but it is physically contiguous with Sweden and Norway and deeply integrated into the same northern European ecological, economic, and transport space. If peninsulas are the criterion, then Denmark is already a special pleading exception. Finland is officially bilingual, Swedish is a national language, and Swedish is historically entrenched in Finnish administration, law, and elites. Meanwhile Finnish is spoken by a large minority in Sweden. So language does not draw a clean boundary. Lutheranism dominates across Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland. Finnish culture is distinct in some ways, but so is Icelandic relative to Denmark, and Norwegian relative to Swedish. Distinctiveness exists inside the supposed core as much as between core and periphery. Finland was part of the Swedish realm for centuries, was governed through the same institutions, and emerged into modernity shaped by the same legal and administrative traditions.
- euroderf 10mo agoAs an aside, Finns have said to me that in general Finland is open to adopting political & economic ideas from Sweden, letting Sweden be at the leading edge, with the caveat that first Sweden tries them out... and IF they work they might be cribbed by Finland. I don't know whether this attitude still prevails tho.
- rendall 10mo agoThe Nordic... or shall I say Scandinavian nations all crib from each other. Education, family policy, labor markets, digital government, environmental policy. Leadership just rotates depending on the issue.
- flexie 10mo agoThe Substack post takes a rather childish approach by confusing happiness with smiling and laughter. Personal safety, good health, financial stability, access to education, job security, low stress, and strong family and social ties do not necessarily make people smile or laugh. They create a sense of contentment. That is precisely where Scandinavian countries excel.
- phyzix5761 10mo agoI agree but does the happiness report actually measure all of that with their single question: Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten at the top. Suppose we say that the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. If the top step is 10 and the bottom step is 0, on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time?
- williamdclt 10mo agoYes? "The best possible life" covers pretty much exactly these socioeconomic factors for most people. Is there any of these factors that you think is not covered by this question?
- kjuulh 10mo agoFrom the provided question by WHR I can definitely see how Scandinavian countries rank so high. Being Danish myself my answer would immediately go into long term thinking and whether I would have a better life elsewhere and to me the answer is a clear no. Not financially, socially or politically. So yes, Denmark scores really high, but is it really measuring happiness. I dont know. That said I dont think measuring how often we laugh as a better metric amongst other thing, I can be perfectly "happy" without being outwardly joyous, maybe contentment is a better word. Or well being. But it isn't as catchy i guess
- euroderf 10mo agoHmm perhaps US Declaration of Independence could have cited "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Contentment".
- nephihaha 10mo agoDenmark is probably the best out of these countries in terms of winter (excluding Greenland and the Faroes), but the others get very little sunlight in winter, and have historical alcohol problems.
- timonofathens 10mo ago[dead]
- looperhacks 10mo agoDoes anybody take the World Happiness Report that serious? I think it's a neat and funny thing that probably has some footing in reality, but I never thought of it as hard science.
- nephihaha 10mo agoSame issue I have... The Nordic countries have high rates of alcoholism and depression (partly due to low sunlight in winter). They do or did have some things right, but it is questionable whether those still exist. Why are they continually claimed as happy?
- JimmyJamesJames 10mo agoI think what you think makes you happy is beset with methodological problems. Wealth, Rich, Successful are words cited as common “better life” in the blog, but that’s simply not true as the World Happiness Report demonstrates.
- oriettaxx 10mo agoand we are definitively not happy about it